My gi makes me look fat.

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[Victoria Pitt]

I was looking in the mirror when I was practicing some strikes when I noticed:

"Gee, this gi makes me look fat."

Which kind of upset me as that though I am no skinny mini, I am certainly not fat. Hell, I've been warned more than once to not "muscle people to get them to do what you want" in class.

So I was looking at some of the girls who look so tiny in their gi. Some are wearing I guess karate gis. Some are just really tiny girls. (We have a lot of women in our dojo).

I then realized that I'm just the biggest chick in the dojo at the moment. =/

I guess its time to up the cardio because I hate thinking "gee, this gi makes me look fat" Which has finally replaced, "oh wow, there go my pants again!"

And like apples more than chocolate cake! =/

But my gi does make me look bigger than I am.

(p.s. I've been doing a lot of reading on here but I know where I train, we end up dripping in sweat by the time its over. I could ring my gi top out like a towel after practice. I don't understand the people who say that Aikido doesn't give you a work out.)

[MM]

I was looking in the mirror when I was practicing some strikes when I noticed:

"Gee, this gi makes me look fat."

Which kind of upset me as that though I am no skinny mini, I am certainly not fat. Hell, I've been warned more than once to not "muscle people to get them to do what you want" in class.

So I was looking at some of the girls who look so tiny in their gi. Some are wearing I guess karate gis. Some are just really tiny girls. (We have a lot of women in our dojo).

I then realized that I'm just the biggest chick in the dojo at the moment. =/

Kate Moss got in trouble for saying "Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels".

I don't want to be "big samurai" woman.

I guess its time to up the cardio because I hate thinking "gee, this gi makes me look fat" Which has finally replaced, "oh wow, there go my pants again!"

And like apples more than chocolate cake! =/

Rena Glickman aka Rusty Kanokogi

(Credit to Interloper at RSF. http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7153)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/23/sports/olympics/23kanokogi.html?_r=1

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1064627/1/index.htmf

Excerpts


What kind of a woman would do leg squats on the D train from Brooklyn to Manhattan each morning?

Or mistake an innocent Japanese university student for a pervert on a dance floor and pinch his rear end so hard he fled into the night?

Or rant and rumble until she had almost singlehandedly created the women's judo world championships and bullied women's judo into the Olympics?


She was now a full-time instructor and coach, the years of her prime slipping away. When the first women's nationals were finally held in Phoenix in 1974, 15 months from her 40th birthday, she dropped 85 pounds in 13 weeks to compete in the 166-pound division, but with 2½ hours left to weigh in, was still seven pounds over. On a 100° day, she pulled three rubber suits and two sweatsuits over her body, turned on the sink and shower hot-water faucets and began running in place in the steam, spitting furiously as she counted to a million. She made the weight and promptly doubled up with muscle cramps and diarrhea. As if in a hallucinogenic dream, she stepped onto the mat for the first round and began to fight, then dropped to her knees and spat up blood. A doctor rushed to the mat. "If you continue, you'd better win in the next 30 seconds," he informed her, "because you're going to die."

Don't die, Kanokogi. If you die you've lost, because they'll think you are weak. If you die, they'll think you're just a woman.

She didn't die, although the doctor at the hospital mentioned that she might have suffered a minor heart attack (she hadn't). "Wow!" people said to her now that she was thin. "You look great." She found herself standing before the mirror primping, patting her hair, holding up dresses. Then she looked into herself. "Screw this," she said and headed for the potato chips. Being large gave her a feeling of strength.


and


Would they treat her differently if she behaved like a woman? Once, before entering a meeting, Kanokogi decided to try. She wriggled into a dress, caked on the mascara, rouge and lipstick, glued on the false eyelashes and crop-dusted herself with perfume. "I tonned it up," she says. "I went up to this official I was trying to charm—I even walked weak. 'Oh, what a lovely tie you have,' I said in my softest voice. I tried to bat my eyes and look innocent; I looked like I had an affliction. It was working, he was softening up, but I had to run to the bathroom and laugh. I felt like a jerk.

"Why the hell should we have to act? Do they have to act? The same ones who will watch women mud-wrestle and shout, 'Hey, look at those big balloons,' are the ones who say no to women's judo. Why? Because the women in it are real athletes, not just show. They can take care of themselves. Some men are intimidated by that. They think, What's the sense of being a man if we can't protect a woman?"

[Linda Eskin]

Wow, Mark. Good stuff. Thank you for that.

Victoria, as I'm sure you know, there's big and strong, and big and fat. Nothing wrong with big. I'm 5'8", with size 11 feet, and wrists too big for most women's watches. I'm never going to be tiny, no matter what I weigh. I'm probably the biggest woman at my dojo (we have lots, too) - I'll have to look around. If you're unhealthy, sure hit the cardio. Get fit, train hard, eat well, and let the weight take care of itself.

I'm down over 30 pounds since starting Aikido in May, and in *much* better shape. But I still havve a bumper sticker on my car that says "Ride a draft, it'll make your but look smaller." (My horse is a 1,400 lb half-draft.) ;-) I'm sure I still look huge in a gi. LOL

If all else fails, listen to Saffire - The Uppity Blue Women's "There's Lightning in These Thunder Thighs". :-)

[Victoria Pitt]

Oh geesh... LOL... this totally didn't come off as I wanted it too. Hahah.

I am not "un-fit" and if you saw me in normal clothes, you'd have no idea that I in fact weigh as much as I do. It wasn't until later in life that I realized that though I do have some body-fat, I have quite a bit of strength (except for a weak lower back that I am working on). That's is where I carry the weight and it makes me on the stocky side (I guess you'd call me an endomorph)?

I am just complaining that the gi is the most unflattering outfit I've ever had to wear. There are people who wear theirs and they look great! Graceful even.

I'm the big old Clydesdale lumbering and lurching about in a bunch of cotton cloth.

Do not mistake me- I will throw your ass if I can and i'll put more than a little muscle into it. (Victoria, Victoria, STOP MUSCLING UKE... lol)

But then I'll check my lipstick.

I AM a tomboy. I just don't like looking unkempt.

And no, I don't re-adjust my gi constantly unless it's falling off (which we've fixed now, thanks!).

My gi makes me look fat and it makes me sad.

And I only notice it when I am practicing bokken in front of a mirror, otherwise it does not cross my mind.

I still don't think I'd switch to a karate gi- I imagine that you'd get more burns in them and my elbows already are looking like hell from mat/gi burn.

[Russ Q]

Mirrors are distracting in a dojo.....tend to feed the ego.

Cheers,

Russ

[Karo]

If you die you've lost, because they'll think you are weak. If you die, they'll think you're just a woman.

Mark, thank you for posting these excerpts. They show in a very succinct way how the weight of stereotypes limits our true human potential.

I want to be strong and athletic, confident and direct, but half the world (or more) insists on judging me for not being "feminine" (by which they mean weak, submissive, and pretty). It's not easy to disregard their opinions completely, but you have to stay true to yourself.

Victoria, just train. If you look in the mirror at all, look only to check your posture. Just train. In the long run, that's all that matters.

Karo

[Victoria Pitt]

Mirrors are distracting in a dojo.....tend to feed the ego.

Cheers,

Russ

But are a good thing to use on occasion when you need to check form. We don't use mirrors of Aikido but do for new people in Iaido. Let me tell you- if I didn't "see" in the mirror what I was told I was doing wrong, I never would have been able to figure out what was wrong.

Which brings me to a tangent- Not everyone learns the same way. I know there is a tradition to how some things are taught but over time, especially decades, people change.

My posture is crap. I don't "feel" that my posture is crap. I'm comfortable. When I hold my bokken a certain way, telling me "well that should feel uncomfortable" doesn't fly with me because 9 times out of 10, the way you want me to do it is what feels unnatural and uncomfortable to me. This is where a visual reference to me helps loads. If I can see what I am doing, I know which body part to keep in check because it LOOKS wrong as opposed to FEELS wrong. (I hope I'm making sense here). Hence the mirrors for starting Iaido- I didn't know I was leaning forward as much as I am and I don't know what the right way to hold something FEELS like because I can's see where there right place is supposed to be.

Then again, I'm evil because I don't buy into the Yoda aspect of Aikido. Looking in a mirror as I am training has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with what proper form looks like and then feels like. It's natural to compare things. Its not different than if I saw a chick wearing the same outfit I was and wondered who could carry it off better. We're not talking about technique here. We're talking about fashion. I keep my "deep esoteric thoughts about the universe" out of my Aikido practice because I have other venues for that. I am mostly concerned about doing it correctly and feeling why its correct. Not if I am experiencing rapture as I throw or am thrown (though I have experienced the birdies around the head thing once or twice). Again, nothing to do with ego at all.

