Washing Belts

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[Erik]

There was an interesting thread over on e-budo:

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=10302

I thought I'd tackle the same question over here. The question is do you wash your belt and why or why not?

For the record, I've been told to never wash my belt for 3 reasons:

1. Ye olde white to brown to black to white story.
2. It's tradition (not exactly the same as #1).
3. Washing removes your ki from the belt.

That last one is kind of true in a warped sort of way. Interestingly, it must have taken because I've never washed one of mine. Honestly, I kind of like a ratty belt that looks like it's been through a war or two.

So do you wash your belt?

[Bronson]

The only time I've washed any of my belts is when I first got them, to set the dye. After that, nope. I don't think anybody in our dojo does for reasons #2 and #3.

2. It's tradition (not exactly the same as #1). 3. Washing removes your ki from the belt.



Mostly I don't because my sensei and sempai don't.

Bronson

[JJF]

I sweat a lot. My belt get soaked. It smells BAD!!. I don't want to be too repulsive (at least not my odour ;)). I wash my belt.

It's white. Perhaps I will change my mind when I get a black belt one day to prevent loss of color. Time will show. If I stop washing it I will definately start airing it outside in the wind between trainingsessions.

[Olaf]

Dear fellow Budoka,
I don't know where and how you train, but I do sweat a lot during class (when training and not teaching). I wash my belt (and hakama) once in a while for the same reason as Jorgen just explained.
On reason #3 - good lough! Thank you! If "my Ki" was in the belt, not only would I (have to) wear it all day, I would wear two of them! (Much like H.Ikeda Sensei's "power connectors" he pulled out of his Gi from in front of the lower abdomen, BUT he was joking!).

Happy training - and please wash your stuff once in a while!

Olaf

P.S. Some Yudansha don't (have to) wash their black belts (or hakama) -- it's not because you don't see them sweating on the mat anymore, is it? (BAD REMARK...I know)

[Greg Jennings]

The only reason I've heard for not washing an obi is that they are prone to shrink badly.

Best,

[Chuck.Gordon]

Originally posted by Erik
For the record, I've been told to never wash my belt for 3 reasons:

1. Ye olde white to brown to black to white story.

Myth. Urban legend (look up Peter Urban and his Tales of the Dojo for that reference)

2. It's tradition (not exactly the same as #1).

That's the only good reason not to wash it (unless you use a kaku obi, which should be handwashed very gently lest it disintigrate and turn into a limp span of shapeless wool).

3. Washing removes your ki from the belt.

So ... if you take a bath does you ki go down the drain?

;)

Chuck

[joan]

For what it's worth--

I've washed and dried my belts many times over the years, and haven't noticed any shrinkage.

I didn't notice any ki changes... If #3 is true, would my washing machine be like the hara of the house? And what about the septic system?

Joan

[giriasis]

I always thought that the belt might fall apart in the washer. (I have a real cheap one from my first gi [really cheap]}.

I hand wash mine though and let it hang dry even though it still is pretty stained.

[Bob Heffner]

For reason #3
If you wash the belt and the Ki goes into the water, what would happen if you drank the water. Would that put the KI back into your body? What would happen if I drank everyone's wash water? :-)

Would I have super Ki! :eek:

For the record I'll skip the wash water drinking and keep what Ki I got! :cool:

Bob

[Erik]

Originally posted by LOEP
Snipped!


You know, I thought you might have something to say on this one. ;)

You know, #3 is partially why I jumped all over Bruce on that other thread. That kind of ki just permeates some places.

[Arianah]

Originally posted by Erik
2. It's tradition
What is the tradition with this? Is there an actual origin, or is it just something that our instuctors did, and their instructors did, and their instructors did, etc.? It can't go that far back, since, as my limited knowledge understands it, the use of belts as sign of rank is a relatively recent integration, right? :confused:

[Chuck.Gordon]

Originally posted by Arianah

What is the tradition with this? Is there an actual origin, or is it just something that our instuctors did, and their instructors did, and their instructors did, etc.? It can't go that far back, since, as my limited knowledge understands it, the use of belts as sign of rank is a relatively recent integration, right? :confused:

Arianah,

There's an old dojo legend that says if you wash your obi, you wash out all your knowledge. It's persistent, pervasive and wrong. The story goes that back in the old days, everybody just wore white belts till they got all grungy and dark, eventually black. When you belt was black (by which time, in MY belt-wearing experience, the thing would be a rag anyway), you were an expert.

