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MM
12-23-2009, 09:45 AM
Thanks go out to the reviewer and to Tom Campbell for making note of it in another forum.

http://www.transformativemartialarts.com/2008/11/13/key-points-to-train-aunkai/

Well worth reading. I'll mention some parts here.


Aunkai is not designed to train technique, but there are certain techniques that come naturally from the shapes and method of movement.


This is one of the parts that I find really emphasizes just how to start working towards "takemusu aiki". The spontaneous generation of techniques. Once you start training the internal body, the structure, frame, etc, then you find that you're centered, relaxed, and better structured than the other person, so techniques start to just happen. The good part is that training in the Aunkai method or other similar methods pares down the years to get good. I'm not saying you don't have to put in the time, just that instead of 20-40, you're looking at 5-10.


Extension in the arms ties them in to the spine. To work this you need to extend through all your fingers.


What was it that the Budo book said. Something about Bring Ki to your Fingers? These methods (ex. Aunkai) actually train specifically to do that.


The spine itself is pulled up from the top, and pulled down from below. It feels as if the arms create a funnel that channels force down to the spine and torso. The spine itself has the sensation of being sucked into the pelvis, which acts like a basin catching the downwards flow of force, draining it down through the legs.


One of Tohei's points was to Keep Weight Underside. Sound familiar? When you work on things like flow of force down into the ground, spine being pulled down, arms relaxed and connected to the spine, etc, it gives a feeling of having a "weight underside" your arms.


Related to the cross in the chest is the idea of maintaining force in six directions, up-down, forwards-back and left right. This helps you maintain balance in movement and the ability to change your shape or technique rapidly and easily. You can start to think of this within your spine, then out to the ends of your limbs. If you have a lot of intention pushing in one direction, make sure that you also have the intention to send an equal force in the other direction.


Some of the doka refer to omnidirectional perceptions. One says something about even if there's only one person in front of you, imagine that you're surrounded. Well, if you add in all six directions in this type of training, you're actually training for an entire circle around you. So, even if you're working with only one partner, you are training your body in an omnidirectional way.


To get a sense of the ground coming up you need to have the idea of opening and giving your strength back to the ground.


Yin Yang. In Yo. The method by which there is contradictory forces flowing in the body. Never is there just a one way flow. I make an example of the Ki test for unbendable arm. Most imagine water flowing out their arm and hand, but really there should be a two way flow in the arm/hand, one going outwards and one going inwards -- at the same time. This kind of contradictory force happens throughout the entire body in a dual nature. Fire and Water. Didn't Ueshiba mention something like this in a doka?


Keep thinking about alignment, and let go of unnecessary tension. Relax as much as possible, give up as much strength as possible while you keep the postural requirements.


Isn't it amazing that Ueshiba was so strong, physically, before he met Takeda, yet that strength did nothing for him when he met Takeda. Tomiki's strong judo background did nothing for him when he met Ueshiba. It wasn't about being "physically" strong. Instead it was about being "budo" strong. Having a trained, structured body that moved and worked differently than most other martial artists. You give up strength to get strength. No tension but a relaxed body that has power. Ueshiba didn't use physical strength when he let Tenryu push him. If he had used physical strength, Tenryu would have won. No, instead, Ueshiba used the "secret of aiki" and used Internal Strength, Internal Skills, and a Structured Budo body.

chillzATL
12-23-2009, 10:54 AM
Thanks for the post!

ChrisMoses
12-23-2009, 11:54 AM
One of Tohei's points was to Keep Weight Underside. Sound familiar? When you work on things like flow of force down into the ground, spine being pulled down, arms relaxed and connected to the spine, etc, it gives a feeling of having a "weight underside" your arms.


I always found that "weight underside" tended to created a heavy sensation in most people. It seems to emphasize earth over heaven. The sensation developed through exercises like ten-chi-jin is more like becoming denser, so that there is more mass behind ones movements in whatever direction you choose to move that mass, rather than simply down and weighted. I think this is one of the key differences I've found in my own training. Weight underside *generally* seems to slow people down but give them stability. The Aunkai paradigm seems to lead to stability but with the potential for great speed without losing connection/structure.

