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njnoexit
03-30-2002, 10:41 PM
I was reading the results of one of the poles this morning and it said,"Do you think running away from an attacker is a valid method of resolving conflict using aikido?"
and the result was 477 votes (64%). now according to the Art of Peace -
By Morihei Ueshiba it says "In the Art of Peace we never attack. An attack is proof that one is out of control.Never run away from any kind of challenge, but do not try to suppress or control an opponent unnaturally. Let attackers come any way they like and then blend with them. Never chase after opponents. Redirect each attack and get firmly behind it."

now if you do not know that paragraph you have not read nor studyed the art of peace.

now after reading that and seeing the results of the poles.... is there somthing I am missing here?

Gene McGloin
03-31-2002, 08:50 AM
Just a side note. "The Art of Peace" was not written by Ueshiba Morihei. That book was written by John Stevens and is a compilation of Ueshiba osensei poems which Mr. Stevens had translated.

Regards,

Gene McGloin

Bruce Baker
04-02-2002, 10:56 AM
There is a double meaning in what O'Sensei writes, and what he apparently means ... some times even he admitted that he didn't know what he was saying, it was the gods speaking through him.

As for John Steven sensei, he too admits to translating to the "meaning of the words", not the exact translation of the text. Supporting these translations are supporting statements by K. Ueshiba, who approves of the these interpretations.

( If you get a chance to do a seminar with John Stevens do it, it is quite a lot of fun. He sometimes brings materials not readily available in bookstores, plus you can speak to him after the seminar, a very nice man is he.)

The two edged sword is written word, verses the practiced methods of society. Hey, the communist manifesto was one of the great freedom documents of the twentieth century, but the implimentation of freedon for communism was quite different, wasn't it? So too, it is up to all of us to establish the spirit of the word over the letter of the word as to its meaning and implimentation. Aikido tend to be the practice which creates meaning.

Something like, I went to the Circus from another country. I didn't understand what they were saying, but I laugh, I cried, and I cheered none the less at what I saw.

Isn't Aikido like that, we "get it", even without the words?

njnoexit
04-03-2002, 10:18 AM
mabye it iwas a mis translation or somthing?. or its like the bible and can be interprested in many different ways. well anyway I have work now thanks for the information it clears up alot for me..... sorta haha.

njnoexit
04-03-2002, 10:25 AM
mabye he ment to say "do not give up with any kind of challenge" instead of "Never run away from any kind of challenge" then it can be interpreted... like it means run like to hinder just not literaly run like one would to get away from an opponent. mabye? well thats what I assume. any way tell me what you think.....
(I am late for work now :( )

Brian Vickery
04-03-2002, 12:58 PM
Originally posted by njnoexit
Never run away from any kind of challenge

now after reading that and seeing the results of the poles.... is there somthing I am missing here?

Hello Adrain,

Yes, I do believe you are missing something ...you must apply this 'philosophy' based on the context of the situation.

If you're in the dojo, and are challenged to prove the effectiveness of a particular technique, or aikido as an art itself, then I feel you must/might address the challenge (...again, it all depends on the context of the challenge - challenger).

BUT, if you're attacked out in the street, particulary by someone weilding a weapon, this is a self defense situation ...and in my humble opinion, if you do the have the opportunity to turn & run, yet decide to stand & fight, you've made a grave mistake! (...no pun intended!!!)

Also, depending which state you happen to be in, laws concerning 'self defense' are very specific. Some states REQUIRE you to run away if you have the opportunity to do so; and practically every state removes your right to self defense if you're engaging in combat by agreement (aka: a fight!). The bottom line is that you're going to end up in jail if you attempt to defend 'aikido' against a challenge!

If you are interested in looking into your states statutes concerning self defense, try this website to get you started:

http://www.prairienet.org/~scruffy/f.htm

...just my 2 cents worth!

Paul Clark
04-03-2002, 01:59 PM
What's all this about Poles running away? They fought bravely against the German invasion in '39 . . .

sorry, couldn't resist.

njnoexit
04-12-2002, 10:40 PM
hahaha very intelegent!

njnoexit
04-12-2002, 10:44 PM
Ohh yea and brian thanks alot It helped clear up it alot. and Naturally i would run from som guy saying give me your money while pointing a knife at me. good thing I do a mile everynight :) but there are interactions through everyday life that can not be avoided. and the best was to solve them is to act.... so I figure that you should only run away from some situations not all.

ndiegel
04-13-2002, 10:15 AM
What if he had a knife, but you were just coming home from Kenjitsu practice? :D

Noah

Johan Tibell
04-13-2002, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by ndiegel
What if he had a knife, but you were just coming home from Kenjitsu practice? :D

Noah
Have given this one some thought.

1. The I have a bigger knife than you scenario (Crocodile Dundee). Someone going home after iaido practice... :D

2. We usualy go out to some pub after a yearly training camp we arange in Gothenburg every year. 60 or so under-cover martial artists. Now if only someone just could pick a fight with one of us... :D

- Johan