It's bogus. Lots of folks like the romantic sound and feel of the tale, though.

Nobody wore anything resembling the modern judogi/karategi and obi much before the late 19th, early 20th century anyway (and there's some good evidence there was western influence on its design, too!) ...

Like so many other cherished dojo traditions, it's new, romantic and not necessarily the truth.

It is, however a neat tale!

Chuck

[Erik]

Originally posted by Arianah
What is the tradition with this? Is there an actual origin, or is it just something that our instuctors did, and their instructors did, and their instructors did, etc.? It can't go that far back, since, as my limited knowledge understands it, the use of belts as sign of rank is a relatively recent integration, right? :confused:

Chuck will certainly know more than I, but from what I've read the use of belts came into play late in the 1800's from Kano. Colored belts came into play some time in the 30's in Europe (they were not a creation by us decadent folks in the US). Hard to have much tradition in such a small amount of time.

The reason I posted the reasons I did was that they are basically BS but I'd heard them a number of times. What was even more funny is that I've discounted them all, even told people to wash their belts, but never done it myself. I find myself to be amusingly contradictory at times.

[guest1234]

Ah... it's springtime, and there's nothing closer to a Flight Surgeon's heart than the chance to discuss the germ theory of disease and the importance of washing (hands, gis, and other items):D

I wash my gi and obi every day, and when I wore a hakama regularly I washed it once a week. I have also been accused of being a clean freak:freaky: but there it is. I also sweat like a pig.

I would encourage you all to wash all items on a regular basis (ie, before folks move away from you on the mat and the dog runs from your workout bag... if in doubt, ask your wife...). My belts shrank, I just buy ones up 1 or 2 sizes.

If for any of reasons 1-3 you do not wash your obi, please please please wash your hands after tying it and before training. Thanks. Also, everyone should be washing their hands before training, if the sneeze/cough/bleed/etc on them during class (excuse yourself and go wash, we all thank you for it), and for their own sake after class, especially if you will be adjusting contact lenses, going out for a snack, etc.

This public health message brought to you free of charge...

[lt-rentaroo]

Hello,

Colleen, are you saying that when I get sick it's because of germs and not because I washed my obi, which resulted in loss of Ki and subsequent weakening on my body's life force? And after washing the obi, I don't have to harmonize with a tree to replenish my Ki in an effort to prevent illness?

Hey, I just covered three different threads with that.

On a more serious note, I'm pretty certain that I've never washed an obi. The middle section of my body doesn't seem to sweat much and for whatever reason, my obi has never appeared to need a good washing. But, Colleen makes a good point and so I'm going to start hand washing my obi whenever I wash my hakama.

[ndiegel]

I washed my white belt, until it started to rip. Really, until probably my next belt, when I can get a higher quality one, I won't wash it. I've never really needed to before. My gi however...ugh. :D Always wash your gi.

[guest1234]

I'm not saying belts HAVE to be washed, just one's hands after tying it. :D I really don't want to interfere with anyone's beliefs on Ki, or tradition. Just want to cut down on germs.

Most folks don't sweat onto their belt much (some of us do), so until it starts to really smell you are probably OK... if it smells, it is time for a new belt, or some Tide misogi on warm/cold and regular spin for the belt...

But handwashing would be nice. I don't have to touch other's belts much, so don't mind that they look terrible, but object when the hands that tie it them move to my hands/neck/jaw etc. I mean, how long would you go without washing sheets or towels, etc... on second thought, do not answer that, any of you:eek: Those belts roll around on the mat, which in some places is not quite as clean as it sould be. Those hands that touched all those other hands (some cleaner than others) in class now reach down to untie that belt... along with Ki, there are probably a few million colony counts of bacteria building up on those belts...