P.S.

I really don't get where people are getting the vibe that I am worried about if I am unfeminine or not from what I said. I ride a sport bike, live in jeans, and work in a male dominated field. I'm very comfortable with my sexuality (I know others are not), but that doesn't mean I don't like to look my best no matter what I do!

*sigh*

I give up.

[Janet Rosen]

Heck, I look like a giant snowball in my gi, always have, probably always will.
Victoria, I feel your pain re the last post. I've been training on and off for 14 yrs and still sometimes have to have it pointed out that my posture or movement is not, in fact, how it "feels" to me like it is while I'm moving. I am wired with a very good sense of the purely internal workings of my body (overly sensitive to minor biochemical changes, always could tell if an injury or illness was organ versus soft tissue, etc). However, my sense of my body in relationship to the world (body boundaries and body in space) was always very poor. Its why I have always said I have no natural talent for aikido (or dance or anything movement based). Aikido has definitely given me the tools to improve in this area but it will always be my weak area.

[Keith Larman]

Mirrors are distracting in a dojo.....tend to feed the ego.


As do short, deep sounding quotes placed with little regard for a larger context.

Oh, phooey, am I doing it too? Argh...

[Victoria Pitt]

Heck, I look like a giant snowball in my gi, always have, probably always will.
Victoria, I feel your pain re the last post. I've been training on and off for 14 yrs and still sometimes have to have it pointed out that my posture or movement is not, in fact, how it "feels" to me like it is while I'm moving. I am wired with a very good sense of the purely internal workings of my body (overly sensitive to minor biochemical changes, always could tell if an injury or illness was organ versus soft tissue, etc). However, my sense of my body in relationship to the world (body boundaries and body in space) was always very poor. Its why I have always said I have no natural talent for aikido (or dance or anything movement based). Aikido has definitely given me the tools to improve in this area but it will always be my weak area.

Thank you... but I'm stranger in that aspect. I have good balance and have always been able to keep my feet under me, no matter what you do. I've had some scary things on the motorcycle that if I didn't feel my own balance , I'd not be able to throw my weight around on the bike to get it to do what I want it to do. That being said, that is why I get so confused with some techniques. Everyone saying "well it would be natural to do this..." and in my head I'm thinking "um, no it isn't not to me.. to me that feels off balance and dangerous" So I nod my head and say "yes" because I know I am supposed to do what I am told and not what I "feel".

I can't dance.. But I can ice skate, roller blade, do anything that is kind of free-form physical. That is why Aikido IS such a challenge for me because I want to do things my way and I can't. That is why I signed up after my first class- finally something that I couldn't "bullshit and bravado*" my way through. :cool:

*you have no idea how many times THAT technique has saved my ass in the "real world". *wink*

[Janet Rosen]

That is why I signed up after my first class- finally something that I couldn't "bullshit and bravado*" my way through. :cool:
*you have no idea how many times THAT technique has saved my ass in the "real world". *wink*

This Brooklyn budobabe certainly DOES have a good idea :-)

[Howard Popkin]

The all you can eat buffet makes me look fat, not my gi.

:)

[Mark Peckett]

I don't know how long you've been practising, Victoria - but since you joined this forum quite recently I'll assume you're new. Beginners tend to tie their belts at their waist, and it does tend to make men look as if they have very long legs, and women look as if they have a large bust.

Just a suggestion, but try tying your belt around your hips with the knot firmly at your one point, and then tug your jacket down underneath. This might help.

I hate mirrors in the dojo because they make the light shine off my bald head!

[ninjaqutie]

I don't think too many women look flattering in gi's myself. We only have a few female in my dojo and I have yet to look over and think "Man, I wish I could pull off a gi like they do!" :) Aikido/judo gi's are more bulky, so they do make you look bigger. The only thing I could think of is if you bought Bujin's women cut gi. Since it is made to fit a women's body, perhaps it would flatter your shape more. I myself would like to get one of them (and their women's hakama) eventually.

I do have to admit that some people just tend to look more put together in a gi then others do. It is like their gi top stays tight, closed and just appears to stay that way effortlessly.

[Keith Larman]

Don't worry about it. The only things I tend to notice are people who don't wash their gi enough (blech) and people who have a habit of eating too much garlic/etc. right before class. Apart from that I ain't paying much attention to anyone else in the dojo unless I'm teaching (in which case I'm focused on teaching) or training (in which case I'm worried about that other person trying to punch my lights out).

It's just training gear.

[Russ Q]

But are a good thing to use on occasion when you need to check form. We don't use mirrors of Aikido but do for new people in Iaido. Let me tell you- if I didn't "see" in the mirror what I was told I was doing wrong, I never would have been able to figure out what was wrong.

Which brings me to a tangent- Not everyone learns the same way. I know there is a tradition to how some things are taught but over time, especially decades, people change.

My posture is crap. I don't "feel" that my posture is crap. I'm comfortable. When I hold my bokken a certain way, telling me "well that should feel uncomfortable" doesn't fly with me because 9 times out of 10, the way you want me to do it is what feels unnatural and uncomfortable to me. This is where a visual reference to me helps loads. If I can see what I am doing, I know which body part to keep in check because it LOOKS wrong as opposed to FEELS wrong. (I hope I'm making sense here). Hence the mirrors for starting Iaido- I didn't know I was leaning forward as much as I am and I don't know what the right way to hold something FEELS like because I can's see where there right place is supposed to be.

Then again, I'm evil because I don't buy into the Yoda aspect of Aikido. Looking in a mirror as I am training has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with what proper form looks like and then feels like. It's natural to compare things. Its not different than if I saw a chick wearing the same outfit I was and wondered who could carry it off better. We're not talking about technique here. We're talking about fashion. I keep my "deep esoteric thoughts about the universe" out of my Aikido practice because I have other venues for that. I am mostly concerned about doing it correctly and feeling why its correct. Not if I am experiencing rapture as I throw or am thrown (though I have experienced the birdies around the head thing once or twice). Again, nothing to do with ego at all.

Well explained. Your perspective certainly makes sense to me. From my own experience, I would still question the validity of mirrors in the dojo. I don't think we need to get into "deep esoteric thoughts about the universe" to see you are judging yourself (about looking fat in your gi) and that judgement is a manifestation of ones ego.

[QUOTE]As do short, deep sounding quotes placed with little regard for a larger context.

Oh, phooey, am I doing it too? Argh./QUOTE]

Hi Keith, I like to keep it short so there is less opportunity to be misunderstood (especially in this millieu)! It also allows the reader to decide how it fits into the larger context for them.

Cheers,

Russ

[Victoria Pitt]

Don't worry about it. The only things I tend to notice are people who don't wash their gi enough (blech)

Don't get me started on that one. Its like they wear it then stuff it in the bag until next time. Do you do that with your normal clothes? I have two gi (and will get a third in Jan because I train that much) and no more than two uses each then in the wash... sometimes just one!

[Russ Q]

[QUOTE]Don't worry about it. The only things I tend to notice are people who don't wash their gi enough (blech) and people who have a habit of eating too much garlic/etc. right before class. Apart from that I ain't paying much attention to anyone else in the dojo unless I'm teaching (in which case I'm focused on teaching) or training (in which case I'm worried about that other person trying to punch my lights out).

It's just training gear/QUOTE]

True dat.

[Victoria Pitt]

I don't think we need to get into "deep esoteric thoughts about the universe" to see you are judging yourself (about looking fat in your gi) and that judgement is a manifestation of ones ego.

Here we go with the yoda stuff.:rolleyes: . -which I respect your decision to train that way and view that way, but be careful not to project on other people your way. You way isn't the only way or even the "right way". It is the "right way" for you.

If you want to get into semantics, then everything one does in a day has to do with the ego- are my clothes clean? Did I get done today the tasks that I was supposed to? Did I make sure to be kind and courteous to everyone I encountered today? Breathing is ego as that you are concerned with intake of air in order to survive. If I wanted to, I could go deep into mumbo-jumbo that will leave everyone here so confused, yet sound so valid I must be a Bodhisattva come to life (which, when you think about it, even being selfless is having an ego as that to give someone something is still acknowledgment that you have something to give)!

I said "my gi makes me look fat". It was nothing deeper than that. It was an observation, and frankly I thought amusing. It does not affect the intensity of my training, willingness to learn, or respect I have for the sport.

I will however, make a joke at my, or your expense (if I know you have a sense of humor) because life is so goddamn serious.

