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Melchizedek
12-13-2009, 02:05 AM
Irimi __Meaning: Entering or putting in the body.

Irimi (ee-ree-mee) is the second pillar of Aikido (Aikido techniques are structured around six main pillars). Irimi involves entering deeply around or behind an attack to defuse or neutralize the attack. The concept of irimi teaches one to blend with or enter into an opponent's attack to become one with the opponent's movement and leaving the opponent with nowhere to strike. This movement is utilized during the moment of your opponent's attack. To complete the movement, you move out of your opponent's line of attack to your opponent's shikaku, or blind spot. When executed properly, you can strike your opponent with great force, combining his attacking momentum and your forward movement.

The entering principle is basic to most Aikido movements as the postures and movements in Aikido contain quite a few oblique stances which are adapted from Sōjutsu (spear fighting).

In Aikido, we have numerous examples of techniques exhibiting the concepts of yin and yang. Irimi and tenkan are an example. Tenkan is the motion of turning (yin) and irimi is the motion of entering (yang).

Irimi is one of two motions Aikido students perform in the role of nage. Practicing irimi will help the Aikido student develop Hara, balance, and groundedness.

(The above quoted from Wikipedia's "Irimi" page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irimi).)

what are the 1st. 2nd. (Irimi) 3rd. 4th. 5th. and 6th. ? if any one know kindly help thanks.

ChrisHein
12-13-2009, 11:18 AM
1. Shiho nage (four direction throw)
2. Irimi nage (entering throw)
3. Kaiten nage (turn causing throw)
4.Kokyu ho (rhythmic techniques)
5. Osae waza (Pinning techniques)
6. Ushiro waza (movment to the rear)

odudog
12-13-2009, 12:22 PM
You can irimi and still be in front of uke and you don't have to diffuse the attack. I was teaching this today at my dojos private lesson time slot.

Carsten Möllering
12-13-2009, 01:02 PM
Hi

I know the thaugth of Aikido being structured by six pillars only from books of John Stevens.

Where does this thinking originate? Where does it come from? Are there other teachers who teach this?

Carsten

Melchizedek
12-13-2009, 04:37 PM
1. Shiho nage (four direction throw)
2. Irimi nage (entering throw)
3. Kaiten nage (turn causing throw)
4.Kokyu ho (rhythmic techniques)
5. Osae waza (Pinning techniques)
6. Ushiro waza (movment to the rear)

Hi Chris Hein,

thank you for the enlightenment that is something that i do every day that i don't know if my thoughts are wrong? Irimi and tenkan should the basis, basic movements of techniques like we use to example, we use Irimi nage and Omote nage in post manuscript the old Aikikai since K. Tohei Sensie taught in the Philipines 1963, the irimi nage & Omote nage we still practice them as variations and more.

and about 1. Shiho nage moves are (I) & (T)

2. Irimi nage of course movement of lateral arm swing to execute it sometimes Irimi nage is being mistaken as Kokkyu nage Irimi and other diction Tenkan.

3. Kaiten nage have two diction's to (I) & (T)

4. Kokyu ho (rhythmic techniques) or blending motion or leading movement to apply tecq. to a give situation. with I*T

5. Osae waza (Pinning techniques) pinning, you can also pin them in I*T movements

6. Ushiro waza (movment to the rear)[/QUOTE] can be applied I*T as well

kindly Elaborate.? co`z i still have things in mind that is not clear

respectfully Yours

Melchizedek
12-13-2009, 05:01 PM
P.s.
i looked at Utube.com there is no Omote nage; its like best describe it as / attk. Yokumenuchi tecq. Omote nage; same as shiho nage`s entry but this one., you hold s/he Hiji (elbow) w/ ur right arm, uke`s right elbow and four-arm slightly rap around his chin, then the other arm left hand (ur arm) at his left shoulder pulling down his shoulder in a downward circular motion, along w/ ur right arm pushing forward, and ur left leg (behind) will about quarter circle away from the Ukemi.

i hope that this helps.

respectfully Yours

ChrisHein
12-13-2009, 08:27 PM
There are many approaches to understanding Aikido. You'll find your own, probably several times over; I know I have.

