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Demetrio Cereijo
11-09-2009, 10:27 AM
There's rumours around here about Doshu Moriteru Ueshiba promoting (sending letters to Aikikai representatives around the world) the policy of wearing hakama from the start like in the old days.

Can anyone confirm/deny this.

Thanks.

Victoria Pitt
11-09-2009, 04:24 PM
He probably logged into this forum and read my thread about how my pants don't stay up, feared that he would lose people who are practicing or might want to practice aikido because they see me trying to take ukemi with my pants around my ankles and being horrified.

Sound damage control on his part, I think!

Maarten De Queecker
11-09-2009, 05:01 PM
I don't know why it matters when you get one? It's not like you suddenly get +3 to aikido skills when wearing one. They're just pants. Pants that look like a skirt, yet still look great somehow.

And honestly I don't care what Doshu says. I don't really like the political system that is the aikikai organisation.

Tinyboy344
11-09-2009, 05:04 PM
And honestly I don't care what Doshu says. I don't really like the political system that is the aikikai organisation.

Whaaaa..? Aikido has politics???:eek: ... Noooo waaaay.....

Janet Rosen
11-09-2009, 05:16 PM
He probably logged into this forum and read my thread ....

Just about lost a mouthful of hot tea on the keyboard on that one, Victoria. You are SOOOO welcome to aikiweb!

ninjaqutie
11-09-2009, 05:31 PM
Hhhmm.... I have not heard anything about that. Honestly the wear a hakama from day one versus save the hakama for yudansha dilemma isn't an issue for me. Hakama or no hakama, I am there to train. Sure, they are nice, but a hakama doesn't define an aikido student anymore then a gi does. I wear a hakama in iaido and it is more of a pain then anything else. I'm glad I don't have to wear one.

Would be interested in hearing more about this rumor though. This is the first time for me! :)

lbb
11-09-2009, 05:32 PM
Sure, they are nice

No they're not. They're a royal pain in the ass. IMO.

crbateman
11-09-2009, 08:30 PM
No they're not. They're a royal pain in the ass. IMO.Ditto! ;)

RED
11-09-2009, 09:05 PM
I don't know why it matters when you get one? It's not like you suddenly get +3 to aikido skills when wearing one. They're just pants. Pants that look like a skirt, yet still look great somehow.

And honestly I don't care what Doshu says. I don't really like the political system that is the aikikai organisation.

No but my charisma got +2 :hypno:

ninjaqutie
11-09-2009, 09:11 PM
Sure, they are nice......I wear a hakama in iaido and it is more of a pain then anything else. I'm glad I don't have to wear one.

No they're not. They're a royal pain in the ass. IMO.

Hhmm... I thought I said the same thing, minus the ass of course. :D Just out of curiosity Mary, what color is your hakama? I sense you are a blue hakama wearer, but that is just a guess. :)

Shadowfax
11-09-2009, 09:52 PM
He probably logged into this forum and read my thread about how my pants don't stay up, feared that he would lose people who are practicing or might want to practice aikido because they see me trying to take ukemi with my pants around my ankles and being horrified.

Sound damage control on his part, I think!

That or the idea of pink monkeys was just way too much....:p

Or maybe he heard me talking about getting mine with a pink poodle on the bottom....

Chris Li
11-10-2009, 12:26 AM
There's rumours around here about Doshu Moriteru Ueshiba promoting (sending letters to Aikikai representatives around the world) the policy of wearing hakama from the start like in the old days.

Can anyone confirm/deny this.

Thanks.

From Aikikai.or.jp:

Hakama are worn by men from shodan and women from 3rd kyu. This is the custom at Hombu Dojo. However, if you wish, you can wear a hakama from the time you register.

They'd change it there first if there were any truth to the rumor, I think.

Best,

Chris

rob_liberti
11-10-2009, 05:11 AM
My understanding was that pre-aikido, people didn't wear hakama as they were learning jujitsu, and they didn't wear hakama as they were learning aiki jujitsu, but once they started learning aiki no jitsu they would start wearing hakama - because I assume, because no one could throw them anymore and so the hakama would not wear out.

In aikido, we tend to just make stronger, more durable hakamas. Maybe it is not supposed to be about the equipment... Something I think about when I have to tie that bad boy on.