That is half the reason why posting on here scares me; you have to be careful what you say as that people then tend to put too much thought an import on it (which, is to have an opinion on it, especially somewhat self righteous, having an ego?) Some of us are here because we like to have fun and learn. No more. No less.

[Russ Q]

Hey Victoria,

I'm not judging you. I'm simply responding, from my experience (for what that is worth), to your original post which said in part:

I was looking in the mirror when I was practicing some strikes when I noticed:

"Gee, this gi makes me look fat."

Which kind of upset me as that though I am no skinny mini, I am certainly not fat.

Perhaps I was stating the obvious, or being too serious, or not seeing the light heartedness or your post, or all three.

Namaste,

Russ

[Shadowfax]

Yeah mine to Vic.. but you know what? Uke is not busy noticing how fat your gi makes you look when he's flying across the mat. :)

The only people I have ever felt like maybe judged me by what I look like have quickly got over it the first time they tried to move me.

How I look used to bother me too. Now I just realize that I have to accept who I am and the body that genetics gave me. I'll never be skinny. All that white.. no not my favorite color to wear. Yet another reason to appreciate the hakima. ;)

[lbb]

P.S.

I really don't get where people are getting the vibe that I am worried about if I am unfeminine or not from what I said. I ride a sport bike, live in jeans, and work in a male dominated field. I'm very comfortable with my sexuality (I know others are not), but that doesn't mean I don't like to look my best no matter what I do!

What I got from your post was a lot more complicated than concern that you were "unfeminine", but I did get an element of that...a thread in a bigger fabric if you will. I think that without meaning it, you touched on some pretty big issues here. For example, you mention sexuality above...why? It isn't mentioned in your original post. Nor is male domination of certain fields of endeavor. Yet they're threads in this fabric.

*sigh*

I give up.

What is it that you're giving up on? On communicating how you feel...or on getting unconditional validation for it? I think that it's entirely possible that we, your readers, are understanding various aspects of the "fabric" quite well (and some may even have some insights that you may not have considered -- which, it seems to me, is an excellent reason for posting a "I feel like xyz" post)...but that some of these insights may make you wince a bit. Anything close to the bone will have that effect.

I think that we, your readers, can say to you truthfully that the average person in the average dojo doesn't look at his/her fellow students and think, "Wow, he/she looks fat!" or "Goodness me, she doesn't look very ladylike!" or any such tripe. I think that you can read that and believe us -- intellectually. That doesn't fully put to rest all the many issues that are in this "fabric", however. You may feel that some of your respondents are going on a snipe hunt with all these issues that you didn't intend in your original post, but I have a feeling that the "this gi makes me look fat" feeling (or the "gosh, gis are really unflattering to the female figure" feeling, if you prefer) won't be dismissed with just the wave of a hand.

[Victoria Pitt]

^^ Of course it won't be dismissed because once people go running off at the bit, no one can stop them. It's human nature. It doesn't matter what the original intention of what something is, the masses will make it into what they want it to be.

Feminine I define as a part of one's sexuality or identity. I never mentioned it until someone else was posting stuff about how women are perceived and being strong and then there was another comment feeding into that and there we go- my point proven.. people make it into what they want it to be.

I'm a selfish person, I guess. I don't care what YOU think of me so much as I care what I think of me. "I look fat in this gi" does not equate to me thinking I am so important in the world that now I wonder what others think about how I look in the gi. It doesn't equate me with judging how you look in your gi. My mind does not operate like that. I'm pretty upfront in saying what I mean and meaning what I say, with no shadows or underlying psychological depths that need to be examined and explored for if I was abused as a kid (wink).

If I had said, "gee, I look fat in this dress" I would have gotten a much different response.

And I am giving up on communicating my thoughts because I forget that the way I think is backwards and inside out of how most people think. My thought process is just out there which is fine. I am highly amused at the moment, however... that is always a good thing. ;)

Next time when I am having a random thought, I'll post "I look hot in my cycling gear" or, "country music makes me feel violent" except this is the wrong forum for that. ;)

[Chris Covington]

I remember someone saying to me once, "I used to have an ego, but not anymore." :rolleyes: LOL

[Shadowfax]

Why are you so upset? The thing about saying something in a public forum is people are going to use their own life experience and background to interpret your meaning and try to join in the conversation. If you don't want there to be a conversation... why make the post? Right? If the technique does not work... change techniques. Ok so maybe the thread went of in a different direction than you expected it to. Sometimes Ukes do that... You know this information and the points brought up are still valid, still good technique and they might just be exactly what someone else needs to see.

How did people get the idea you were worried about your femininity.. well lets have a look.

You looked in the mirror and were concerned how your gi makes you look.

The you compared yourself to other women in the dojo. Not just other people. Not other men too ....specifically, other women. Well I'd take that to mean you were concerned about not looking as nice in a gi as the slim girls. Hey I've taken note of those things myself. You know what? Gi's make everyone look fatter than street clothes. Wearing all white, especially loose cut ,not tailored all white, has that effect. I'll bet you the slim girls feel he same way.

Ok so we all know how it feels. We all can sympathize with how you feel. For some this may very well translate to feeling less feminine. In our society its not considered ok for a woman to be big strong and agressive/dominant. But some of us are all or some of those things. So even though you might not be the one who needs to know that its ok to be that way there are, some who will read this thread and maybe join in who do need to hear others say that yes it is perfectly ok to be who and what you are.

Look at it as a good thing. You might not have meant to start this particular discussion but it will still be useful information for others to appreciate. I ,for one, am really glad you posted this.

[Faith Hansen]

Gis are just not flattering. Try being 6 months pregnant in a Gi and Hakama and look in a mirror. NOT flattering. LOL. Oh well. I wobble around the mat not caring one bit.

[Victoria Pitt]

........

I just guess the tangent it went off to is soooo bizarre! Which explains how differently I think than most people. I still don't get where how I feel I look in my gi turned into a discourse of femininity? It was a random observation and I thought it funny like "do these jeans make me look fat?" It turned into how a woman made judo an Olympic sport (good for her!), the ego, and why I didn't compare myself to a man (um, I'm not a man). I don't think I once mentioned that I cared what other people thought of me- hell, if I did I wouldn't look the way I do (not going to go into that but right now, I am NOT referring to weight at all).

I said I don't like how I look in my gi. I realized that everyone else looks so tiny and I marveled at it. I then realized I am not doing my best and to cut out the chocolate cake. This was never about me and you or me and that other person, but me and I need to do better. That I thought people might relate to... not into what it die.

So yeah, I'm a little upset because everyone is reading in more to it than I meant. Clearly, I did not articulate myself well enough. I'm sorry if it struck a sensitive point for a lot of you. I shall refrain from opening new threads in the future.

[Janet Rosen]

V, please don't self-censor or stop posting - just remember that on a public forum every reader is going to bring his or her own filters and anything ANY of us post may end up being the opening notes on which others will riff to their heart's content - and we are not responsible for which part of our posts each person will choose to riff on. If that makes any sense...

Anyhow, I totally "got" how you made the same kind of offhand comment about how the gi "made you look fat" because I had the same reaction in mine, still do 14 yrs later, and it has NOTHING to do with other people, ego, the presence or absence of mirrors, or femininity. In different garments/outfits I look like I am more or less round than I look naked, and dang it, yep, in a white gi I look fat!

[Janet Rosen]

Just a suggestion, but try tying your belt around your hips with the knot firmly at your one point, and then tug your jacket down underneath. This might help.

Mark, those of us with hips considerably larger than our waists cannot do this. A belt tied around the hips naturally rides up to the waistline during normal movement, and simply becomes a too-loosely-tied belt. We have no choice but to tie our belts at our natural waists regardless of what our male sensei might insist is "proper."

[Shadowfax]

I still don't really get why you are upset. Your last post certainly made mroe clear what you meant by your comment. Its nto so easy in this format to make humor come across if that was your intent. Well... that's why we have a humor section. So people know its supposed to be funny. ;)

Now we understand. What you meant. Don't take the serious comment so.. well... seriously.

It still brought out a lot of very valid points. If not for you then for other people.

The only person who seems to have been hit in a sensitive area is you. I don't see anyone else getting so worked up about it.

[Victoria Pitt]

Mark, those of us with hips considerably larger than our waists cannot do this. A belt tied around the hips naturally rides up to the waistline during normal movement, and simply becomes a too-loosely-tied belt. We have no choice but to tie our belts at our natural waists regardless of what our male sensei might insist is "proper."

