Shomanuchi Tenchinage?

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[RED]

I have a fight to settle. There is an argument among my classmates whether or not you can get a tenchinage from shomanuchi.
Can it be done? Or would it be called something else???:confused:

[Ketsan]

I have a fight to settle. There is an argument among my classmates whether or not you can get a tenchinage from shomanuchi.
Can it be done? Or would it be called something else???:confused:

Yep it can. Think sumi otoshi.

[ninjaqutie]

I personally haven't come across this yet, but that means absolutely nothing since I have only been training for 9 months. I imagine it could be done though!

[Adam Huss]

Yeah, cheat. Control their striking hand, then atemi to get them to block with their other hand.

[chillzATL]

It would just be another kokyunage, but not specifically a tenchinage.

[Ketsan]

Or you could meet it as for kote gaeshi ura but taking the gi at the elbow bring uke around to face you and then you can either cut the elbow low or flip it over their head as the other hand cuts the neck making tenchi nage.

There's another way too but it's too difficult to explain. There's three basic ways I can think of off the top of my head.

[Abasan]

You can do 'tenchi nage' from shomenuchi. But its not going to look like the tenchi you get from ryotedori.

The straight up 'easy' way of doing it is from the shin shit toitsu style. Tenchi nage appears as uke starts to shomen. Nage cuts and irimis directly into uke's centerline. He extends ki to bring uke's ki upwards with one hand and his other hand he extends ki downwards from uke's center into aiki sage. So thus you have heaven and earth. This type does not require contact with uke as long as you have captured uke's center upfront.

A lot of the other variations you would probably term them as kyoku throws. Most require that you maintain awase on uke's shomen hand and bring that down even as you atemi to obtain the other hand from uke and use that to bring towards heaven. In each instance, uke does not have to grab your hands, just as long as your connection with them is strong.

But why on earth name it tenchi nage in that instance? All waza would require a heaven and earth component really.

[RED]

I think what I'm getting is either you have to do a lot of hand changes, or if you do do it, it'll just be called something else. ???

[kokyu]

Shomenuchi tenchinage demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJjd5n0l5kk)

And also...

Yokomenuchi tenchinage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta7yrtC2Zkk)

[chillzATL]

Shomenuchi tenchinage demo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJjd5n0l5kk)

And also...

Yokomenuchi tenchinage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta7yrtC2Zkk)

Not sure why they're electing to call them techninage, but technically they're just kokyunage's, not tenchinage's. Tenchinage is very specifically from ryotetori, the same movement from other attacks would not typically be called tenchinage.

[chillzATL]

I think what I'm getting is either you have to do a lot of hand changes, or if you do do it, it'll just be called something else. ???

If the attack is ryotetori, that movement/technique is called tenchinage. The same movement from other attacks is simply a kokyunage.

[Ketsan]

Not sure why they're electing to call them techninage, but technically they're just kokyunage's, not tenchinage's. Tenchinage is very specifically from ryotetori, the same movement from other attacks would not typically be called tenchinage.

They all have the same basic movement, it's only the contact that is different.

[David Maidment]

Or you could meet it as for kote gaeshi ura but taking the gi at the elbow bring uke around to face you and then you can either cut the elbow low or flip it over their head as the other hand cuts the neck making tenchi nage.

That was also what popped into my head what I read the original question.

[Maarten De Queecker]

Or you could meet it as for kote gaeshi ura but taking the gi at the elbow bring uke around to face you and then you can either cut the elbow low or flip it over their head as the other hand cuts the neck making tenchi nage.

There's another way too but it's too difficult to explain. There's three basic ways I can think of off the top of my head.

Taking the Gi isn't exactly safe. You can't really control uke that way.

[RED]

In closing, when in doubt, call it kokyunage?

[chillzATL]

In closing, when in doubt, call it kokyunage?

That would be my opinion yes.

[Maarten De Queecker]

In closing, when in doubt, call it kokyunage?
That's what my teacher always does. We end up doing kokyunage most of the time, that way :D

[Ketsan]

Taking the Gi isn't exactly safe. You can't really control uke that way.

Depends. In our dojo it's done with a whipping motion and onto a strike, it takes a pretty good uke not to end up in hospital. :D

[RED]

Well, kokyu is in every technique anyways... so you really are never wrong when you call it kokyunage.
O'sensei really didn't name anything anyways; other than kokyu; he really left it to his students to name it all.. but even that was out of necessity.