I don't know too much about the 6 pillars of Aikido, it doesn't seem to be that commonly talked about. I'm sure it's just another way of organizing the material we find in Aikido. However the organization is not the important part, it's the work that we are trying to organize that is important.

Don't look at the finger pointing at the moon, because you'll miss all of the moon's heavenly glory...er... something like that...

Melchizedek
12-14-2009, 06:17 AM
There are many approaches to understanding Aikido. You'll find your own, probably several times over; I know I have.

I don't know too much about the 6 pillars of Aikido, it doesn't seem to be that commonly talked about. I'm sure it's just another way of organizing the material we find in Aikido. However the organization is not the important part, it's the work that we are trying to organize that is important.

Don't look at the finger pointing at the moon, because you'll miss all of the moon's heavenly glory...er... something like that...

hi Chris Hein,

im just asking if there are more elaborate meaning co`z i like to get from the bottom of this, in dont care how deep or how high, it mite be ontologically speaking, i just want to learn in continues proceeding regarding this, just for the sake of learning.

the moon i like the moon but i like to know the other dimensions of our universe.
:do:

Carsten Möllering
12-14-2009, 07:03 AM
I don't know too much about the 6 pillars of Aikido, it doesn't seem to be that commonly talked about.
Again my question:
What is it about?

I'm practicing for over 15 years now and those "6 pillars" didn't cross my way.

I would be very gratefull to learn what this is all about!

@ John:

When you speak about "irimi" and "tenkan" do you refer to "omote" and "ura" versions of a technique or do you speak about the movements in the entrance or the technique itself?
In our terminology e.g. you can start an omote technique with a tenkan entrance.

Carsten

Melchizedek
12-14-2009, 09:15 AM
Again my question:
What is it about?

I'm practicing for over 15 years now and those "6 pillars" didn't cross my way.

I would be very gratefull to learn what this is all about!

@ John:

When you speak about "irimi" and "tenkan" do you refer to "omote" and "ura" versions of a technique or do you speak about the movements in the entrance or the technique itself?
In our terminology e.g. you can start an omote technique with a tenkan entrance.

Carsten

hi Carsten Möllering,

I to was asking the same Q? and

When you speak about "irimi" and "tenkan" do you refer to "omote" and "ura" versions of a technique / yes.

about I*T & O*U are same right! / variations that i was referring to.

I'm practicing for over 15 years now and those "6 pillars" didn't cross my way. same here 14 yrs and 6 pillars I wud like to know more about it.

akiy
12-14-2009, 10:28 AM
Quick note that the section on "Irimi" in the first post of this thread was taken from Wikipedia's article on "irimi":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irimi

-- Jun

jonreading
12-14-2009, 11:42 AM
1. Shiho nage (four direction throw)
2. Irimi nage (entering throw)
3. Kaiten nage (turn causing throw)
4.Kokyu ho (rhythmic techniques)
5. Osae waza (Pinning techniques)
6. Ushiro waza (movment to the rear)

I don't have the book in front of me to confirm, but these look like the 6 pillars John Stevens describes in Secrets of Aikido [cannot confirm title...]. I think there is some room for variation of the specific names, but the principles are solid foundational elements to specifically discuss in training; I believe Mr. Stevens refines his 6 pillars to nine in another book, The Philosophy of Aikido.

I personally like these pillars and find they make sense disecting technique. I also use the structure to help my class instruction.
I do not know if I have ever seen a specific breakdown of foundation elements that was consistent across aikido, although in interviews several Shihan lay out what elements they feel are important to training, and the time in training the element become more or less important.

Charles Hill
12-14-2009, 04:10 PM
They come from Rinjiro Shirata. I do not know if Shirata Sensei used the word "pillar" or not but his book, written with John Stevens and entitled Aikido The Way of Harmony, follows this basic scheme.