Which totally off topic but who cares now-

We were working with jo the other day and doing a lot Tsuki. My partner was taller than I am and I guess I need to admit that I am not all that tall. Every time he was defending, he kept getting me in the exact same spot on my left boob. Now I know him. He totally wasn't doing it on purpose- it just happened that with the distance between us and how we were attacking, that just where that jo was always landing. I finally stood up and in my deadpan way (and I know people MUST see the mischeviousness in my eyes. I know at least Sensei does) and I said to him:

"Stop stabbing me in the boob. I'm getting sore."

(which I was)

Poor guy turned beat red. I know he felt bad about it. Then I winked at him to let him know that I wasn't angry and I knew it wasn't on purpose but stop it and adjust because I was getting really sore.

But I suppose that makes up for the times I have accidentally nutted guys in the dojo with swari waza.

And to clarify- I thought of this because of Janet's comment about how women's bodies are with the belt which made me think of how having other parts can make for some amusing training sometime. Thank god everyone is so laid back and unassuming!

[Keith Larman]

Don't get me started on that one. Its like they wear it then stuff it in the bag until next time. Do you do that with your normal clothes? I have two gi (and will get a third in Jan because I train that much) and no more than two uses each then in the wash... sometimes just one!

Yup. I sweat a lot so I usually have a second keikogi top with me just in case. And at a minimum it is hung up outside to air dry even after one session. Two sessions max and it gets washed.

But yeah, I know what you mean. I remember one day someone showing me a photo of me doing something. That was the first time I realized I was firmly middle-aged... But it was a fleeting moment of awareness and then gone by the next breath.

And I'm with Howard otherwise -- it's all that delicious food that makes *me* look fat. :D

[Shadowfax]

Which totally off topic but who cares now-

There ya go. Good for you. Love the post. :) Totally sounds like something I'd say.

[ninjaqutie]

Mark, those of us with hips considerably larger than our waists cannot do this. A belt tied around the hips naturally rides up to the waistline during normal movement, and simply becomes a too-loosely-tied belt. We have no choice but to tie our belts at our natural waists regardless of what our male sensei might insist is "proper."

I'm with Janet on this one. I either have a tight belt on my waist or a loose belt that ends up around my boobs... I think the belt around the waist is the lesser of two evils.... :D

Men will just never understand that..... they appreciate our waists and hips, yet fail to recognize that it causes wardrobe malfunctions in the dojo. :rolleyes:

[ramenboy]

just wanted to say as soon as i read the name of this thread, i knew who started it :P

vic, you kill me hahahahahah

[Darryl Cowens]

Yeah.. don't stop posting... theres something I enjoy about your posts... ;)

[Victoria Pitt]

just wanted to say as soon as i read the name of this thread, i knew who started it :P

vic, you kill me hahahahahah

That is only because you have the (dis)pleasure of knowing me personally. ;)

Again, tangential but when you see me again, between practices, can you show me that move we were doing on Monday again? The one where you drop to the knee and reach over both arms because it really isn't making sense in my brain. It seems too complicated to be effective or come naturally. I know I must be missing something.

Thanks! =)

[Walter Martindale]

...and I said to him:

"Stop stabbing me in the boob. I'm getting sore."



If someone's hitting you in the (anything), it's because the (anything) is still there when the hit arrives.
Stop being there for him to hit. Sensei should be able to help figger out how. Isn't that what tai-sabaki and maai are all about?

Hope I'm not off base, but if someone hits me during training I look to what I did wrong, not to the person who's supposed to be trying to hit me.

walter
p.s., do keep posting...

[ninjaqutie]

If someone's hitting you in the (anything), it's because the (anything) is still there when the hit arrives.
Stop being there for him to hit. Sensei should be able to help figger out how. Isn't that what tai-sabaki and maai are all about?

I don't know about your dojo, but in my dojo when we are working with the jo, we stay still to allow them to get in the last strike during our kata. This allows them to work on their accuracy and in kata, there is usually a "winner" and a "loser" at the end. Or at least there is in my dojo.... I'm guessing Victoria's is the same way, but not sure.

[phitruong]

And I'm with Howard otherwise -- it's all that delicious food that makes *me* look fat. :D

it's not the foods. it's the gi and the mirrors conspire together to make us all looked fat. one of the reason why i like to practice without gi and not in-front of the mirror. :)

[Janet Rosen]

I don't know about your dojo, but in my dojo when we are working with the jo, we stay still to allow them to get in the last strike during our kata. This allows them to work on their accuracy.

Different dojos, different rules, so no one answer..... In places I've trained, if the jo, "for accuracy," is actually going to strike me, my role as the partner being accurately struck at at this point is to get the hell out of the way, usually taking a back fall.

[Victoria Pitt]

We take the strike for accuracy and then do break fall. It makes nage have to extend fully into tsuki and uke to know how to absorb the strike. At speed I would take a break fall but I'm still new and jo really isn't my thing so we do it slow which means jo in boobie.

More motivation to get it up to speed and take the break fall.

But that won't stop the abuse my boobs sometimes take. I swear sometimes when I get pinned, the person sometimes has their knee on top of the side of my breast. I'm slapping the floor because THAT hurts, not my friggin' arm lock!

Heh... girls and martial arts. Awesome. :p I'd still rather have my problem than the knee to the groin though. Just saying.

But remember:

"Knee to the groin is not Aikido".

*grumble... but it works... grumble, grumble*:disgust:

[Keith Larman]

it's not the foods. it's the gi and the mirrors conspire together to make us all looked fat. one of the reason why i like to practice without gi and not in-front of the mirror. :)

Ah, nude public training... Good plan... :D

[Kent Enfield]

If someone's hitting you in the (anything), it's because the (anything) is still there when the hit arrives.
Stop being there for him to hit. Sensei should be able to help figger out how. Isn't that what tai-sabaki and maai are all about?
It's not aikido, but . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fopdncdNG2Y

[Victoria Pitt]

Okay, white hakama +white dogi top = super stay puff marshmellow man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-sALU_hveA

[Janet Rosen]

We take the strike for accuracy and then do break fall. It makes nage have to extend fully into tsuki and uke to know how to absorb the strike. At speed I would take a break fall but I'm still new and jo really isn't my thing so we do it slow which means jo in boobie

OK...and at slow speed (which is the only speed this decrepit budubabe recognized besides "off") you can't either step back off the line or drop to take a little backfall?

[Victoria Pitt]

OK...and at slow speed (which is the only speed this decrepit budubabe recognized besides "off") you can't either step back off the line or drop to take a little backfall?

In this scenario, I am uke. I'm not stepping off the line because I'm making the initial strike. Nage (in one version that we were practicing) steps off the line and does tsuki into me instead. Nage needs to actually connect with me so that he's getting an idea of timing/distance. I am not just standing there and having him dig the jo into me. I am backing up as the jo is connected to me and will take a step back (or backfall) at the last moment I feel I need to.

If I were to not let nage ever connect with me, he'd never get an idea of where the jo should hit as that I would be a puff of air by then. In a real situation, of course I'd get off the line, counterstrike, etc- I'm not one to allow myself to get stabbed- but for the purpose of the exercise and my extreme novice level, I don't get too fancy. When the yudansha do it, they go for it, breakfalls and all that fancy matrix stuff. I'm just a no rank still. I consider a good day if I haven't:

Dropped the jo
Whapped myself in the face with it (or the shin)
Accidentally thrown it at another person.
Threw the jo at the shomen.
Tripped on it.

So we K.I.S.S. for me for now

(though I have a feeling that my days of getting away with sucking super bad are just about over since it was observed that I can in fact take a roll at full speed now as that my back seems to have healed up. I was hoping to still keep that a secret. =/ LOL )

P.S. One more thing:

Please keep in mind that I've been training for a little under a year and due to travel/injury had to miss out on some classes. I don't want anyone here to think when I am describing something that I am describing it correctly or well. This is still new to me and I have much to learn. I absolutely do not want to do a disservice to my dojo or my teachers by giving the impression they are teaching me incorrectly. My teachers are awesome and I have nothing but the greatest trust and respect for them. I am in the wrong 95% of the time still and by no means mean to give advice on how to do proper technique as that I still don't have a clue (of how to even hold a stick, apparently).

[Linda Eskin]

...I consider a good day if I haven't:

Dropped the jo
Whapped myself in the face with it (or the shin)
Accidentally thrown it at another person.
Threw the jo at the shomen.
Tripped on it.


OMG. That sounds familiar. When I first tried jo we did ushirto tsuki (the one toward the rear - I hope I got the name right), and I nearly launched the jo out the back door of the dojo. Caught it with my forward hand as it slipped through. Whew! I figured that (like dropping guitar picks occassionally) that was a good sign, that I didn't have a death grip on the thing. But still...

