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aikilouis
07-15-2009, 03:52 PM
Thanks to Leo Tamaki's blog, I discovered this show from Japanese TV about a visit to Okamoto Sensei (Daito Ryu Roppokai). The first part is a demonstration of skills on the visiting TV guy, the second part is an attempt to explain the strange phenomenons.

I'd be interested if someone translated the instructions, reactions and explanations. Thanks in advance, and sorry if those video have been already posted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8BcRNQIJIM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gyeo2drCmTE

Upyu
07-15-2009, 09:42 PM
Thanks to Leo Tamaki's blog, I <snip>

I'd be interested if someone translated the instructions, reactions and explanations. Thanks in advance, and sorry if those video have been already posted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8BcRNQIJIM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gyeo2drCmTE

Just watched the documentary, and I wouldn't waste your time by posting an in-depth translation.
A quick summary would go like this:
Get a bunch of "experts" (certified amateurs) to examine a specific skill-set, while haven't having the faintest idea about what mechanics, and kind of conditioning necessary to perform such skills, are actually involved, how forces are actually dealt with, and instead cloud the issue with kindergarten grade physics... and you have this show.

The "expert" at 4:09, is clearly "not" doing things right since he's using mechanical "tricks" through local scapular movement...etc.

A good litmus would be to compare Okamoto's movement to the "expert"... is he doing the same thing, even vaguely? If not, then his explanations aren't even worth listening too.

If you were hoping for a show that would try to do an honest attempt at explaining things... sorry to say that this isn't it :D

Sorry for the rant... couldn't help myself :crazy:

Course, you don't have to take my word for it...anyone else with skills feel free to interject :D

aikilouis
07-16-2009, 01:26 AM
Okay for the second part, but what does Okamoto sensei ask the others to do, and how does the participant describe what he feels on the receiving end ?

Thanks in advance.

Mark Freeman
07-16-2009, 06:29 AM
I dont understand what is being said in any of the vids, so I can only comment on what I see.

I agree with RJ in that the 'experts' are only commenting on 1 dimension of what is going on. Of course, control of the body mechanical aspect of the partner is important/essential, however, they do not seem to be explaining the mind/spirit side of the equation at all. A quick read of George Ledyard's Attention/Intention thread will point towards how important the mental aspect is to what is being demonstrated.

The demonstations were interesting to see, as they are very similar to what we do in our 'ki development' section of our practice. They are not hard to do or teach. The one where everyone is in line holding hands is particularly easy to do, the numbers are irrelevant, as long as you move the 1st one successfully, the rest go down like dominoes. We usually start off with a downward movement of uke's arm, but tonight I will try what I saw on the vid, I have no doubt that it will be just as easy to do.

Some of the other demo's require a much greater level of mind body co-ordination. On the double wrist grabs, you can see that Okomoto recieves ukes 'intent' before there is physical contact made, he projects/returns his own intent/ki back into uke from his own stable centre to destabalise, making him easy to throw.

The easiest way to learn how to do these things is find someone who can do them and get them to show you how.:)

regards,

Mark

Lorel Latorilla
07-16-2009, 08:40 PM
The "expert" engaged his shoulder too much to lift the guy, using too much tecnique and recognizable and telegraphed arm movement that starts from the shoulders. Technique that can be easily jammed, even by "strong" amateurs. When you see Okamoto move, you don't see the same kind of overt shoulder movement, in fact his shoulders hardly move at all. Movement is initiated somewhere else.

That said, it's interesting to see how dramatic the kuzushi Okamoto puts on the ukes. I reckon these dudes balance suck ass. Id like to see how dramatic it can get on someone with good, strong frame or someone with at least coarse jin skills.

Upyu
07-18-2009, 07:14 AM
Okay for the second part, but what does Okamoto sensei ask the others to do, and how does the participant describe what he feels on the receiving end ?

Thanks in advance.

What part are you referring to? (about Okamoto sensei asking other to do something), In general he just asks them to hold him down, or grab the partner next to him tightly etc, while the participant on the receiving end says the typical "if feels like it's an unstoppable force coming from far away yatta yatta yatta."

Of course, control of the body mechanical aspect of the partner is important/essential, however, they do not seem to be explaining the mind/spirit side of the equation at all.

But even before we get to the mind/spirit side of things, yi/intent/i and all that dance, they don't even do a decent, er I mean any kind of job, at demystifying the mechanical aspects. They're focusing too much on forces occurring at the point of contact...when they should, at the very least, (that's assuming they're serious about explaining these things), be starting with the legs, spine, middle/tanden/koshi etc and how it's the physically unified, and body which is conditioned to transmit forces which allows for these demos.

Forgetting the intent stuff (I wouldn't blame them for not introducing it in a TV show), let's see one that can actually cover the basic mechanics for once.