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Flintstone
12-25-2009, 03:21 PM
Jun, you always sanction the same guys. She's just making thinks up, then her fellow dojo mates join the forum to back her up without further proof. And all of this is allowed.

I DO know you don't discuss your moderation with anyone else on Earth, or even explain yourself. So I don't expect nothing from you but a new ban.

O Sensei a Shin Tao priest? Oh my! And she insists on the Shin Tao thing, because "sorry, chinese characters for Shinto".

Man, ban me out of here. Fast. I beg.

akiy
12-25-2009, 03:45 PM
Hi Alejandro,

Please note that I am not asking anyone to moderate the subject of their argument but their tone. If you or anyone else wish to disprove the assertions that someone is making, please do so through respectful means discussing the issues raised rather than the person raising them.

As I have asked many to do over the years, please discuss the issues rather than the person.

Happy holidays,

-- Jun

PS: Please let's not hijack this particular thread into this discussion. If you or others wish to discuss this further, please start a new thread in the Feedback forum. Thank you.

Flintstone
12-25-2009, 03:57 PM
So the tone of Ron and Kent is disrespectful? Just to set up an standard. This girl has recently sent two of us old posters in a two-day ban and keeps on spreading her own truth. Looks like thst's her modus operandi. Ron, Kent, watch out.

akiy
12-25-2009, 04:09 PM
(Above posts moved from this thread (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17403).)

-- Jun

akiy
12-25-2009, 04:19 PM
Hi Alejandro,
So the tone of Ron and Kent is disrespectful? Just to set up an standard.
Over the years of participating in discussions on the Internet, I have a pretty good sense of where the tone of a discussion is leading. My warning in the thread was for folks in that thread to start moderating the tone of their posts before it reached a point where unessential hostility eclipsed constructive discussion. Should I have issue with a particular user having been too disrespectful in my subjective eyes, then I will contact them privately regarding the manner of their posts.

-- Jun

Maarten De Queecker
12-25-2009, 04:28 PM
So the tone of Ron and Kent is disrespectful? Just to set up an standard. This girl has recently sent two of us old posters in a two-day ban and keeps on spreading her own truth. Looks like thst's her modus operandi. Ron, Kent, watch out.
Is it really that difficult for you to disagree respectfully, even if a person is completely wrong? Even better, you can avoid the topic completely if you want. Saves you the unease of getting angry.

Flintstone
12-25-2009, 04:53 PM
Is it really that difficult for you to disagree respectfully, even if a person is completely wrong? Even better, you can avoid the topic completely if you want. Saves you the unease of getting angry.
Is this a "let her say whatever she wants" statement? Can I really tolerate her dojo mates calling me a "sexist" and a "women hater" and avoid the topic completely? Uhmmmm... No.

gdandscompserv
12-25-2009, 10:25 PM
Merry Christmas all!:D

thisisnotreal
12-25-2009, 10:50 PM
Ricky, Everyone, Merry Christmas !:D

Kevin Leavitt
12-26-2009, 07:56 AM
I've gotten into some pretty challenging and controversial conversations on aikiweb over the years. Never been banned or even asked to back down. Of course, I have walked the line I am sure!

There has also been alot of my own emotions and feelings that went without saying!

I have had a few PM controversial conversations, but very few as my philosophy is that this is a public forum for a reason and if you are going to say stuff publically, then you keep it public.

I always try and keep an degree of personal respect and not attack the person.

Here is the basic discourse I like to follow:

1. I think your wrong, not "you suck", or "your a X"
2. Here is why I think your wrong.
3. I believe I am right, here is why I believe I am right.

Of.

1. I don't agree, but why do you say X?
2. What do you base X on?

or

1. I don't understand when you say X? What does that mean?

Usually these type of questions and discourse do all the work you need to define the problem, get to the root of what is important and prove to the world without having to say "you suck" that the person is baseless, unqualified and if they keep on, they will dig themselves into a whole deeper and deeper.

Of course you will run into the poster from time to time who has been asked to leave the party, but simply does not have enough self respect, or cannot take a social clue that their welcome is worn out and they simply do not belong and/or they will continue to troll to stir up new folks that may not be on to their game yet!

Those folks, well I think there is not much you can do about them but ignore them and hope they eventually get bored and go home.

Sy Labthavikul
12-26-2009, 08:37 AM
May it never be said that Kevin Leavitt does not make a buttload of sense.

Ron Tisdale
12-26-2009, 08:46 AM
Hi Alejandro, just for the record, since my name was used, I have no issues whatsoever with how Jun moderates this board he so thoughtfully provides for us.

Best,
Ron

Alfonso
12-26-2009, 11:06 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p5d4e5e-7o#t=5m

something to chew on post Xmas; time linked for your consideration

SeiserL
12-26-2009, 12:00 PM
The man has more patience and tolerance than I do.

