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mazhar dardari
09-07-2009, 06:15 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC_xjif1VJg

Shadowfax
09-07-2009, 07:27 AM
ahhh yup its an aikido demonstration.....

salim
09-07-2009, 05:45 PM
Yeah I agree, rehearsed drills.

jason jordan
09-07-2009, 07:48 PM
But at least it's with sincerity.

aikidoc
09-07-2009, 08:34 PM
Interesting title.

salim
09-07-2009, 08:38 PM
Probably 99.9% of the youtube aikido rehearsed videos are with sincerity. LIVE training is always missing, almost never shown. So, I'm not impressed with rehearsed movements.

I remember seeing a one arm Aikidoka guy attempt to use some half Aiki moves, probably mixed with a little Juijitsu. I have to say, I have tremendous respect for him, much more than a lot of what I have seen on youtube. At least he has the courage to attempt some level of LIVE training, no matter how people may want to downgrade his Aiki ability or his abilities in general. He tried LIVE training with what he knows. I have a lot respect for him, for showing something that is really needed and often over looked within the Aikido community for too many reasons. See the links below. I have great respect for this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLqovX4G8Z0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwt9_G6VcME&feature=related

Kevin Leavitt
09-07-2009, 09:47 PM
Well if I were to try and do "live" training that is with resistance...punches? no punches? Okay no punches. It will look like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu with a Hakama. LOL

Cause that is what happens when you add resistance with no punches.

With Punches and kIcks it looks like MMA!

salim
09-07-2009, 10:01 PM
Well if I were to try and do "live" training that is with resistance...punches? no punches? Okay no punches. It will look like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu with a Hakama. LOL

Cause that is what happens when you add resistance with no punches.

With Punches and kIcks it looks like MMA!

Kevin,

Maybe that's OK, if you're Aikido looks like Jiu Jitsu with LIVE training. Humans are not robotic creatures who respond in rehearsed, robotic manners. Body movements have a natural reflex reaction. Rehearsed movements will never teach true body reflexes how to defend effectively.

I think you have proven the point over and over again on Aikiweb, that tested environments with LIVE training tell the truth of what works and what doesn't work.

jason jordan
09-07-2009, 11:38 PM
Kevin,

Maybe that's OK, if you're Aikido looks like Jiu Jitsu with LIVE training. Humans are not robotic creatures who respond in rehearsed, robotic manners. Body movements have a natural reflex reaction. Rehearsed movements will never teach true body reflexes how to defend effectively.

I think you have proven the point over and over again on Aikiweb, that tested environments with LIVE training tell the truth of what works and what doesn't work.

Or what works for you and doesn't for someone else.
I know? Let's strike up another Aikido doesn't work thread. Jeez!

How about the fact that the TITLE says DEMO, and how about the fact that as Artist we recognize the ART behind what we do as well.

When I look at an abstract painting it looks just like gibberish, but to an Artist who know's what to look for, he can see more than just a picture, he can see detail.

You know? Tenkan, Tai Tsabaki, did he use Koshi?...Technique.

Don't mean to be curt, but can't we at some point just enjoy a good demo every now and then? At least he wasn't throwing a guy without touching him.

Please don't be offended and if you are my apologies, just get tired of the same ole "Tom Foolery" if people's Aikido training doesn't work then change it or quit, damn is it that hard?

Add what you want, take out what you hate, just be good at it.

Okay good night.:D

ChrisHein
09-07-2009, 11:41 PM
Works and doesn't work is relative to the situation.

Kevin Leavitt
09-08-2009, 07:28 AM
Yea it is realitive. Did I miss the point of the video posting? I thought it was just a demo video? is there something wrong with the demo video that I missed?

A "live" environment is important if you are going to train for those live issues.

However, for a demo where you are demonstrating the principles of aikido, in which everything you do occurs in perfect unision and time/space...why would you not demostrate this in an Aikido way?

I personally like a little pressure and firm connectedness in my style of training and demonstration that connects a little more with reality, but there is also maybe a loss of principle in that method too.

There is a spectrum of "live". As long as the correct principles are adhered too and demonstrated, I think things are good.

Kevin Leavitt
09-08-2009, 07:34 AM
I think what Salim is saying is that alot of folks are hoping one day to see these principles demonstrated in the "aiki style" with alot of non-compliance. We never see it.

My comments are, that is true, you won't. It looks like good BJJ when done this way.