In the most recent weapons class I did there was someone sitting in the chairs off the mat, right behind me, completely trusting and/or naive about the possibility of flying weapons. :eek: I made darned sure I didn't lose the thing then!

I've never seen a weapon dropped or thrown in our classes yet, and I don't intend to be the first to do it. :p

[ninjaqutie]

Victoria, we do that exact same exercise since it is one of the basic responses to tsuki. :) I guess our dojos have a lot in common, but you are aikikai too aren't you? ;)

[Linda Eskin]

...When I first tried jo we did ushirto tsuki (the one toward the rear - I hope I got the name right...

D'oh! No, I did not get the name right. :mad: For the benefit of future generations, it's: ushiro tsuki. Duh...

[Janet Rosen]

Please keep in mind that I've been training for a little under a year and due to travel/injury had to miss out on some classes. I don't want anyone here to think when I am describing something that I am describing it correctly or well....

No worries, I don't think you are presenting or mis-representing your dojo or your training or anything. Your posts, AFAIK, are all well within bounds of netiquette, etc.

Re dropping jo; I once dropped my jo, bouncing it so hard off the front of my foreleg that over the next 3 days the internal bleeding spread throughout the compartment and I had a bruise from below my kneecap to just above my ankle. OUCH!

[ramenboy]

...
Again, tangential but when you see me again, between practices, can you show me that move we were doing on Monday again? The one where you drop to the knee and reach over both arms because it really isn't making sense in my brain. It seems too complicated to be effective or come naturally. I know I must be missing something.

Thanks! =)

you bet. any time. AFTER testing of course :P

Victoria, we do that exact same exercise since it is one of the basic responses to tsuki. I guess our dojos have a lot in common, but you are aikikai too aren't you?
both birankai dojo... bluhm sensei was at the shinjjinkai last year i think. :)

linda, janet et al kudos for making this thread even more lively!!!

[Walter Martindale]

[QUOTE=Victoria Pitt;246528] When the yudansha do it, they go for it, breakfalls and all that fancy matrix stuff. I'm just a no rank still. I consider a good day if I haven't:

Dropped the jo
Whapped myself in the face with it (or the shin)
Accidentally thrown it at another person.
Threw the jo at the shomen.
Tripped on it.

So we K.I.S.S. for me for now

(though I have a feeling that my days of getting away with sucking super bad are just about over since it was observed that I can in fact take a roll at full speed now as that my back seems to have healed up. I was hoping to still keep that a secret. =/ LOL )

oops, I deleted the end quote...


Well, I've had my jo bounce across a dojo and nearly hit the shihan leading the exercises... He laughed...
We do some kata slowly, and when someone is intended to move slowly or stay there to be sure that the strike would hit, we don't actually hit. Stop JUST before contact. However, when we're practicing jo tori or anything like that, and it's not the first try (or it's a grading or something), we don't really want to be there because the instruction for uke is to hit. If someone's actually trying to hit me, I believe that they're trying not to hit the skin on the surface of my tummy, they're trying to hit my spine, through the front.
I did my nidan grading last week. During "jo tori" I put the jo down too close to uke, he picked it up and had a go at me while I was still getting some maai: fortunately I did get out of the way because he nearly hit the guy a metre behind me (and then I managed to bop him on the head, so when I said "sorry" under my breath he said "I got what I deserved."...)
Hard work but fun - if someone's trying to hit you, don't be there when the hit arrives.
Walter

[Victoria Pitt]

you bet. any time. AFTER testing of course :P



See! Proof that people think I am so pea-brained when it comes to Aikido that he won't even show me the technique again until after my test for fear that some of the other Aikido stuff will fall out of my brain!

Test is in two weeks Jerry. I did not ask to test but I guess it was assumed. Are you coming to watch my pants fall down and me trip over my bokken and then just stand there in front of all those people like a deer in headlights? Free food and a comedy show, surely you're coming to that!

If it means anything, for some reason I know some of the stuff on the 4th kyu test (except for jo, of course). I do a really pretty sankyo....;)

[Victoria Pitt]

Just an fyi...

I got my Iaido uniform in the mail today...

My hakama makes me look fat too.

If only I knew how to sew instead of own a sewing machine. I could make a better fitted gi top.

I don't even know where to begin with that hakama. I don't know how to wear it, there are these long ass ties and I think they may have embroidered my name wrong (but they are Japanese!).

But I admit I did run around the house this morning with it tied like junk and my bokken out, terrorizing my fish with a bunch of cuts towards the fish tank. Go ahead, laugh. I did look like a big old dork in floppy pants hanging off me (as if you didn't do the same thing when you got your first hakama, be it for Aikido or Iaido).

Now I need to find a youtube video on how to fold this dang thing back up before class tonight as well as how to wear it.

And I need a new carrybag Aikido gi plus Iaido gi, plus weapons, plus Kindle, iphone, apples, water, wallet and granola bar = pack mule.

Oh... and what is this plastic tongue depressor thing stitched into the back of my hakama? is it an Iaido thing? That would hurt I, think, if I had to ever roll in that for Aikido.

[lbb]

Maybe you should contact Bujin (www.bujindesign.com) for aikido clothes specific to women. Also, I'd suggest getting one of your sempai to teach you how to put on and fold a hakama. They'll be a better teacher than youtube.

[Victoria Pitt]

^^ yes but I need to fold it before class tonight as that I don't want it to get too wrinkled. I am sure one of the Iaido guys will be happy to show me how to wear my clothes. They have to since I have to know how to do it right to hold my saya.

[Kent Enfield]

My hakama makes me look fat too.

If only I knew how to sew instead of own a sewing machine. I could make a better fitted gi top.
Japanese-style clothing, including keikogi and hakama for budo, aren't supposed to be fitted in the sense of following the shape of one's body. They're all made of big rectangles for the most part. Get over it.

[lbb]

^^ yes but I need to fold it before class tonight as that I don't want it to get too wrinkled. .

Heh, you should have left it in the package if you didn't know how to fold it!

Here's how I do it:

1. Grasp the top by the corners of the back flap, more or less (holding front and back) and shake it out.
2. Holding it by the top, lay it out face-down. Don't worry about lining anything up, that comes later -- just try to keep the front and back of the top centered.
3. Fold the box pleats, beginning with the innermost one. These pleats are all close to the inside of the legs. If you trace them up to the top of the hakama, it should be obvious which goes under which. When you are done, you want to have the outside seams right at the edge of the fabric (you may need to tug it a bit to get it like this) and the box pleats neatly folded and overlapping.
4. Grasp the top (front and back) in one hand and the bottom (front in back, holding the bottoms of the box pleats in place) in the other. Lift the hakama and switch ends so that the hakama is now face up. Do NOT let go until you've got it laid out. Don't worry if the front side goes all floppy -- if you've folded the box pleats properly and gripped it properly prior to turning it over, the box pleats will stay in place.
5. Carefully, without pulling out the box pleats, tug the outside seams into place (you want the outside edge to be right on the seam).
6. Beginning with the innermost pleats, fold the pleats as you did with the box pleat. Generally, you will be bringing the fabric in toward the middle, if that makes any sense. When you are done, all pleats should be neatly folded and vertical, the hakama should be flat, and the seams aligned with the edges.
7. Fold the outside seams to the center. You now have a narrow rectangle.
8. Crease the material of the hakama short-ways, more or less halfway up its length. Fold the bottom edge up to the top of the fabric.
9. Crease the folded hakama as in step 8, only in thirds this time. Again, fold up from bottom to top. You should now have a small square of fabric.

Folding and tying the ties is a whole 'nother subject -- for now, I'd just fold them flat and not worry about it, just get someone to show you how to do this after class.

It'll probably be pretty frustrating at first (especially after the first time you wash it), but practice makes perfect, or at least good enough.

[Victoria Pitt]

Japanese-style clothing, including keikogi and hakama for budo, aren't supposed to be fitted in the sense of following the shape of one's body. They're all made of big rectangles for the most part. Get over it.

Get over it, or innovate. I don't believe in stagnation and "just because so and so does it" means its okay for time immortal. Bujin apparently is addressing a market. I see further ways to expand on it and make it more comfortable and functional. And though I can't sew, I just might make a stab at it. Anyway, you just said that they are all made of big rectangles. Then it must be easy to improve the design some, yet keep the tradition. ;)

[Victoria Pitt]

Heh, you should have left it in the package if you didn't know how to fold it!

