View Full Version : Disconnect to the Food Chain

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Marc Abrams
09-16-2009, 08:54 AM
Off topic, but oh well. I am not a big PETA fan. I suppose they have their place in the world, but I don't think that you win anyone over to the other side through militant and shock tactics.

I do it because it is right for me. As Ghandi said "be the change you want to see in the world."

To put it back on topic, I think that this is what is important about the whole issue of PC, being offended, offensive etc. At some point we have to realize that in order to transcend stuff, we need to start emulating and living how we think we should and set the example.

There are plenty of people willing to be victims or want to feel special because they are doing something different. I don't have time for that nonsense!

I think it is more important to just do what you do and just maybe folks will become more aware.

that said, Don't patronize Dunken Donuts!


(Had to get that in there!....doing my best Kayne West imitation!)

Yea say Hi to Wade! and thanks again for the invite. Not sure I can get two weekends out of my wife though!


Your point about the care of chickens goes straight to the "heart" of a scary disconnect that many people in modern society have with the food supply.

Last year, my son-in-law and myself organized a pig roast for my grand-daughter's first birthday party (I told people that this was my small contribution at insuring that my grand-daughter does not grow up to be a Jewish American Princess!). I was shocked at the number of new parents that were offended that their children would have to see a dead animal on a rotisserie over a charcoal pit. Such horrors that children must be exposed to something other than meat coming from styrofoam and wrapper! This year, we roasted a lamb (separate party this year-> daughter's insistence!) and again the concern that some parents expressed! We have also become proud "parents" of a dozen chicken hens (two months old) to use for eggs and later for meat. I have an active vegetable and herb garden for many years now. I NEVER take my children, grandchild to any fast food place. I simply refuse to eat that swill or feed it to the people I love and care about!

The abuses of the industrial food corporations to both vegetables, fruit and meats exist because of the severe disconnect that people have from the sources of the food that they eat. If you have not read "Fast Food Nation", then it is a book that should be mandatory reading in schools (at a minimum).

My wife and I make every effort possible to eat has healthy as possible. We try to buy "organic" foods from farms and small suppliers. We knowingly pay more, we knowingly prepare home cooked meals for our family. This effort is not only healthy for us, but we do believe that it is important for people to be in touch with what it is that we put in our body. We think that this helps to develop a healthy respect for the world in which we live in so that we have the sensitivity and respect to be disturbed when we see the abuses that your link has shown.


Marc Abrams

Keith Larman
09-16-2009, 10:15 AM
Another great resource...

In Defense of Food by Michael Pollan. (http://www.amazon.com/Defense-Food-Eaters-Manifesto/dp/0143114964/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253116965&sr=8-1)

Yeah, I'm no repressed hippie, but we try to bake our own bread (I'm infatuated with sourdough cultures and "ancient" bread methods), grow what we can in our own yard, shop the local farmer's markets when we can (support the local, smaller growers and it ensures you get a diverse diet), and try to avoid processed stuff as much as possible. We started teaching my daughter about food early on as much as possible. Yeah, she likes a cheeseburger now and then (so do I), but she also knows how to bake bread herself, how to garden, etc.

I remember when I was first married bringing home a chicken to roast for a special dinner. I asked my wife to get the chicken from the fridge -- she screamed when she opened the package. I couldn't figure out what the problem was and she finally said "the chicken has *FEET*". I was baffled. "Yes, chickens do have feet. This one used to have feathers, a head and internal organs too. What's the problem?"

She had just never seen a chicken where the feet hadn't been removed.

Anyway, I made sure my daughter understood where things came from from as early as possible.

I think one of the biggest problems we face is our separation from our food. We eat processed crap made by industrial methods and that includes most of the meat we eat. I use an almost local butcher's place that has organic and grass fed meats when I have the time to get there.

Interestingly for a while there we got into some bad habits due to being so very busy with life. And we let a lot of this stuff slip. In that time I put on about 4 inches around my middle (I ain't a small guy to begin with). Shoot. So I started paying attention again and got away from processed foods. So more fresh fruit, veggies, meats, eggs, etc. The only carbs I allowed myself were what comes in veggies and fresh fruit and any bread I made myself. Within a few months all 4 of those centrally placed inches of fat simply went away. I ate as much if not more. I felt better. No diet per se. Just eating "real" food, the food my ancestors would have been eating going back thousands of years. No commercial breads, pastas, etc. Just fresh, real food that actually goes bad in a few days.

Real food. Seems pretty simple...

Kevin Leavitt
09-16-2009, 12:50 PM
Good stuff. I think you are dead on Mark. Awareness, critical thinking, and mindfulness is really what is key.

Barbara Kingsolver has a great book on the subject that I think is good reading for anyone.


I think that if PETA were to concentrate more on this approach and strategy that it would be much more effective.

I have no issue with Pig Roast or my kids seeing it really, actually I think that is a lot more honest and forthright than buying it in a box and not really thinking about what it really is or how it got there in your local supermarket freezer.

Compassion is what is important.

I think hunting is a good thing for a number of reasons as long as it is done ethically. Fox hunting..that is not good IMO. it is entertainment for rich folk. (Sorry if your into it guys, but I doubt we have too many people in aikido that are!). However Deer Hunting done with the right weapon I think is probably more of a act of compassion and honesty than it is to not do it at all.

So I am not one of those Vegetarian peeps that go around judging others in a black or white way. That is stupid and unrealistic. I do think though that I think if more people thought the way you do we'd be better off.

Also, I think, for myself, it is the right choice, and I like showing folks that it is possible to sustain yourself, be healthy, strong, and not all Aiki-Fruity and find balance and moderation in this way.

Okay, well maybe I am a little aiki-fruity.

Kevin Leavitt
09-16-2009, 12:51 PM
Keith Larman wrote:

I think one of the biggest problems we face is our separation from our food. We eat processed crap made by industrial methods and that includes most of the meat we eat. I use an almost local butcher's place that has organic and grass fed meats when I have the time to get there.

Agreed. I think this is in line with the philosophy that is being espoused in budo as well.

Mike Sigman
09-16-2009, 01:33 PM
During a lot of my exposure to Chinese martial arts I kept running into people who talked about "spiritual", the "Way", and meeting a lot of people who thought that being vegetarian was a legitimate offshoot to some befuddled idea about oriental studies, martial-arts, and so on. When China opened around 1980 and I subsequently finally got to meet a number of fairly high-level Chinese martial-artists, qigong masters, and so on, I was surprised that most of them were not vegetarians or sqeamish about a lot of ritual behavior. The general comment was along the lines of "Yin-Yang, the Tao, etc., are about doing everything with *balance*, not being exclusively any one thing".


Mike Sigman

Janet Rosen
09-16-2009, 02:09 PM
One of many reasons I wanted to move to this small town was to be able to grow food and be closer to good food. There have been some proposals floated for using an old industrial site for a slaughterhouse/processing facility specifically for locally raised, organic critters, using the methods suggested by..I forget her name, a woman who designs slaughterhouses that don't scare the heck out of the cattle. While I'm not much of a meat eater, I think its a wonderful idea in order to make sure the chain from producer to consumer is shorter and less prone to being contaminated.

Kevin Leavitt
09-16-2009, 02:10 PM
I agree Mike that seems to be the theme to everything. Balance or the Middle Way.

Keith Larman
09-16-2009, 02:30 PM