[Tom]

I always wash my belt along with my gi. I'm a 'clean freak' too and I like to be sure that myself and my kit are as clean as they possibly could be before going into a dojo.

[deepsoup]

Originally posted by Tom
I always wash my belt along with my gi. I'm a 'clean freak' too and I like to be sure that myself and my kit are as clean as they possibly could be before going into a dojo.

Thats great advice, depending on what colour your belt is! I had my red belt sneak into the washing machine with my gi a few years ago (I think it curled up and hid in one sleeve). Everyone at the dojo was very impressed by my lurid pink gi at the next session! :eek: :D

Sean
x

[Pam Callea]

Hi there,
I’m always learning new things at this forum! Had no idea about the “reasons” one doesn’t wash their belt. I thought folks didn’t wash their belts was because it shrank too much (mine did anyway). I’ve found that if I tie some string to each end after washing, then attach a bungee on each end of the string and re-stretch between two posts or down a banister, letting it air-dry, I get about 3 inches back. I'm sure I'm compromising the threads & weaving in the belt to some degree. I do sweat a lot, but not enough thru my gi that it soaks my belt. I still have to wash it now and again, just not good at handling that “dirty” look. Oh well, so much for tradition. Being so new to Aikido, haven't even found my Ki, let alone able to wash it. And if I ever get to a black belt level, I think I'd want a new belt by then anyway.

[Erik]

Originally posted by deepsoup
Thats great advice, depending on what colour your belt is! I had my red belt sneak into the washing machine with my gi a few years ago (I think it curled up and hid in one sleeve). Everyone at the dojo was very impressed by my lurid pink gi at the next session! :eek: :D


That's a Gene Lebell trick and he can wear whatever color he wants.

There's a picture of him here:

http://www.genelebell.com/news.asp

[Arianah]

Why are all of your belts shrinking? Mine didn't very much. Just wash it (and your gi) on cold/cold, and if you put it in the dryer, put it on the lowest heat setting available. That will minimize shrinking.

[Amendes]

I have never washed any of my belts.

However I was never told not to.

I just figured on the following reasons.

1. Traditionally there were no belts, but wariors used to have a (ohh man I cant remember the word for it.. I dont think sash is the word neither but it maybe,..) Anyway they used to wipe there hands on it and it would get dirtyer over periods of battle. Evidently you could tell how experienced they were by looking at their "sash?"

Thats the first story I was told.

And second.

2. I don't want to see what happens when a belt tangles around the spinning thing in the washing mashing.
(Yes Spinning Thing!, Im relly at a lose for words today.)

[PeterR]

Originally posted by Amendes
Traditionally there were no belts, but wariors used to have a (ohh man I cant remember the word for it.. I dont think sash is the word neither but it maybe,..) Anyway they used to wipe there hands on it and it would get dirtyer over periods of battle. Evidently you could tell how experienced they were by looking at their "sash?"

That's a new one - A+ for imagination.

Not picking on you Andrew - just in a mood. ;)

Trying to imagine neophyte warriors trampling on their obi to try an intimidate their opponents.

[Edward]

Well, I think it's a combination of no. 1, 2 and 3 :)

I myself never wash my belt because of the tradition, but if it gets really dirty and smelly, the hell with the tradition. It's just not dirty enough yet. I do wash my gi daily, though.

And as far as germs go, Colleen, I wouldn't worry so much about my belt germs in a dojo full of smelly feet when I have quite often to stick my sweaty face to these sweat covered mats when being pinned. Aikido is disgusting sometimes, no?

Cheers,
Edward

[erikmenzel]

My first belt I washed. That was kind of a mistake as it shrunk, got wrinkly and turned ugly.

After that I never washed my belt again, but to dry it properly I hang it in the sun (in summertime) which keeps it cleaner (maybe germs hate sunlight??) and also bleaches it back to white again. (For those wondering, at our club we dont use any other belt than white, not for beginners, not for advanced and not for teachers).