Here's how I do it:

1. Grasp the top by the corners of the back flap, more or less (holding front and back) and shake it out.
2. Holding it by the top, lay it out face-down. Don't worry about lining anything up, that comes later -- just try to keep the front and back of the top centered.
3. Fold the box pleats, beginning with the innermost one. These pleats are all close to the inside of the legs. If you trace them up to the top of the hakama, it should be obvious which goes under which. When you are done, you want to have the outside seams right at the edge of the fabric (you may need to tug it a bit to get it like this) and the box pleats neatly folded and overlapping.
4. Grasp the top (front and back) in one hand and the bottom (front in back, holding the bottoms of the box pleats in place) in the other. Lift the hakama and switch ends so that the hakama is now face up. Do NOT let go until you've got it laid out. Don't worry if the front side goes all floppy -- if you've folded the box pleats properly and gripped it properly prior to turning it over, the box pleats will stay in place.
5. Carefully, without pulling out the box pleats, tug the outside seams into place (you want the outside edge to be right on the seam).
6. Beginning with the innermost pleats, fold the pleats as you did with the box pleat. Generally, you will be bringing the fabric in toward the middle, if that makes any sense. When you are done, all pleats should be neatly folded and vertical, the hakama should be flat, and the seams aligned with the edges.
7. Fold the outside seams to the center. You now have a narrow rectangle.
8. Crease the material of the hakama short-ways, more or less halfway up its length. Fold the bottom edge up to the top of the fabric.
9. Crease the folded hakama as in step 8, only in thirds this time. Again, fold up from bottom to top. You should now have a small square of fabric.

Folding and tying the ties is a whole 'nother subject -- for now, I'd just fold them flat and not worry about it, just get someone to show you how to do this after class.

It'll probably be pretty frustrating at first (especially after the first time you wash it), but practice makes perfect, or at least good enough.

Thank you. I've folded the Sensei's a few time (with her or his assistance) and I'm good at origami so I should be able to figure it out.

And I still had to take it out of the package- there were strings holding the thing together that I had to cut out (like when you get a new skirt or suit coat).

Sorry, I just was excited. As I've said before, I'm not terribly serious and this is fun for me. The new hakama amused my ADHD for this morning.

(I don't really have ADHD but people think I do. I just get excited easily about new things. I love change!)

[Linda Eskin]

...
But I admit I did run around the house this morning with it tied like junk and my bokken out, terrorizing my fish with a bunch of cuts towards the fish tank. Go ahead, laugh....

And I need a new carrybag Aikido gi plus Iaido gi, plus weapons, plus Kindle, iphone, apples, water, wallet and granola bar = pack mule.

LOL Poor fishies. My horse was a little alarned at my barn-porch jo practice, at first. I think I put a little too much intent into my (not very loud, really) kiai. He's figured out now that it doesn't have anything to do with him.

For the bag, when you order your women's dogi from Bu-Jin, get the Dogi Backpack, and a Weapons Bag. I have both (plus their dogi). Great products.

[Victoria Pitt]

LOL Poor fishies. My horse was a little alarned at my barn-porch jo practice, at first. I think I put a little too much intent into my (not very loud, really) kiai. He's figured out now that it doesn't have anything to do with him.

For the bag, when you order your women's dogi from Bu-Jin, get the Dogi Backpack, and a Weapons Bag. I have both (plus their dogi). Great products.

Well, you have to graduate now to doing cuts mounted. Then you can train your horse in budo too to be a good war horse.

What kind of horse? And more importantly, will he look fetching in war-horse gear? ;) I know how to make some really cool head plumes for the bridle! (no, I am not kidding... previous job)

[Linda Eskin]

Well, you have to graduate now to doing cuts mounted. Then you can train your horse in budo too to be a good war horse.

What kind of horse? And more importantly, will he look fetching in war-horse gear? ;) I know how to make some really cool head plumes for the bridle! (no, I am not kidding... previous job)

He would make a very cool war horse. :-) He's mostly Percheron (draft horse) with some Quarter Horse and Paint thrown in. You can see him here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRCbFLzYm_U Love the plume idea! I may have to talk to you about that. :)

I want to learn more about mounted budo stuff (archery? sword?)... Dressage is really a martial art, too.

What Rainy is really good at is manure fork take-aways. One of these days I want to get a photo of him w/manure fork vs. me (in gi) with jo. Maybe when things green up after some rain. Could be a cool picture, if he'll cooperate.

[Victoria Pitt]

^^ BEAUTIFUL animal. Geesh, he looks good.

Love you for having a partal draft horse too! I used to drive horse and carriages back in college here in Chicago. I got good enough that I would drive in the parades, drive teams, and train them (the horses) some. Most of the stock was Percheron or Percheron crosses (my barn had a think for Morgan/Percheron crosses). My favorite horse was "proud cut" and a danger to have on the street and also far, far, too big. Half Shire, half Belgium, waaaay over a ton, and feet like saucers, literally.

Smartest horse I ever worked with even if he liked to kick the doors cars and eat the planters in front of hotels.

And any time of decoration that you need for driving or any questions you might have, let me know! I kinda miss it but don't miss the awful pay!

( I also love your donkeys... are they friendly too? Most I have known don't like people which makes me sad because they are cute).

[Linda Eskin]

Thanks. :-) They are all very friendly. Eeyore (the smaller donkey) loves attention, but has to be sure you're OK first. He can be a little standoffish. Smart as a whip, though.

Man, that Shire/Belgian sounds like a handful. LOL And huge. Rainy is "only" 1,400 lbs and 16 hands. Big enough, IMHO. :-)

[ramenboy]

...I've folded the Sensei's a few time (with her or his assistance) and I'm good at origami...

oh great. i can see it now. the next thread will be 'my hakama looks like an origami crane'

:P

[Linda Eskin]

Ooh! Nicely done hakama-folding nstructions: http://www.elovirta.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/hakama.png

[Victoria Pitt]

The Shire/Belgium was named "Jake" and yes he was. He was always getting into trouble and cost the company money which is why they hired me to get him to stop being such an asshole on the street. He was scared of going over the Michigan ave. bridge too because it has a metal grate that you can see through. I remember him doing that huffing thing and starting to back up when he saw it. I jumped off the carriage and went by his head and asked him nicely to come with me. I'll never forget his ears going back and forth and then him doing that affection lip thing on my hand and then tentatively putting that big old hoof on the bridge and then then next one. I loved him so much then because he did what I asked him for love of me.

No one else could get him to do it- He'd just jack knife the buggy and kick out and snort.

Was a fine, fine, fine, animal with the biggest heart and willingness to try if you knew how to talk to him, even if his big butt was scared of a trash bag on the street.

Horses are so funny!

And Jerry- um... I wouldn't make that as a topic as that if my hakama looks like a crane, I folded it that way on purpose. Don't give me any ideas...

[ninjaqutie]

Here is a video for folding your hakama: I fold mine three times instead of twice though.
http://vidbunker.com/kendo_how_to_fold_hakama

Here is a video of the way I tie my himo:
http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?how-to-fold-your-hakama=&i=WElUVHlXcWuRpdVl4Wjg

Just a note though, at least in my dojo, when it comes to: tying a hakama on, folding the hakama and folding the himo there are several ways, depending on who you watch. You dojo may have "a way" or your dojo may have many ways.

P.S. I'm sure you look fine in your hakama. Maybe we should have a support group. "Hi, my name is Ashley and I look aweful in ::FILL IN THE BLANK::" Haha. Post a picture and then hear how we don't look as bad as we feel. :D

[Josh Lerner]

There actually is a Japanese word for someone who looks fat because of their clothing - kibutoi, which I assume is written 着太い.

ki = to wear, clothing; the "ki" in "kimono"
butoi = futoi = fat (adjective, not the noun)

Josh

[Keith Larman]

Ah, happy memories of Chúnen Butori Ryú.

Gotta work on that...

[Victoria Pitt]

Here is a video for folding your hakama: I fold mine three times instead of twice though.
http://vidbunker.com/kendo_how_to_fold_hakama

Here is a video of the way I tie my himo:
http://www.vidoemo.com/yvideo.php?how-to-fold-your-hakama=&i=WElUVHlXcWuRpdVl4Wjg

Just a note though, at least in my dojo, when it comes to: tying a hakama on, folding the hakama and folding the himo there are several ways, depending on who you watch. You dojo may have "a way" or your dojo may have many ways.

P.S. I'm sure you look fine in your hakama. Maybe we should have a support group. "Hi, my name is Ashley and I look aweful in ::FILL IN THE BLANK::" Haha. Post a picture and then hear how we don't look as bad as we feel. :D

Oh gosh no... I don't feel like I have a right to wear a hakama- I only am because it is the Iaido uniform. I'd hate for someone to see a photo of me in a hakama and mistake me for someone who thinks they have a clue...