I may eat my words one day, of course, but so far I feel pretty comfortable that I won't.

The point is the aiki principles are universal and they are embedded in many ways.

There is a spetrum of compliance and demonstration of principle. The more non-compliance you add, the more struggle, the tighter the circles become and the more it will look like BJJ type of grappling.

The point is, we need to cut our fellow aikidoka some slack on demo videos.

I would though like to see a video demonstrating the spectrum of compliance showing the same technique done with distance and emphasizing principle then showing the same thing in a more non-compliant manner with all the other factors you have to account for in the struggle.

Although, I don't think this OP really wanted this conversation to go down this road....but...he did just post a link with no context so tht leaves alot of open mat time here! LOL!

salim
09-08-2009, 08:18 AM
Or what works for you and doesn't for someone else.
I know? Let's strike up another Aikido doesn't work thread. Jeez!

How about the fact that the TITLE says DEMO, and how about the fact that as Artist we recognize the ART behind what we do as well.

When I look at an abstract painting it looks just like gibberish, but to an Artist who know's what to look for, he can see more than just a picture, he can see detail.

You know? Tenkan, Tai Tsabaki, did he use Koshi?...Technique.

Don't mean to be curt, but can't we at some point just enjoy a good demo every now and then? At least he wasn't throwing a guy without touching him.

Please don't be offended and if you are my apologies, just get tired of the same ole "Tom Foolery" if people's Aikido training doesn't work then change it or quit, damn is it that hard?

Add what you want, take out what you hate, just be good at it.

Okay good night.:D

Jason,

No harm is done. I'm pretty thick skin to comments. I'm not at all overly sensitized. It's good to be able to voice your opinion a little directly, without the overly emotional sentimental mentality.

I respect your perspective. However the point I was making is of the over emphasized demonstrations we see over and over again. The demonstrations bring nothing new to the table. The demonstration looks like the other millions of youtube Aikido rehearsed demonstrations. I agree with Kevin, many like myself would like to see more advocacy for non-compliance, unrehearsed movements within the Aikido world.

The one arm Aikidoka guy tried something that is not common in Aikido. We enjoy demos all the time. Can't we enjoy LIVE training also?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLqovX4G8Z0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwt9_...eature=related

Keith Larman
09-08-2009, 09:57 AM
Someone asked me my opinion about our group posting videos on youtube of demo's we've done. I just laughed and offered up my opinion that I'd rather shove white hot needles into my eyeballs. There will always be people complaining that it doesn't show the "real" (patent pending) whatever of whatever it is that *must* be there this week.

It's just a demo.

And yet... Life goes on. People keep training. People keep going to seminars. And things continue to morph and change. And keep doing demos...

It's just a demo.

We've done demo's occasionally at local places. We use the demo's simply to allow students of all levels to get out and show the world what they're doing. They invite their friends and family to watch and they all have a good time. The advanced folk will tend to more advanced and "flashy" waza to show off to the crowd. So we have rank beginners up there sucking horribly by most standards. But they should suck -- they're beginners. And they're proud of what they're doing because they are *doing* unlike most, so more power to them. Hopefully they'll continue training and learn to suck less.

It's just a demo.

And I'm sure there are those in the audience saying "ha, that last technique would never work in a *real* fight in the octogonal cage of flaming death!!!!!"

So repeat... It's just a demo.

Now where are my flaming eyeball needles...

Marc Abrams
09-08-2009, 10:14 AM
Someone asked me my opinion about our group posting videos on youtube of demo's we've done. I just laughed and offered up my opinion that I'd rather shove white hot needles into my eyeballs. There will always be people complaining that it doesn't show the "real" (patent pending) whatever of whatever it is that *must* be there this week.

It's just a demo.

And yet... Life goes on. People keep training. People keep going to seminars. And things continue to morph and change. And keep doing demos...

It's just a demo.

We've done demo's occasionally at local places. We use the demo's simply to allow students of all levels to get out and show the world what they're doing. They invite their friends and family to watch and they all have a good time. The advanced folk will tend to more advanced and "flashy" waza to show off to the crowd. So we have rank beginners up there sucking horribly by most standards. But they should suck -- they're beginners. And they're proud of what they're doing because they are *doing* unlike most, so more power to them. Hopefully they'll continue training and learn to suck less.

It's just a demo.

And I'm sure there are those in the audience saying "ha, that last technique would never work in a *real* fight in the octogonal cage of flaming death!!!!!"