It has been interesting for me to learn that the history of Aikido teaching begins with the various students of the Founder attempting to structure what they learned. Morihei Ueshiba taught rather freely it seems and the students found they could not duplicate this when they themselves became teachers. I believe that is why we have some many "styles" of aikido now, even though them all stem from the same source.

Prof. Stevens' comment on this is that we are not likely geniuses like Shirata Sensei was, so for us, Shirata Sensei created certain forms.

a side note - kotegaeshi is considered a kaiten technique

Charles

jbblack
12-14-2009, 04:56 PM
I don't have the book in front of me to confirm, but these look like the 6 pillars John Stevens describes in Secrets of Aikido [cannot confirm title...]. I think there is some room for variation of the specific names, but the principles are solid foundational elements to specifically discuss in training; I believe Mr. Stevens refines his 6 pillars to nine in another book, The Philosophy of Aikido..

From Secrets of Aikido: The Six Pillars

Shiho Nage = Gratitude
Irimi = Entering
Kaiten = Open and Turn
Kokyu = Breath Power
Osae Waza = Firm Control
Ushiro Waza = Sixth Sense

Then there is RIAI = The Integrated System.

Re reading a Mary Heiny interview in: Aikido in America.

"O'Sensei said that aikido waza were michi shirube, "signposts along the way." It's something for you to use to direct your attention to what you're supposed to be studying.

So it seems that the pillars are more than the form.

Cheers,
Jeff

Melchizedek
12-17-2009, 11:00 PM
Riai - The Harmony of Principles

Riai refers to the mutual principles of movement found in Traditional Aikido training. O-Sensei created a trinity of Tai-jutsu (the empty-handed techniques of Aikido), Aiki-ken (sword) and Aiki-jo (staff). The sword (in practice, the Bokken or wooden sword) and Jo (staff) are both traditional weapons in Japanese Budo. But O-Sensei developed the use of these two weapons into something very much his own.

(above Quote is From http://www.aiki-shuren-dojo.com/aikido/riai.html) (http://www.aiki-shuren-dojo.com/aikido/riai.html)

Thanks Jeff Black

RED
12-18-2009, 06:45 PM
okay... I always thought if you followed the weapons work you are finding the main pillar of Aikido technique. It all is swordwork, with or without the sword.

Jon Marshall
12-29-2009, 01:30 PM
a side note - kotegaeshi is considered a kaiten technique


Yep, that makes sense to me.
What about Tenshinage? Kokyu or irimi?

Jon

sakumeikan
03-12-2010, 04:10 AM
You can irimi and still be in front of uke and you don't have to diffuse the attack. I was teaching this today at my dojos private lesson time slot.
Dear Mike,
Without seeing what you are teaching it is difficult for me to ascertain what you were doing in your private class.
Since irimi is entering into an opponents attack [avoiding direct contact ] and usually done with the objective of entering the opponents 'blind spot ' or behind the guy I fail to see how you remain facing your partner.You may be at side/rear of partner but not in front.Why irimi if the resulting irimi movement from you means you are relatively speaking in the same position as before?
As far as your statement that you dont have to diffuse the attack of you partner this runs contrary to Aikido principles.Aikido seeks to neutralise the attack whether by tenkan /irimi then controlling the situation.If you do not diffuse/redirect the attackers energy you have to be physically more powerful than your partner.By neutralising partners power , you can initiate a waza with relatively little effort on your part.

Janet Rosen
03-12-2010, 11:10 AM
Since irimi is entering into an opponents attack [avoiding direct contact ] and usually done with the objective of entering the opponents 'blind spot ' or behind the guy I fail to see how you remain facing your partner.

I'm not Mike... but I do know that I've done plenty of direct entry irimi nages that are very effective and have nothing to do with going to the blind spot.

JO
03-13-2010, 07:26 AM
I'm not Mike... but I do know that I've done plenty of direct entry irimi nages that are very effective and have nothing to do with going to the blind spot.

I agree with you in that I have also done lots of direct irimi nages, but I would say that you are still going to the blind spot or behind the uke. However you get there by going through him rather than around him.