[Janet Rosen]

V, the Bujin womens gi tops are a good place to start. The darts are not perfectly placed - they are made for women younger than me ;-) - but still very well made and shaped nicely.
If you ever decide you really do want a custom fitted made from scratch one and help making it I could assist you in developing a pattern for yourself.

[ninjaqutie]

Oh gosh no... I don't feel like I have a right to wear a hakama- I only am because it is the Iaido uniform. I'd hate for someone to see a photo of me in a hakama and mistake me for someone who thinks they have a clue...

I'm with you on that (or at least partly). I only wear a hakama in iaido as well. I won't be wearing one in aikido for a long time (started in March). I don't think I look too awful in a gi or hakama, though I would like a gi and hakama to fit my curves better (hence I will be buying from bujin when and if I ever get the money).

P.S. Did I ever say I like you? You make me laugh an awful lot on here, and with my line of work, humor is MUCH appreciated. :D

[Rob Watson]

Well, you have to graduate now to doing cuts mounted. Then you can train your horse in budo too to be a good war horse.

What kind of horse? And more importantly, will he look fetching in war-horse gear? ;) I know how to make some really cool head plumes for the bridle! (no, I am not kidding... previous job)

Now, where did I put that mohawk grenade .... gotta love Mr. T!

My horse is a miniature so I'd look pretty dang goofy trying to outfit 'Breezy' as a war horse with me whirling a sword .... I'm 6'4" and Breezy is a bit smaller than the Saint Bernard so I guess I'd have to say my war horse makes me look gigantic (the fat makes me look fat-becasue I'm fat). Might be kind of fun for halloween ...

[Janet Rosen]

My horse is a miniature so I'd look pretty dang goofy trying to outfit 'Breezy' as a war horse with me whirling a sword ....

Robert, thank you SOOO much for my giggle fit of the day; what an image that is....

[Rob Watson]

Robert, thank you SOOO much for my giggle fit of the day; what an image that is....

Are you laughing at me? Just for that I will be posting a photo so you can see that me and my valiant war steed (mare, whatever) are not to be trifled with! HIYO, AWAY BREEZY!

Clippity clump go the coconuts.

[Victoria Pitt]

I'm with you on that (or at least partly). I only wear a hakama in iaido as well. I won't be wearing one in aikido for a long time (started in March). I don't think I look too awful in a gi or hakama, though I would like a gi and hakama to fit my curves better (hence I will be buying from bujin when and if I ever get the money).

P.S. Did I ever say I like you? You make me laugh an awful lot on here, and with my line of work, humor is MUCH appreciated. :D

Aww, that is very kind of you to say. :)

Last night, I was properly fitted into my Iaido uniform and I looked okay in it. I think the 100 yards of obi wrapped around my waist helped me look super svelte... Of course then I had to deal with a new issue- tripping- But that only happens when I kneel. I have to say that the hakama was the perfect size for me. It hits length wise exactly as it should. It is VERY heavy however. I have a new respect for yudansha now. I also know that if I ever do reach black belt in Aikido, I will wear a indigo cotton hakama for daily practice and the black one only for seminars, etc. The indigo one seems soooo much lighter!

Thanks again for the folding tips. You should get a rank just for getting your hakama tied properly and then folded properly. A nice lady helped me with it last night and was having a ball laughing at me trying to learn but the bow was so nice at the end. Getting the damn thing on took about 2 hours though... Much, much, much respect to you guys.

[Shadowfax]

Are you laughing at me? Just for that I will be posting a photo so you can see that me and my valiant war steed (mare, whatever) are not to be trifled with! HIYO, AWAY BREEZY!

Clippity clump go the coconuts.

Hmmm you know I actually know a martial artist... who has a horse... that we refer to as the war mare.... whose name happens to be Breeze....:p

One of these days I do plan to get a pic of me riding my horse in my Hakima...:D

[ninjaqutie]

I also realized I never answered one of your questions. The little plastic spoon is just for iaido. It goes into your obi. It is not worn in aikido because ukemi would hurt. You should be able to take it out though. :) Also, you will be putting on your hakama in a jiffy in no time at all. Folding it gets easier too. Just keep at it.

Do you like the bow at the end? I leave my himo dangling. No one in my dojo does the bow. I have only seen it online, so I haven't bothered trying it myself as of yet.

[Victoria Pitt]

I also realized I never answered one of your questions. The little plastic spoon is just for iaido. It goes into your obi. It is not worn in aikido because ukemi would hurt. You should be able to take it out though. :) Also, you will be putting on your hakama in a jiffy in no time at all. Folding it gets easier too. Just keep at it.

Do you like the bow at the end? I leave my himo dangling. No one in my dojo does the bow. I have only seen it online, so I haven't bothered trying it myself as of yet.

The lady who helped me is from Japan so we did it "how we do in Japan" way. She made the bow and it was really nice. I don't know- do they do the bow in Aikido? I have always seen like a knot thing but never paid that much attention to it. Iaido is not rolling all over the floor so you get to stay pretty as you eviscerate people. I can understand the pretty bow. Aikido, well.. as I said, I'm lucky if I am still stressed at the end of class.

I keep trying to find this video on youtube where the poor guy is going and going against this yudansha and his clothes come open but he keeps going anyway. Poor sap.

[Janet Rosen]

I don't know- do they do the bow in Aikido?.
I've trained in a variety of styles, and, yeah, most folks do.
I never had a problem taking ukemi with the plastic keeper tucked in my obi, either.

[Kent Enfield]

The little plastic spoon is just for iaido.I'd say it's for every art other than aikido that uses hakama: kendo, iaido, atarashii naginata, the koryu I've been involved with, nearly ad infinitum. And like Janet, I've never felt pain with the koshibera

The lady who helped me is from Japan so we did it "how we do in Japan" way.Be aware that when a Japanese person describes something as "how we do it in Japan", they're as likely to be describing a personal preference as they are a national trait. I've seen more ways to tie hakama in Japan than I can count.

ETA: If you're talking about jujimusubi (the cross shaped knot), it's generally more formal than a square knot and its kin. To me, tying jujimusubi in run of the mill practice hakama looks out of place. For regular iaido, kendo, or jo practice, I do basically a square knot and tuck the otherwise dangling himo under the others. I usually only tie jujimusubi when I'm in montsuki and striped hakama.

[ramenboy]

I'd say it's for every art other than aikido that uses hakama: kendo, iaido, atarashii naginata, the koryu I've been involved with, nearly ad infinitum. And like Janet, I've never felt pain with the koshibera.

i agree. if you're falling correctly, then you really wouldn't make direct contact with the mat directly in the middle of your back... the hera is directly in the middle 'hooked' on your obi. that area doesn't make contact with the mat if you're rolling diagonally from shoulder to opposite hip.

also, when i first started doing iai, i found out that we (aikido) are the only ones who wear our gi pants under the hakama. in iai, kendo, etc, there isn't any ukemi per se, so no reason for us to roll around. and the jackets are longer so there's no 'skin' showing through the side of the hakama... so no need for gi pants.

[ninjaqutie]

I guess I should have said this before, but I don't wear the koshibera. In fact, no one in my iaido class uses one. We just wear aikido gi. I am just going off of what I was told by some other people I have spoken to. Guess I should have said that before. Sorry if I mislead you all!

[Kent Enfield]

I guess I should have said this before, but I don't wear the koshibera.Huh? Koshibera isn't something you wear. It's the name of the little "spoon" on most budo hakama.

[Victoria Pitt]

also, when i first started doing iai, i found out that we (aikido) are the only ones who wear our gi pants under the hakama. in iai, kendo, etc, there isn't any ukemi per se, so no reason for us to roll around. and the jackets are longer so there's no 'skin' showing through the side of the hakama... so no need for gi pants.

Unless, you have Aikido directly after or before Iaido and you need to do a "quick change" and don't feel like showing the dojo your cute underwear.

Just a thought.:eek: ;)

[ninjaqutie]

Huh? Koshibera isn't something you wear. It's the name of the little "spoon" on most budo hakama.

I know what it is and none of us have it in our hakama. We wear aikido hakama, not iaido hakama.

[Victoria Pitt]

I know what it is and none of us have it in our hakama. We wear aikido hakama, not iaido hakama.

That is why I was asking if there was a difference- I haven't seen the spoon thing on any of the hakama that I've observed in Aikido... I also think I got my Iaido set someplace totally different than where we usually buy stuff in our dojo on the advice of a friend of mine who is a Kendo-Iaido junkie.

I also know that the hakama I have now I'd never want to wear for Aikido because that back plate really is way stiff. I thought Aikido hakama had rubber in theirs because of the rolling?