Concerning other hygene topics raised here:
1) we clean the mats before every training (as part of our cleaning the dojo before every training).
2) we clean our feet before training (and use zori to reach the mat)
3) everyone is expected to train in a clean gi (and those who forget to do so, are told to do this in a friendly manner), consequently a lot of our club members have multiple gi (four of five is not unheard off)
4) most people take a shower afterwards.

To us these are just normal things, not strict rules.

[Tim Griffiths]

I grew up in one of them thar 'coloured belt' aikido clubs, that had the tradition of dying the belt after each grading, rather than buying a new one. This led to some interesting shades of green and blue.

I still use the same belt I started with, and wash it whenever I wash my hakama. A couple of years ago it got to be more of a ratty grey-purple belt, so I sewed up the ends and redyed it (Noted Ego Alert: Suddenly I looked like one of them newbie yudansha again - I'm sure my aikido got worse until I'd washed the belt again a few times).

In merry olde Englande I could go 2-3 classes without washing my gi. Here in sunny Israel you really have to wash your gi after each class.

Tim

[Tony Peters]

I live in a warm climate and I sweat I always hang my belt up to air out after class. Since I've switched to Judo I'm back to being a white belt and it gets real dirty (Judo people grab the belt and anything else) and at times bloody. Washing it is a weekly affair when I'm training. Hygene is very important in Judo.

[Gopher Boy]

Hygeine is number 1 - I agree. Without much experience, I am of course eager to follow traditions (even silly ones) in an attempt to immerse myself in Aikido. However, cleanliness and hygeine will always come first.

I tend to sweat a bit too but have found a great deodorant (speedstick) and I always wear a t-shirt under my gi. This means that I can use it for a few training sessions (the gi - not the shirt!) and then wash it on the weekend. As for belts - being a beginner I don't much know but I have a good quality one and can't forsee me needing to wash it. This is for two reasons - one the t-shirt and two - I will hopefull be out of it before too long. (It is only white!). As for my pants - I wash them as often as possible!


Phill.

[batemanb]

Here in Tokyo, I wash my belt once a week, mainly because the amount of sweating that I do in the temperature here. I do of course wash my gi after every training session, there is no way that it would be fit to wear otherwise;)

[Kevin Masters]

I was wondering what was up with this tradition. The idea of all those crawling bacteria swarming around my waist is kind of creepy.

"Are those midi-cloriates, master Qui-Gon, Sir?" Heh.

Does anybody know how ultra-violet light would affect germs? Maybe you could hang your belt in a black light to kill the bacteria but keep your nice "Ki-Power" stains.

As for me and MY obi, when it starts to smell I'm washing it.

Please forgive my revisiting this thread so late. I'm a Kyu-less newbie :-)

[diesel]

Does anybody know how ultra-violet light would affect germs? Maybe you could hang your belt in a black light to kill the bacteria but keep your nice "Ki-Power" stains.
I doubt seriously UV light will kill off bacteria. Otherwise you could just leave it outside in the sun.

Eric

[Edward]

Well, to say that bangkok is the hottest city in the world is probably an understatement :) I do wash my gi after each training, but I have never washed my belt. I just leave it to dry. It doesn't smell like roses but it doesn't stink either. As for the bacteria, I don't think that a 21st century samurai should be scared be some invisible micro-organisms ;)

[MikeE]

I have a simple rule:

If the obi smells like peoples' feet...wash it.

[MattRice]

I don't wash the belt. I've heard it said not to, but who knows why.

When I was in karate, they said don't wash the belt.

Have you ever heard not to let your belt touch the floor though? In my karate dojo, our teacher directed (verbally and by example) that if your belt comes loose during kumite, get rid of it and continue to protect yourself. Once I did this in a tourney and one of the corner judges leapt at me screaming (eyes bulging, veins poppin' the works) "That belt doesn't touch the floor, son!!!" I sheepishly picked it back up and tied it on, quick.