So repeat... It's just a demo.

Now where are my flaming eyeball needles...

Keith:

The most important question you did not answer! Did you sharpen your own flaming eyeball needles?

I simply tell my students that any videos with me in it, are not allowed by me for public distribution. So much easier that way! If people are really concerned about what we do, they can always attend a class.

I will add that the title of the video clip opens a person up even more than usual to scrutiny, nitpicking, ......

Marc Abrams

Michael Hackett
09-08-2009, 10:43 AM
Keith,

One of your best posts - you've sharpened your wit along with the needles and occasional sword!

Keith Larman
09-08-2009, 10:44 AM
Keith:

The most important question you did not answer! Did you sharpen your own flaming eyeball needles?

Of course I did. Haven't you seen the demo videos on youtube on how to sharpen eyeball needles? Those guys are terrible -- they know nothing of the proper kamae for proper needle togi. And they do all their sharpening movements from their fingers and not their core.

Now if they were sharpening them for battle, well, then they'd be doing it differently, neh?

Sorry, back to my cave for me...

jason jordan
09-08-2009, 10:52 AM
Jason,

No harm is done. I'm pretty thick skin to comments. I'm not at all overly sensitized. It's good to be able to voice your opinion a little directly, without the overly emotional sentimental mentality.

I respect your perspective. However the point I was making is of the over emphasized demonstrations we see over and over again. The demonstrations bring nothing new to the table. The demonstration looks like the other millions of youtube Aikido rehearsed demonstrations. I agree with Kevin, many like myself would like to see more advocacy for non-compliance, unrehearsed movements within the Aikido world.

The one arm Aikidoka guy tried something that is not common in Aikido. We enjoy demos all the time. Can't we enjoy LIVE training also?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLqovX4G8Z0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwt9_...eature=related

Cool! One thing I can never seem to understand is, why people just don't do it? I mean the way I train, is how I intend to use my skill to defend myself. I came from Karate and Goju to Aikido so I am always looking at more than just do this and do that.

I feel like people have totally missed the point of Aikido. Aikido as I percieve it is not Jutsu (techniques) it's principles. The same as Jeet Kune Do is not techniques, but principle or better still "Concept"

Bruce Lee used Jun Fan Kung Fu as the basis to teach these concepts, but the point is not the techniques but the principle.

Kaiten Nage is not the point...The principle behind it is.

Having said that.... I DO ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH SPARRING!!! I do feel that we need to incorporate this....SO I DO!!!!

Whatever we see missing in our training, just do it!

As far as demo's with Aliveness, I like the idea, but think it would be more Exhibition then Demo.

Have a great day peeps!

ChrisHein
09-08-2009, 11:06 AM
I don't think "live" aikido looks like Bjj with a hakama on. Well not anymore then free style wrestling looks like Bjj; and I think freestyle wrestling is much closer related to Bjj then Aikido. We're headed off track in a hurry though.

I think the demonstration is a good one. It is just another demonstration of forms. Which is a little limited, but it's good none the less. If you want to talk about works and doesn't work, you have to judge that relative to the situation. You can take a guy who is good at MMA, put him in an Aikido demonstration, and he will suck. After seeing that, you might say (based on the bias of Aikido demonstrations) that MMA doesn't "work".

If your interest is one on one fighting, then Bjj looks like a good system, it "works". If you are looking at multiple attacker situations, it looks like it doesn't "work". Work is always relative to the job it's working at.

Kevin Leavitt
09-08-2009, 10:31 PM
Chris, yes, relative to the situation, absolutely. I personally approach what I do the same. I don't worry about if I am doing BJJ or AIkido I just do what I know works based on the situation.

That said, I know that if I am doing Randori in an AIkido class that certain things will occur. Same with a BJJ match. Of course the situation dictates maybe how I will respond and what I will choose to do.

I don't however, dismiss anything in my arsenal I just respond (or try to) honestly to what is appropriate given the situation.

Yeah, if I were doing an aikido demo to illustrate the methods of aikido, it would probably look more "aiki" than if I were doing BJJ for sure.

Michael Douglas
09-09-2009, 03:54 PM
I enjoyed that demo much more than most,
...Don't mean to be curt, but can't we at some point just enjoy a good demo every now and then? At least he wasn't throwing a guy without touching him....
The absense of no-touch was great, the somersault men were very flippy which looks great every time!
The file size was TINY! Yeay.
:)

mazhar dardari
09-18-2009, 01:27 PM
Thank you for all the discussion

L. Camejo
09-19-2009, 09:55 AM
Nice demo on the original vid. A bit too "flippy" for me though. But a good demo nevertheless.