Flintstone
12-26-2009, 12:31 PM
Excuse me, Kevin, but my English is just mediocre. Did I read I was trolling? Again, if the answer is "no", please forgive my low level in foreign languages.

Ron, I just didn't see your post or Keith's to be more "tolerant" or "inoffensive" than mine, that's why I wrote that. Not wanting to stir you up.

And to all, I did not create this thread, nor did I intend to create a thread questioning Jun's moderation.

That girl just came to the forum, calling some of us meatheads for "grabbing too strong in tai no henko" or "not keeping connection as ukes", claiming O Sensei's priesthood in "Shin Tao" and a couple other things. Her dojo mates joined in and called me "sexist" and "women hater", while I was in a ban for writing "bullshit" in one post. And then, everything's ok. Suddenly I'm a meathead, sexist, woman hater and some more things... and still get a two-day ban!!

I guess that's the right way to moderate after all.

Not to mention that I may be trolling as I infere from here...

It was my pleasure to get to know some of you, guys. Now stay cool and have a great year. Farewell.

Ref.: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?p=248330#post248330

Ref.: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?p=248447#post248447

Ron Tisdale
12-26-2009, 02:05 PM
Suddenly I'm a meathead, sexist, woman hater and some more things... and still get a two-day ban!!

I'm sorry Alejandro, I simply was not aware of those statements. I personally find them dispicable, especially since one of the people involved routinely over reacts in defense of his special other (my opinion only). But I have no say in how that is moderated...faced with the same statements, I would probably find a way to voice my disproval. Without provoking Jun's ire.

Perhaps one thing to consider is that english is not your first language, which may put you at a disadvantage in defending yourself against such attacks. I'm sure, however, that Jun does take things like that into consideration.

For what it's worth, I hope you don't leave the board. I hope you take your time, what ever it might be, and continue posting, because I believe your perspectives, even when I don't agree with them, have value to me personally.

Best,
Ron

RED
12-26-2009, 03:44 PM
Excuse me, Kevin, but my English is just mediocre. Did I read I was trolling? Again, if the answer is "no", please forgive my low level in foreign languages.

Ron, I just didn't see your post or Keith's to be more "tolerant" or "inoffensive" than mine, that's why I wrote that. Not wanting to stir you up.

And to all, I did not create this thread, nor did I intend to create a thread questioning Jun's moderation.

That girl just came to the forum, calling some of us meatheads for "grabbing too strong in tai no henko" or "not keeping connection as ukes", claiming O Sensei's priesthood in "Shin Tao" and a couple other things. Her dojo mates joined in and called me "sexist" and "women hater", while I was in a ban for writing "bullshit" in one post. And then, everything's ok. Suddenly I'm a meathead, sexist, woman hater and some more things... and still get a two-day ban!!

I guess that's the right way to moderate after all.

Not to mention that I may be trolling as I infere from here...

It was my pleasure to get to know some of you, guys. Now stay cool and have a great year. Farewell.

Ref.: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?p=248330#post248330

Ref.: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?p=248447#post248447

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding,
but you are taking my statements out of context. What you typed is not reflective of my personal opinions or attitudes. I'm sorry you feel this way.

Good night.

thisisnotreal
12-26-2009, 05:04 PM
For what it's worth, I hope you don't leave the board. I hope you take your time, what ever it might be, and continue posting, because I believe your perspectives, even when I don't agree with them, have value to me personally.

Me too

Kevin Leavitt
12-26-2009, 10:19 PM
Alejandro. I am not implying that you are trolling. Not at all. Personally I have never had an issue with you at all. Just offering my own experiences with Jun and aikiweb in general. I too have had my issues with posters in the past and was simply offering my support in general. Some subjects can be very personal and emotional indeed!

ABLee
12-26-2009, 11:52 PM
hahahahaha! like my frien loh says...........yuo peple soooo funeeee an bodoh

Flintstone
12-27-2009, 06:17 AM
hahahahaha! like my frien loh says...........yuo peple soooo funeeee an bodoh
Bodoh sekali, Pak. Bodoh sekali.

Kevin, see? It's just my poor language skills. Sorry for tensing up my nerves.

Ryan Seznee
12-27-2009, 06:51 AM
That girl just came to the forum, calling some of us meatheads for "grabbing too strong in tai no henko" or "not keeping connection as ukes", claiming O Sensei's priesthood in "Shin Tao" and a couple other things. Her dojo mates joined in and called me "sexist" and "women hater", while I was in a ban for writing "bullshit" in one post. And then, everything's ok. Suddenly I'm a meathead, sexist, woman hater and some more things... and still get a two-day ban!!