Not a disagreement Mark, just some conversation.

MM
12-23-2009, 04:13 PM
I always found that "weight underside" tended to created a heavy sensation in most people. It seems to emphasize earth over heaven. The sensation developed through exercises like ten-chi-jin is more like becoming denser, so that there is more mass behind ones movements in whatever direction you choose to move that mass, rather than simply down and weighted. I think this is one of the key differences I've found in my own training. Weight underside *generally* seems to slow people down but give them stability. The Aunkai paradigm seems to lead to stability but with the potential for great speed without losing connection/structure.

Not a disagreement Mark, just some conversation.

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the post. Do you think that when people work on "weight underside", they use primarily a one way conduit. Sort of like everything going to earth which causes them to be "heavy". Or as you said emphasizing earth over heaven. Do you think if they practiced a two way conduit (contradictory forces), they would gain that potential for speed and mobility?

gregstec
12-23-2009, 04:18 PM
Thanks go out to the reviewer and to Tom Campbell for making note of it in another forum.

http://www.transformativemartialarts.com/2008/11/13/key-points-to-train-aunkai/

Well worth reading. I'll mention some parts here.

This is one of the parts that I find really emphasizes just how to start working towards "takemusu aiki". The spontaneous generation of techniques. Once you start training the internal body, the structure, frame, etc, then you find that you're centered, relaxed, and better structured than the other person, so techniques start to just happen. The good part is that training in the Aunkai method or other similar methods pares down the years to get good. I'm not saying you don't have to put in the time, just that instead of 20-40, you're looking at 5-10.

What was it that the Budo book said. Something about Bring Ki to your Fingers? These methods (ex. Aunkai) actually train specifically to do that.

One of Tohei's points was to Keep Weight Underside. Sound familiar? When you work on things like flow of force down into the ground, spine being pulled down, arms relaxed and connected to the spine, etc, it gives a feeling of having a "weight underside" your arms.

Some of the doka refer to omnidirectional perceptions. One says something about even if there's only one person in front of you, imagine that you're surrounded. Well, if you add in all six directions in this type of training, you're actually training for an entire circle around you. So, even if you're working with only one partner, you are training your body in an omnidirectional way.

Yin Yang. In Yo. The method by which there is contradictory forces flowing in the body. Never is there just a one way flow. I make an example of the Ki test for unbendable arm. Most imagine water flowing out their arm and hand, but really there should be a two way flow in the arm/hand, one going outwards and one going inwards -- at the same time. This kind of contradictory force happens throughout the entire body in a dual nature. Fire and Water. Didn't Ueshiba mention something like this in a doka?

Isn't it amazing that Ueshiba was so strong, physically, before he met Takeda, yet that strength did nothing for him when he met Takeda. Tomiki's strong judo background did nothing for him when he met Ueshiba. It wasn't about being "physically" strong. Instead it was about being "budo" strong. Having a trained, structured body that moved and worked differently than most other martial artists. You give up strength to get strength. No tension but a relaxed body that has power. Ueshiba didn't use physical strength when he let Tenryu push him. If he had used physical strength, Tenryu would have won. No, instead, Ueshiba used the "secret of aiki" and used Internal Strength, Internal Skills, and a Structured Budo body.

Hi Mark,

Great post - I will post some more specific comments later when I have more time to compose.

Greg

thisisnotreal
12-24-2009, 01:11 AM
What was it that the Budo book said. Something about Bring Ki to your Fingers? These methods (ex. Aunkai) actually train specifically to do that.

That is funny you mention that.
I came across something that resulted in;
Ahhh gotcha!...I think I know exactly what you're talking about.

"#$"" Wang was pulling circulation to his hands with just that? :freaky:

I hate fat dudes, its so not fair.

<looks at the long road ahead>
heh
well; the thread was good and there were some good nuts&bits. check it. aah..memories of a kinder gentler era.


One of Tohei's points was to Keep Weight Underside.
one lesson; perhaps too remedial to mention; is to avoid the 'slumping' or 'pinching off' of a return flow in the body. ... to not do this required keeping the underside muscles engaged but not flexing. hard to describe. 'open' or 'engaged'. body wide.