I have to say, I have tremendous respect for him, much more than a lot of what I have seen on youtube. At least he has the courage to attempt some level of LIVE training, no matter how people may want to downgrade his Aiki ability or his abilities in general. He tried LIVE training with what he knows. I have a lot respect for him, for showing something that is really needed and often over looked within the Aikido community for too many reasons. See the links below. I have great respect for this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLqovX4G8Z0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwt9_G6VcME&feature=related
Thanks for those vids Salim. 'nuff respect for the one armed man. I loved his spirit and endurance. He showed quite a bit of aiki principles including generally decent ma ai control and being able to maintain his balance and footing even when the guy tried to do some takedowns on him. And like most people he lost his balance as soon as he tried to muscle things and then it became a ground fight. I would like to see what he would do if he had 2 arms. Honestly. I really enjoyed those vids.

My comments are, that is true, you won't. It looks like good BJJ when done this way.You mean like this? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvJ3bI-VyDg

Just some thoughts.

LC

Hebrew Hammer
09-19-2009, 12:41 PM
I enjoy your Aikido and your humility Mazhar Dardari, keep em coming.

Keith you are exactly right my friend and some of the rest of you need to relax and try blending some more.

Shany
09-19-2009, 01:08 PM
Nice demo on the original vid. A bit too "flippy" for me though. But a good demo nevertheless.

Thanks for those vids Salim. 'nuff respect for the one armed man. I loved his spirit and endurance. He showed quite a bit of aiki principles including generally decent ma ai control and being able to maintain his balance and footing even when the guy tried to do some takedowns on him. And like most people he lost his balance as soon as he tried to muscle things and then it became a ground fight. I would like to see what he would do if he had 2 arms. Honestly. I really enjoyed those vids.

You mean like this? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvJ3bI-VyDg

Just some thoughts.

LC

K. Tohei is one of my most favorite masters of Aikido, at those times I think his Aikido was fairly "new" system (see the jump? :D he likes jumps!), since he was a Judo practitioner, we can see how Judo is still rooted in him at those times.

However, you will not likely see such aikido movie displayed widely (fight with unknown man/wrestler) in unrehearsed manner. for this I have for him a higher respect as an martial artist.

Walter Martindale
09-19-2009, 03:29 PM
The thing about demos and much (not all) aikido practice is that uke is usually only in attack mode - not "attack but don't get nailed doing it" mode.
Is it true that just before the first bell in a boxing match, the ref's instructions include "... and protect yourself at all times..." or something like that?

We attack with "shomen" for example (name a movement) and don't do follow-up strikes. Feints? So, the person doing the demo gets to look very good, because he or she knows that the attacker is going to do the "set" attack, and isn't (in a practice situation) going to be doing back-up attacks, and isn't going to be hiding the main attack with distractions.
But what the heck - I'm going to turn up to practice this afternoon - not only is there SOME potential that it may save my bacon, but it satisfies some of the other needs - a bit of vertigo, a bit of asceticism, a bit of elevated heart rate, a bit of flexibility, a bit of confusion - all of which also contribute to saving my bacon - or - at least to prolonging my time "vertical" instead of "ashes"...
Walter

mazhar dardari
09-20-2009, 04:58 AM
I enjoy your Aikido and your humility Mazhar Dardari, keep em coming.

Keith you are exactly right my friend and some of the rest of you need to relax and try blending some more.

Thanks a lot My friend.

Lyle Bogin
09-21-2009, 03:36 PM
Well I would rather watch the original vid than uke for it. It's business time! Dramatic titles are good...after all we are wearing costumes and acting like we're from another world.

Seriously, anyone who trash talks someone's vid should post their own for a well measured and civil reaming.

mah927
09-22-2009, 10:49 AM
Thank you Mr. Dardari.. nice demo...I enjoyed it very much. Also, what style is this? (Tomiki, Aikikai, or Yoshinkan)

mazhar dardari
09-22-2009, 08:30 PM
Thank you Mr. Dardari.. nice demo...I enjoyed it very much. Also, what style is this? (Tomiki, Aikikai, or Yoshinkan)

No Ayaz This Dardari Ryu Aikido.

Thank you for Interested.