Rob

Ketsan
11-10-2009, 06:00 AM
There's rumours around here about Doshu Moriteru Ueshiba promoting (sending letters to Aikikai representatives around the world) the policy of wearing hakama from the start like in the old days.

Can anyone confirm/deny this.

Thanks.

I shall be acquiring shares in a hakama making company. :D

Peter Goldsbury
11-10-2009, 06:29 AM
Hello Demetrio,

Please tell us more details about these rumors, if possible by tomorrow evening. I shall be meeting Doshu in the Netherlands over the weekend and will have the chance to ask him directly.

Best wishes,

PAG

There's rumours around here about Doshu Moriteru Ueshiba promoting (sending letters to Aikikai representatives around the world) the policy of wearing hakama from the start like in the old days.

Can anyone confirm/deny this.

Thanks.

lbb
11-10-2009, 07:07 AM
Hhmm... I thought I said the same thing, minus the ass of course. :D Just out of curiosity Mary, what color is your hakama? I sense you are a blue hakama wearer, but that is just a guess. :)

I'm not an any hakama wearer any more, thank God. When I wore one, it was black, like everyone else in shindo muso.

Flintstone
11-10-2009, 07:28 AM
My understanding was that pre-aikido, people didn't wear hakama as they were learning jujitsu, and they didn't wear hakama as they were learning aiki jujitsu, but once they started learning aiki no jitsu they would start wearing hakama - because I assume, because no one could throw them anymore and so the hakama would not wear out.
Uh? Where did you get this from? :confused:

ninjaqutie
11-10-2009, 03:01 PM
I'm not an any hakama wearer any more, thank God. When I wore one, it was black, like everyone else in shindo muso.

Ah, interesting. :)

mickeygelum
11-10-2009, 11:36 PM
When I wore one, it was black, like everyone else in shindo muso.
Mary Malmros

Really? I earned dan grade in Shindo Muso Ryu Jodo in 1983, and there was no hakama involved, if you do not mind, who required hakama for dan grades, or training at all? But, then again, I am an old fart and things have changed.

Train well,

Mickey

Keith Larman
11-10-2009, 11:48 PM
I don't know why it matters when you get one? It's not like you suddenly get +3 to aikido skills when wearing one

What?!?!?! I thought they were magic aiki-power pants!?!?!?!

My understanding was that pre-aikido, people didn't wear hakama as they were learning jujitsu, and they didn't wear hakama as they were learning aiki jujitsu, but once they started learning aiki no jitsu they would start wearing hakama - because I assume, because no one could throw them anymore and so the hakama would not wear out.

It is always good to remind one's self that the signal to noise ratio is very low with many stories... ;)


And to be completely serious, I have to ask... Why does it matter anyway? Who cares?

Now if someone starts requiring wearing pink tutu's I'm gonna protest. But apart from that it seems like a rather minor thing...

Victoria Pitt
11-11-2009, 12:06 AM
Now if someone starts requiring wearing pink tutu's I'm gonna protest. But apart from that it seems like a rather minor thing...

But what if you wanted to wear a pink tutu just because?

Mine would be red though as that I am not a fan of pink.

Fred Little
11-11-2009, 12:06 AM
I'm not an any hakama wearer any more, thank God. When I wore one, it was black, like everyone else in shindo muso.

Not to dredge up bad memories, but if one might ask, which line of SMR?

Janet Rosen
11-11-2009, 01:36 AM
I like the hakama as a garment - they are beautifully cut and made (and I hope never to have to make another one) - and if I had my druthers I'd have a grey silk one, thank you very much :-)

Demetrio Cereijo
11-11-2009, 03:31 AM
Prof. Goldsbury, I've sent you a PM.

Maarten De Queecker
11-11-2009, 03:38 AM
No but my charisma got +2 :hypno:
No, that's only because a hakama has +10 to "Illusion of wearer's awesomess" and +10 to "vanity" :D

Rennis Buchner
11-11-2009, 09:51 AM
My understanding was that pre-aikido, people didn't wear hakama as they were learning jujitsu, and they didn't wear hakama as they were learning aiki jujitsu, but once they started learning aiki no jitsu they would start wearing hakama - because I assume, because no one could throw them anymore and so the hakama would not wear out.

In aikido, we tend to just make stronger, more durable hakamas. Maybe it is not supposed to be about the equipment... Something I think about when I have to tie that bad boy on.

