View Full Version : Chin na and Aikido

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05-29-2009, 11:19 PM
I found this video and could see a lot of similarity between the two arts.



05-30-2009, 02:16 AM
Good video, i have always thought that Chin Na would be a great additive to Aikido. Some would say most Japanese jujutsu came from Chin Na.

05-30-2009, 07:06 AM
Chin-na does indeed flow well with Aikido. I know several people engaged in dual training. I have been to seminars conducted by Dr. Yang, and enjoyed them. You gotta like pain, though... ;)

05-30-2009, 07:12 AM
David check out ymaa.com, for some great reference materials on Chin Na

05-30-2009, 08:53 AM
David check out ymaa.com, for some great reference materials on Chin Na

I like this site better.




05-30-2009, 11:19 AM
A lot of the chin na I've seen do bare a lot of resemblance to aikido. For that matter, so does a lot of the "self defense" application used by karateka. The difference that I've seen is that aikido is the only art that emphasizes a lead in its joint locks: every other art where I've worked locks, etc, they would stand right in front of uke and fumble with their hands.

So, at least from my perspective, aikido is, in a lot of ways, an evolution of those techniques.

05-30-2009, 11:56 AM
How about Ba Gua Zhaun?



05-30-2009, 09:37 PM
one of my friend's aikido sensei, sugawara wrote a book on the relationship between aikido and chinna.... i'll try to hunt it down.


it seems the applications are the same... the difference is in our ukemi

06-06-2009, 07:13 AM
Hi ,
I have been studying Chin Na as well for a while and I love it. I recommend it to everyone.

Mike Sigman
06-06-2009, 07:38 PM
Chin na (qinna) essentially means "joint lock"... like in nikkyo, sankyo, etc., all of which are standard qinna. "Single Palm Change" in Bagua is really just "Ikkyo".... the common technique.



06-06-2009, 10:01 PM
Bagua's Single Palm Change = Ikkyo!
Ha... that should help re-ignite the old Bagua/Aikido debate.... :D

I thought it's more than just "joint lock"? My understanding is that the broader repertoire of chin na su includes seizing and grasping techniques. I.e. it doesn't just stop at the joint lock... and is followed by some other really nasty stuff, like separating tendons, cavity press, and "sealing the qi".

For those who might be interested...
擒 (qin2) = catch, capture, seize, arrest
拿 (na2) = take, hold, grasp; bring; with

Mike Sigman
06-06-2009, 10:46 PM
Bagua's Single Palm Change = Ikkyo!
Ha... that should help re-ignite the old Bagua/Aikido debate.... :D

Whoops.... I don't want to get into that kind of discussion. I don't know many basic techniques in Chinese martial-arts that are unique to any *one* martial art. The basic "Ikkyo" is common in a great many CMA's and thus its standing as a core Aikido technique only indicates the close relationship between CMA's and JMA's. I realize that some people want to establish a relationship between Bagua and Aikido (and of course, such a relationship would be interesting), but there's nothing in Bagua that isn't in a number of CMA's... and that includes Irimi Nage, too.



Demetrio Cereijo
06-07-2009, 01:07 PM
Ikkyo was introduced to Japan by XVII century dutch merchants.

Here is the proof:



06-07-2009, 04:21 PM
Here is the proof:


Looks like truefork.org may have a redirect set up on deep linking of images.

If people can't see the above image, clicking on the following link may let you see the image.


-- Jun

Demetrio Cereijo
06-07-2009, 05:08 PM
Let's see if this works


Mike Sigman
06-07-2009, 05:30 PM
Ah.... I thought you were making a joke. ;) How is that picture a representation of "ikkyo"?



Demetrio Cereijo
06-07-2009, 05:40 PM
Half joking.

The other half of the joke is in "Budo, teachings of the founder of aikido" pg. 113: Ude osae (first column, second pic).

philippe willaume
06-07-2009, 06:00 PM
Non non
Ikkyo was introduce to japan by Sigmund Ringeck when in when on Holliday there in 1436.

Here is the proof http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmaX-2M0vQ4.

Trying to find lineage through technique is a little bit of a pointless exercise, there is probably a common source if we go far back enough but really regardless the part of the world you are in your elbow can only go so far back.


Michael Douglas
06-08-2009, 02:54 PM
Ueshiba appears to have missed Petter's 'Grabbing the bum of his pants' technique : my absolute favourite!

Here is the index page anyway.

Lyle Bogin
06-21-2009, 11:49 AM
I though bagua single palm change was shihonage, followed by ude oroshi, then ikkyo ;).