It was my pleasure to get to know some of you, guys. Now stay cool and have a great year. Farewell.



You are taking a lot of things that were said out of context. If all you got banned for is writing the word "bullshit", then why weren't you banned again for this post? There was obviously more, but you are too angry at the situation to see. Jun read the same posts as everyone else and drew the conclusion that you, and only you, needed to be given a little time to cool off. Have you even considered that you might legitimately be offensive in the way in which you speak to others (as you said, this being a foreign language to you), not what you say?

Secondly, she never called you a meathead. Read the posts, she goes out of her way SEVERAL TIMES to say that she was referring to another person who was harassing her with private messages sent (not seen on the discussion boards).

Thirdly, she didn't "just" come to the site. She has been coming for over a year and posting less than a year. Whatever her opinion, why is it any business of yours? Let her spell "Shinto" as "xljjyiina" if she wants... it won't hurt anyone. Will it significantly impact your ability to train by knowing that xljjyiina is out there? Aikido is supposed to be the way of the peaceful and loving spirit, but all that happens on these threads is fights about spelling and antidotes.

L. Camejo
12-27-2009, 07:17 AM
Ok. I am sure certain folks here mean anecdote when they are saying antidote. Unless of course a bunch of people on Aikiweb have been poisoned. :)

On another note, I think it is good practice to maintain certain standards of spelling and grammar use on the site since many members come here to learn new things about Aikido and English may not be their first language.

In this case if we spell things wrong both in Japanese (Shin Tao instead of Shin To) and English ("antidote" instead of "anecdote") we are doing a serious disservice to our colleagues on the site who may actually be trying to learn something from the discussions.

If we strive for perfection in the :do: of Aikido, should this practice not be applied elsewhere? Even with perfect grammar and spelling we have disagreement on definitions of words. Why make things more difficult for communication?

LC

Flintstone
12-27-2009, 07:22 AM
Ryan, stop it. We all know you must defend your fiance.

She was implying it was me who was harassing her with privates and blah blah blah.

She can spell "Shinto" as "xljjyiina" if she wants? Really? Oh, she's been here for eight months now? Yes, then she has the right to spell it as she likes.

Aikido is supposed to be the way of the peaceful and loving spirit? You misread the message. No problem, it's not only you. You'll reach that stage when you went through all the years and experiences of O Sensei. Why you guys insist in building the house from the roof down?

And you, yes YOU, read the posts again. specially the ones marked with a yellow card and a red card. And those who they were in response to.

And cool down, we know it's difficult when defending someone's fiance, but that's blinding your mind.

Ryan Seznee
12-27-2009, 07:44 AM
...

Aikido is supposed to be the way of the peaceful and loving spirit? You misread the message. No problem, it's not only you. You'll reach that stage when you went through all the years and experiences of O Sensei. Why you guys insist in building the house from the roof down?



"The objective of Aikido is to polish one's mind and body to produce an individual of high integrity" -O'Sensei

My only goal in my training is just that, and to me this "roof" is all I wish to foster in my life, since if I can get that right everything else will fall into place. I brought this up because I feel you have lost sight of the ultimate goal of the training for the sake of one upping someone you will never meet on the internet. Who cares if you are correct in what you say, if you are starting or prolonging a conflict, you are not practicing Aikido.

I mentioned this to point out that aikiweb was made to foster aikido, which above all is made to improve integrity. This conflict you seem to have with red and myself is ALL you have been concerned with for the past week (as far as aikiweb is concerned). You have been arguing with us as much as possible for a week. IS IT WORTH IT?

Also, don't assume on the nature of my relationships, it makes things personal and is factually incorrect.

sorokod
12-27-2009, 10:08 AM
Alejandro

Please forgive me for being blunt. Presumably you are serious in your study of martial arts.
If so, you should ask yourself how did an aikibunny took your center and and unbalanced you in the way she did.

akiy
12-27-2009, 10:29 AM
Hi everyone,

It seems as though this thread has turned rather personal and disruptive, both of which I find rather unnecessary and unfortunate. I had hoped that people could keep this thread constructive and respectful; unfortunately, I am finding that this is not the case, so I am closing the thread.

If you have any thoughts that you wish to share with me directly, please send them via private message (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/private.php?do=newpm&u=1) and I may add your thoughts to this thread later.

In the mean time, I wanted to state a few factual things regarding the moderation system here. When you receive an infraction warning or a ban, you and only you will see the "red" or "yellow" icon in the posts -- no one else will. Likewise, only you will see in your profile the warnings and bans that you have received -- no one else will. So, should you look at a post or someone's profile and you do not see such infractions, that doesn't necessarily mean that they were not warned nor banned over such.

I do not quite have the time at this very moment to add more thoughts, but I will do so later today.

-- Jun