So...what's the deal?

[Kevin Masters]

I think I remember something of that back in my teens when I studied Shito-Ryu. It's like the flag: don't let it touch the ground, display it at night only with a light on it...

So when you do ukemi doesn't your belt touch the floor? Or how about those knuckle push-ups we had to do? The tips of my belt surely were on the floor then. LOL

I read something to the effect of how pretty much everything in Japan was done close to the floor. If the floor was really such a bad place why would one be sleeping and eating from such a low altitude? :-)

[Karen Wolek]

Yeah, Kevin.........please..............if your obi starts to stink, please wash it. I may be training with you sometime in the near future! ;)

[Nacho_mx]

A good gi keeps the sweat inside, so the obi is never moist. However a chip karategi will be stinky after a couple of classes. I used to wash my white obi, I haven´t washed my black obi (it´s been two years)

[norman telford]

in the ukau we use the colourd obi system and i have found washing each one when it is new removes the stiffness in them so they stay tied and dont stick out horizontaly but if there was an obi related stink it would get a washi nage for sure:D

[Grasshopper]

Only time I've washed my belt (twice!) are when my mother slipped it into the washing machine when I wasn't looking :eek: which got me no end of teasing from the senior members in the dojo...

Personally, I can't see how belts can get so sweaty they require washing...! Unless you're training in a light gi, then all the sweat pretty much stays inside. Being female, I always wear a shirt under my gi, and I've also found that keeps the need to wash my gi down.

During summer schools, most people leave their gi to dry in the sun... Gives it a nice warm feeling without making it go all hard and crunchy like after washing.

On a similar note: Do people put softener in when washing heavy gi? I use 2-3 times as much as a normal wash for two small gi, and they still crunch... Any general tips on washing gi?

Yoroshiku!

[akiy]

A good gi keeps the sweat inside, so the obi is never moist.
I usually wear a single or double weave judogi or a Bu Jin Design heavy dogi top and have had my belt pretty much soaked through quite frequently. Heck, I've had my koshiita on my hakama pretty much soaked through as well.

As far as fabric softener goes, it's discouraged as it causes fabrics to become softer at the expense of its losing absorbency.

-- Jun

[Nacho_mx]

How hot and humid your dojo is? Here the temperature is almost always around 18-20 Celsius and the air is very dry (Mexico City is at high altitude). We don´t have air conditioning but the air circulation is good.

I use a Mitsuboshi, single weave and I wash it once a week (no whiteners or softeners).

[akiy]

Where I live, it's not very hot nor humid. It looks like the average temperature last month was 4.3 degrees celsius. The average temperature for last August was 21.6 degrees celsius, though.

We're not as high as Mexico City but we're up at around 1650 meters, I believe.

-- Jun

[Dross]

I wear a double weave judogi. I wash it after every class. We use the colored belt system, so if I have to wash my belt due to StinkyFactor(TM) then I make sure to avoid washing it with my gi. We have a few newer students with yellow gis. :D

[Kevin Masters]

I like having a crunchy Dogi.

It's similar to slipping into crisp bedsheets.

:D

I didn't machine-dry my Gi this time and found it to be extra-crispy.

Mmmmmm... Extra-Crispy!:o Gaahhhh...

[Fiona D]

My gi is a fairly heavy-duty one, and gets very crispy if I allow it to dry naturally. Usually I iron it with maximum heat and maximum steam - that gets rid of quite a lot of the crispiness. Also it means I can restretch the fabric properly; I find it tends to shrink quite a bit, especially at the seams. Gi trousers that end halfway down the leg are not ideal....

[rachmass]

off the subject a bit; I usually buy double weave judo gis, and I always use fabric softners (the sheet types) because I really hate a rough gi against my neck. I know this is supposed to break down the fabric, but I typically get at least five years out of a gi top (less on the pants, but thats because I wear down the knees).