[ramenboy]

We wear aikido hakama, not iaido hakama.

hey ash

they're really not different. not that i can see at least... our dojo orders our supplies mainly from kiyota co. when i first started wearing my hakama, i wanted to find out what the difference was between 'aikido' and 'kendo' hakama, if there was one. so i'm on the phone with mr kiyota (really nice guy) and i asked him what the difference was. he said 'oh, little bit difference.'
so i said, 'really? they're different?'
'little bit.'
'what's the difference?'
'about 10 dolla.'

so my guess, not so much different. the older yamato sakura hakama i had before had a hera and i really liked having it, so the back wouldn't sag. my iwata hakama didn't come with hera, and i kinda miss it:o

kent, thanx for your additional insight

vic, ok you're right about the quick change. you win :P

[Darryl Cowens]

so i said, 'really? they're different?'
'little bit.'
'what's the difference?'
'about 10 dolla.'



LOL... that quote would so work for Mr Miyagi....

[RED]

I make my gi look fat.

Round is a shape, and round things roll.:D

[RED]

I have an aikido hakama, and the difference I've found is in the stitching. There is alot more stitching to hold the thing together. Also, there are no hard things in the back..its soft, makes rolling chill!

[ninjaqutie]

hey ash

they're really not different. not that i can see at least... our dojo orders our supplies mainly from kiyota co. when i first started wearing my hakama, i wanted to find out what the difference was between 'aikido' and 'kendo' hakama, if there was one. so i'm on the phone with mr kiyota (really nice guy) and i asked him what the difference was. he said 'oh, little bit difference.'
so i said, 'really? they're different?'
'little bit.'
'what's the difference?'
'about 10 dolla.'


In my dojo, the aikido hakama doesn't have the spoon, the koshiita is a flexible rubber (most times), the himo are longer because you tie both in the front (or at least we do in our dojo) and have more stitching for durability. I would say that there are differences. Are they huge, no, but they exist. Same thing with an iaido gi and an aikido gi. They are essentially the same, but aikido gi's are thicker, more durable and often don't have a tie at the top that the iaido one's do. Again, I guess I should state that at least this is what I have found in my dojo and from talking to people from a few other dojos. I'm sure this is subject to change depending where you dojo is, affiliation and sensei....

[Victoria Pitt]

My hakama also came with special powers...

[ninjaqutie]

Mine didn't :(

[dalen7]

heh, dont want to say what my gi makes me look like... well, not even sure - but it is funny.

Since I bought it, the gi has gone from nice long to having the arms creep up to almost my elbows, and the pants... its just hilarious.

Trying to hold off until reaching 2nd kyu before getting another gi... as they arent that cheap. ;)

Peace

dAlen

[ninjaqutie]

My knee squares are on my theighs when I sit in seiza! When I stand, they cover about half of my shin. HAHA.

[Janet Rosen]

TI also know that the hakama I have now I'd never want to wear for Aikido because that back plate really is way stiff. I thought Aikido hakama had rubber in theirs because of the rolling?

Nope. But if you ever need to remake the koshita, or are making a hak from scratch, plumbers gasket is the thing to use. And I was told this yrs ago by a guy from Chicago :-) He was right, I've used plumbers gasket 3 times now and it just rocks.

[YogaRen]

I rather like how I look in a keikogi, and in white in general.

I practice yoga full time as well. My "other uniform" is quite - um... small - in comparison to a keikogi. I see plenty of myself in a mirror every day and maybe I am desensitized to it. Although I do not train in front of a mirror in the dojo. I train with all boys. I'm proud to be the only girl on the mats. I do wear a modest (and very affective) sports bra under my jacket in case of any wardrobe malfunctions. However, my jacket seems to stay just fine. I tie my obi rather high, right at my ribs. It stays, the jacket stays and I like it there. I am of the "all waist and no legs" body type and the boxy jacket sort of makes me look like I have no shoulders. But I figure it's a training uniform, and I wear it with pride.

Wear your gi with confidence. It's not your body (the way you look) that your uke should be paying attention to anyway.

[mari]

I don't know how long you've been practising, Victoria - but since you joined this forum quite recently I'll assume you're new. Beginners tend to tie their belts at their waist, and it does tend to make men look as if they have very long legs, and women look as if they have a large bust.

Just a suggestion, but try tying your belt around your hips with the knot firmly at your one point, and then tug your jacket down underneath. This might help.

I hate mirrors in the dojo because they make the light shine off my bald head!

With all due respect, please do not advise a woman to tie her belt accross the hips. That just doesn't work for women, i've tried it :p
The whole pile of belt, hakama, pants just ends up at your waist anyway, because is the closest narrow part of the body, and it is quite uncomfortable. But i would say, that is the advise every guy in a dojo should get, its quite fashion forward too.. i guess ;)

[Azz]

My gi makes me look fat too Victoria. It is by far the least flattering outfit in my entire wardrobe. Luckily I am having far too much fun on the mat to care all that much and I am really happy and quite vain ( in a modest sort of way?) in general and figure I look awesome anywhere anyway :p .
My hair also won't stay in its pony tail during training and I quite often look as if I have been dragged backward through a hedge while rubbing my face in beetroot. Flattering.. NOT. Good thing I like to larf at myself.
However, we do have a mirror in our dojo and it's the best mirror ever. One side (the left) does a true reflection and the other side (right) is a super stretch slimming mirror. You look about 10 kgs lighter!! Fantastic!! So when I do catch sight of myself looking like a grinning stuffed scarecrow (and care- which is not often) I just sidle over to the right side of the mirror and feel even better.
Now before everyone gets all concerned that this is not a deep or meaningful approach ,I just wanted to express a lighter side to this subject and just have a poke at my own triviality with concerns to wardrobe and appearance in todays society, particularly for women.

Have a blast training everyone,

Azz

[barron]

Does anyone think we should merge this forum with "The Spirituality of Aikido" or should we just go practoce?

[Carrie Campbell]

Possible (hopefully somewhat humorous) Solutions:

1) Wear a larger gi so the waist appears smaller. :D
2) Practice long enough to wear a darker belt than white. :cool:
3) Before you tie your belt, take hold of either side right at the front and extend to squeeze the middle like Mulan when she first dons her dad’s outfit in the movie. :eek: It will loosen up by the time you’re done stretching...
4) For keeping the belt down below the waist, build up enough substance around the belly to form a ceiling for the belt to help you keep it down. As you breathe during practice, and it slides up, push it down again. :o (Possibly counterproductive to looking as thin as normal in a gi...)
5) Sandy, Love the hair. ;)

[Janet Rosen]

2) Practice long enough to wear a darker belt than white. :cool:


THAT'S why my gi makes me look fat: HORIZONTAL STRIPES!!! Thanks for solving the mystery, Carrie!
Sensei, may I wear this nice seersucker gi with the vertical pinstripes? :)

BTW...to add to the litany: when my training advanced enough that I was taking larger rolls, my glasses started falling off. I informed my husband that I was going to look into getting contact lenses for training. Ever practical, he asked "why don't you just get the band that attaches to the eyeglasses to hold them on?" I replied "I don't want to look like a dork!" (apologies to the guys who wear them...) "Now wait a minute," sez my dearly beloved, "you are out there all red in the face and sweaty and your hair limp with sweat and stuffed into heavy white cotton that makes you look 30 pounds heavier than you are...and you are worried about how you look?!" To which I could only quietly and politely say, "well...yes, I am!"

[Rob Watson]

"well...yes, I am!"

Some of us know better than to ask ...

I have 20/200 vision and severe astigmatism. I figure the first thing that's going to happen in a real life scrap is my glasses will go flying so I never train with glasses. Since I don't know what I'm missing it does not bother me. OK, so I have trained a few times with glasses but within minutes the sweat was so think I really could not see at all so had to take them off anyway.

Lots of times I've had to help folks locate their contacts ... some of them pop them into their mouths for a quick rinse and then pop them into their eyes ... disgusting.

[Janet Rosen]

Lots of times I've had to help folks locate their contacts ... some of them pop them into their mouths for a quick rinse and then pop them into their eyes ... disgusting.

Eww, gross.... I use soft lenses, they don't pop out.

[ninjaqutie]

Uck.. me one of my old boyfriends used to do that. He actually swallowed one once!

[Linda Eskin]

I hope this doesn't violate the commercial posting rule - I'm just a fan/customer, and since we're talking about women's dogi...

http://www.bujindesign.com/ is having a holiday sale. 15% off most (all?) products, including their women's dogi. I have the medium weight one, and love it.