Rob

Sounds like nonsense to me. In the case of aikido I clearly remember reading an interview at one point where they said that pre-war all students were expected to wear hakama simply because to not do so was (judo aside) somewhat akin to walking around in your underwear. Due to the limited supplies during and after the war, the wearing of hakama was relaxed due to the times, but the wearing of them by senior people is still obviously encouraged as it is "proper attire" in aikido and most traditional martial arts in Japan. Even in modern Daito-ryu you still see people like Kondo sensei apologize for breaking proper etiquette when he takes off his hakama to make it easier to see his footwork.

Random thoughts,
Rennis Buchner

David Orange
11-11-2009, 10:00 AM
...I clearly remember reading an interview at one point where they said that pre-war all students were expected to wear hakama simply because to not do so was (judo aside) somewhat akin to walking around in your underwear.....

Jeez....I'm just glad we never wore the things in yoseikan except on rare formal occasions.

Mochizuki Sensei created the red-stripe black belt to differentiate his system from judo and he always called it aikido. And in normal, day-to-day training, we just wore dogi.

I remember watching an American guy demonstrate iaido once and he caught his foot on the hem of his hakama just as he was drawing the blade and almost fell on his face.

Apart from the fact that they were common daily wear for Japanese men in traditional clothing, I never saw the purpose or value of training with hakama.

Best to all.

David

ninjaqutie
11-11-2009, 12:27 PM
But what if you wanted to wear a pink tutu just because?

Mine would be red though as that I am not a fan of pink.

I myself would prefer a very soft pink! I actually found a pink hakama online and jokingly told my husband I would get it. When my sensei decided to get us into hakamas for iaido my husband jokingly mentioned me wearing a pink hakama. My sensei just gave me "the look" and said only bue or black. Men just don't appreciate colors.... :rolleyes: Gray would be nice too though. Another one of my fav colors.

David Maidment
11-11-2009, 12:40 PM
In the case of aikido I clearly remember reading an interview at one point where they said that pre-war all students were expected to wear hakama simply because to not do so was (judo aside) somewhat akin to walking around in your underwear.

Saotome sensei said something to that effect (the story was of O-Sensei refusing to let him train when he had forgotten his hakama). There may be others who have told similar stories.

My source for the above was from the afterword of The Principles of Aikido by Saotome sensei. In it, he mentions that, because of the importance placed on the hakama by O-Sensei, all of his students are encouraged to wear one from Day One. Does anyone know if this is still the case within ASU?

Garth Jones
11-11-2009, 05:42 PM
The ASU policy, as I know it, is that hakama may be worn after the first rank test (6th kyu) and really should be worn after 3rd kyu.

JohnRN
11-12-2009, 09:46 PM
Garth is correct. The ASU Handbook states, " You will be expected to wear hakama (dark blue or black) after receiving the 6th kyu grade"

This came from the latest ASU handbook (3rd Ed), page 9 by the word Hakama.

John

Linda Eskin
11-13-2009, 12:49 AM
Just about lost a mouthful of hot tea on the keyboard on that one, Victoria. You are SOOOO welcome to aikiweb!

OMG, me too, 'cept it was Gatoraid. :p Actually LOLing over that one, Victoria.

Johnny Danielsen
11-25-2009, 11:42 AM
How long, did it take you guys before you had to put on the hakama???

Shadowfax
11-25-2009, 01:49 PM
6 months. As soon as I tested 6th kyu sensei really encouraged it. To be honest I kinda like it. Even though I'm still getting used to it I feel better. More dressed, polished something cant put into words at the moment. I guess for the simple fact I'm no longer training in my "underwear" so to speak. ;)

aikidoc
11-25-2009, 04:09 PM
Peter. What did you find out. Curious minds want to know. :).

Peter Goldsbury
11-25-2009, 05:27 PM
John,

There has been no change to the Hombu's policy on the wearing of hakama, as stated on the website (in the section concerning overseas visitors).

PAG

Peter. What did you find out. Curious minds want to know. :).

aikidoc
11-25-2009, 10:04 PM
Thanks. Now the rumor is put to rest. We need a snopes.com for aikido rumors.

Janet Rosen
11-25-2009, 11:22 PM
Thanks. Now the rumor is put to rest. We need a snopes.com for aikido rumors.

We have one, it's called Ask Professor PAG!!! :)