[Kevin Wilbanks]

I prefer the stiff canvas gi tops - that seem like they are made out of the same stuff that covers the mats. The stiffness of the fabric makes it stand out away from the skin when wet rather than sticking like a wet t-shirt. Plus, the fabric is ridiculously strong. Judo gi are simply too heavy and hot for my tastes.

BTW, has anyone ever seen stiff canvas gi tops available in that unbleaced, off-white color? I would really like to get ahold of some. I have only been able to find them in white.

[William Boyd]

I have'nt log in for a while, but I found the time to look at the questions. I heard it was because of tradition. In the old days your belt went from white to black bacause of all the dirt that acualated on it over all the years of training.

[Bronson]

In the old days your belt went from white to black bacause of all the dirt that acualated on it over all the years of training.

One of the great things about the internet is that we get access to a much wider knowledge base. From what I've seen written here by people who have a much deeper understanding of martial arts history than myself, the white-to-black-belt-over-time-from-dirt theory really isn't true. The colored belt system isn't that old to begin with. I do however have one student who seems to be taking this path...the belt is now a nice pale grey :p

Bronson (who doesn't wash his belt because it's our dojo's traditon, and that's a good enough reason for me)

[Dross]

off the subject a bit; I usually buy double weave judo gis, and I always use fabric softners (the sheet types) because I really hate a rough gi against my neck. I know this is supposed to break down the fabric, but I typically get at least five years out of a gi top (less on the pants, but thats because I wear down the knees).
Me too, and bleach as well. Never really had a problem with it weakening.

[LittleMissBudo]

I'm 5'0 and wear a 160cm gi with the corresponding belt. In a year I've only washed the belt once and wont do it again - it shrank about 4 inches!

Despite a lot of stretching, I can't get it back to it's original length and can't afford for it to shrink any further.

So Half Pints unite! Don't wash your belts!

LMB

[kensparrow]

When I started I decided to only wash my belt after each promotion. It seems like a good time for a symbolic reminder to keep a beginners mind.

[JJF]

Me too, and bleach as well. Never really had a problem with it weakening.well neither bleach nor fabric softener are good for the environment, so that's one more thing to take into concideration.

[Bud]

I don't put any symbolism at all in my belt and how often I wash it. It's just something to keep my gi closed and anchor the hakama to. I wash it maybe once or twice a year. Even if I sweat a lot, the belt rarely gets wet. The color just makes it easier to hide the fact that I don't wash it regularly. :)

[cindy perkins]

I am really grateful for this thread! THAT'S why I can't figure out this Ki thing! I've been washing it away!

I wash everything in the washer on cold. No shrinkage, no wearing out, lots of tangling around the agitator and all the other clothes.

[Kevin Wilbanks]

I wash everything in the washer on cold. No shrinkage, no wearing out, lots of tangling around the agitator and all the other clothes.
I suggest buying yourself a little 'sock bag' made of nylon netting like they use in the military. You can put your belt or hakama in there and it won't get tangled in the machine.

[justinmaceachern]

Dont do it. keep your belt the same and if it fades you gain experience

[Bronson]

Hmmm, if I eat a master's dirty belt will I gain his power? :crazy: :yuck: ;)

Bronson

[Alec Corper]

Washing the belt allows the belt to perform an old koryu technique, "shrink-age" which imparts great ki to the wearer,
Alec as all real warriors know! ;-)

[afwen]

You guys are disgusting. Wash your damn belts!

[James Kelly]

don't wash mine because that's the tradition at my dojo... funny though, there's kind of a running joke at my old dojo that if you see a shodan or nidan with a really ragged black belt they're probably washing it to make it look older.

[Mark Freeman]

This thread is now in its 4th year, a record in the making?

4 years talking about laundry.... :p

[rottunpunk]

hehe
beats talking about the weather.
my mother washed my blue judo belt because it leaked all over my kit. the excess dye washed out, but it wasnt a pretty blue anymore.
wish i knew kendo dye fixing tecniques back then.

dont have that problem now i do aiki, but i probly wont wash it, im curious to see how long it takes to turn black on its own
:p