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JO
09-15-2009, 10:08 AM
Just a few months ago I went to a seminar taught by Clyde Takeguchi in Montreal. At the time he was a member of the USAF technical committee. Now he is not listed on the committee, no longer on the shihan list and his dojo is off the dojo listing. He's been erased from the USAF website. Anybody know what happened?

George S. Ledyard
09-15-2009, 03:22 PM
Just a few months ago I went to a seminar taught by Clyde Takeguchi in Montreal. At the time he was a member of the USAF technical committee. Now he is not listed on the committee, no longer on the shihan list and his dojo is off the dojo listing. He's been erased from the USAF website. Anybody know what happened?

It is my understanding that he has affiliated directly with the Aikikai in Tokyo.

Scott Stahurski
09-15-2009, 03:38 PM
Looking at his website and comparing it with the internet archive it appears that all links and ref to the USAF have been removed.

You could always email and ask as well......

rob_liberti
09-15-2009, 03:56 PM
That is interesting. I would love insight as to what his reasons were. What does it do for you? You can avoid some of the testing fees, I suppose. Anything else?

There are enough people of yondan+ rank with multiple dojos and students of nidan or higher, that I suspect we could have hundreds of new aikido orgnizations directly under hombu spring up if they all decided to do so.

Rob

allowedcloud
09-15-2009, 07:22 PM
Takeguchi sensei already had what you might call his own mini-organization within the USAF, with around 12 or so dojos directly affiliated with him. Perhaps he figured he reached the point where he didn't need the USAF anymore.

Chris Li
09-15-2009, 09:02 PM
That is interesting. I would love insight as to what his reasons were. What does it do for you? You can avoid some of the testing fees, I suppose. Anything else?

That's more or less what happened in Hawaii. Doesn't seem to make all that much of a difference one way or another, except that you're dealing with a smaller group of people.

It's also pretty much what happens in Japan.

Best,

Chris

JO
09-16-2009, 10:11 AM
I just hope his leaving wasn't on an especially bad note. I consider one of the great strengths of the USAF that it encourages several high ranking instructors to work together. From my standpoint as a student, this has meant easy exposure to several senior instructors, Clyde Takeguchi being one of them.

I just hope that friendly interaction with Takeguchi's group will be maintained. Since such interaction by the USAF with Chiba's and Shibata's organisations is ongoing, I'll assume there's hope.

Lan Powers
09-16-2009, 10:20 AM
<I just hope his leaving was on an especially bad note>

I'm assuming this came out with a word missing? :)
Especially from the nice respectful tone of the rest of your post.
Regards
Lan

JO
09-16-2009, 10:35 AM
OOPS!

a little n't missing in there. Let me start again:

I just hope his leaving wasn't on a bad note.

Chris Li
09-16-2009, 10:48 AM
I just hope his leaving was on an especially bad note. I consider one of the great strengths of the USAF that it encourages several high ranking instructors to work together. From my standpoint as a student, this has meant easy exposure to several senior instructors, Clyde Takeguchi being one of them.

I just hope that friendly interaction with Takeguchi's group will be maintained. Since such interaction by the USAF with Chiba's and Shibata's organisations is ongoing, I'll assume there's hope.

Unless some instructor has a grudge against you personally it really doesn't make much difference. I've never been in the USAF, but I've never had a problem training with senior USAF instructors. In fact, the first time I went to Japan in 1982 I went with Y. Yamada, even though I was actually a student of M. Saotome. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it :).

Best,

Chris

JO
09-16-2009, 09:32 PM
I'm not losing any sleep. I've gone to many seminars in non USAF dojos and/or with non USAF instructors. But I do find that the organisation does a decent job of creating training opportunities by encouraging exchange and cooperation among it's members. I've trained with several of the best, and haven't had to go far to do it.

aikidoc
09-16-2009, 10:45 PM
Rob, I believe they have to set up an organization and exist for 5 years before they can petition the Aikikai for recognition, although I'm sure exceptions can be made.

Fred Little
09-17-2009, 12:59 PM
Rob, I believe they have to set up an organization and exist for 5 years before they can petition the Aikikai for recognition, although I'm sure exceptions can be made.

John, I believe that there are a great many organizations which fit Rob's criteria and yours, to the extent that they may be regarded as having fulfilled the five year requirement in their prior existence as a recognized subgroup within a larger organization.

The Birankai -- formerly the Western Region of the USAF -- may have been the first and largest of the type, but it set the precedent in so inescapably public a fashion that any deviation from that precedent would be seen by many as pretty exceptional in its own right.

Best,

FL

odudog
09-17-2009, 04:12 PM
He is trying to be directly affiliated with Honbu which hasn't happened yet. Don't need to be an organization to be accepted by Aikikai. Don't worry about the reasons, just train well.

aikidoc
09-17-2009, 05:23 PM
I was just stating what their website says criteria wise. Chiba was a division of a major organization rather than just a dojo within an organization. The aikikai spells it out clearly. Again, I'm sure exceptions are made based on rank, etc.

rachford
09-17-2009, 08:53 PM
I've trained with Clyde for over twenty years. Though I'm pretty oblivious to the dojo scuttlebutt,but it is my impression that there was some drift away from Yamada in style. Less emphasis on momentum throws and more on the precise mechanics of the applications. Also some of us did not see much advantage to the association other than possible attendance at summer or winter camp. And Clyde is a seventh dan now and has a bit of a following on his own.

This is just my impression, not to be taken too seriously, and definitely not the inside take on the matter.

odudog
09-17-2009, 09:04 PM
Yes, you are right about their being exceptions. Chiba isn't just anybody. From what I have been told, you need to have a very close relationship with a Shihan who is very well connected to have a direct relationship with Honbu.

Suru
09-17-2009, 10:45 PM
There are enough people of yondan+ rank with multiple dojos and students of nidan or higher, that I suspect we could have hundreds of new aikido orgnizations directly under hombu spring up if they all decided to do so.
Rob

Rob, this might have crossed my mind quickly and long ago, but I'm really glad you brought this up. I believe that having some diversity among schools, with mild or perhaps even moderate differing perspectives on the same art seems healthy. However, if more and more yondan or higher, to use the rank I think you chose well, were to become "shihan" of "hundreds of new aikido organizations," my brain and its taste for considering extreme metaphors thought immediately of the U.S. Civil War.

The majority, or at least the majority of the "people who mattered" in South Carolina wanted to secede from the union. Knowing the paramount importance of a "United" States, especially since one secession might set a precedent for other states, President Lincoln chose to go to war to preserve the union. This was far from a modern war; it was a war of close combat with bayonets to the solar plexus, with piles of people just alive enough to feel every agony until they died of bleeding, thirst or starvation on the battlefield. After a war with more American deaths than the tolls of every other American-involved war combined - to the point at which even many Northerners with all four limbs might have found their victory Pyrrhic, the states became united again.

I find a metaphor here. I suppose I could have just quoted Pink Floyd's "Hey You" and say, "Together we stand, divided we fall." At any rate, I think it's just fine to have a small number of schools. However, I think from where we are now, even a few more would be degenerative.

Drew

Carrie Campbell
10-13-2009, 09:21 AM
Clyde Takeguchi Shihan is a wonderful person and respected instructor. Although he is no longer part of the USAF, I believe practice will continue as usual, and that dojos which often invite Takeguchi Shihan to teach at seminars will continue to do so, whether they are part of the USAF or not.

AsimHanif
10-13-2009, 11:10 AM
I agree Carrie. Thx!