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ChuckP
05-27-2009, 07:03 PM
I have been taking Commando Krav Maga which is more self defence than a actual martial art for 2 months and I will be starting my Aikido beginners course in June. Will it be difficult to learn Aikido while taking CKM. I know a lot of people take more than one but just wanted to ask.

ChrisHein
05-27-2009, 07:37 PM
Depends on you. If it's your first martial art, and you have less then a couple of years in, it might be overload. I would just try it and see how it feels.

Lyle Laizure
05-27-2009, 09:10 PM
I know of several people that train in Aikido as well as other martial arts at the same time. Etiquette would dictate that you discuss this with your sensei and follow his direction.

Nick
05-27-2009, 09:14 PM
As is the answer so often...

"It depends."

Typically, you want at least a few years in one martial art before you start cross-training in the other, especially when it comes to two arts as different as Krav Maga and Aikido. With a foundation in one, they could complement each other quite nicely, but without that foundation, you'll find yourself getting confused as to what goes in which art as your muscle memory tries to internalize the two differing styles.

My recommendation would be to talk to your sensei(s), but perhaps pick one to focus upon for a little while until you feel comfortable cross training.

Nick

lbb
05-28-2009, 08:42 AM
I have been taking Commando Krav Maga which is more self defence than a actual martial art for 2 months and I will be starting my Aikido beginners course in June. Will it be difficult to learn Aikido while taking CKM. I know a lot of people take more than one but just wanted to ask.

Eh...I think the question that I highlighted kind of puts the focus in the wrong place, i.e., on the two arts vs. on you. You're a raw beginner in one style, and you want to start pursuing another. I see several likely difficulties here, but I'll stick to two.

The first is whether you're really equipped to learn two different styles at this point in your training. At two months, you've learned some KM techniques, but in a lot of ways you really haven't learned how to learn yet. You go to class, you do some stuff, you think you get it, or it doesn't make any sense to you so you discard it (or you get the instructor to show you the Street Lethal(tm) application of whatever technique you're learning). IMO, a lot of the real learning in the martial arts happens when you're not trying to "get it", when you discard the filters through which you're trying to comprehend what you're learning. That in itself is a skill, and it comes with time. Without that ability to set aside the filters and just absorb what's being taught, it's really hard to train in two styles and not make a mess of it.

On a more pragmatic level, there's the question of whether you have the time for it. Lots of people sign up for introductory martial arts courses, train twice a week (or whatever) for the eight weeks of the course...and then drop out, because, wow, two days (or more) every week forever? Most people can't or won't make the time for that. Multiply that by two and then ask yourself if you can commit the necessary time. If not, you really can't expect to progress or to sustain training in two styles, so best not go down that path.

ninjaqutie
05-28-2009, 10:30 AM
I took and still take more then one martial art at a time. I did however have over 4 years dedicated to one style before starting the others and they blended rather well together. I say try it and see. I am certain your teachers will tell you if you start doing strange things or picking up bad habits. Good luck.

SeiserL
05-28-2009, 10:46 AM
IMHO, just dont confuse the two.
When doing Aikido, do Aikido.
When doing KM, do KM.

Michael Douglas
05-28-2009, 03:39 PM
Chuck I reckon you should study a system which involves serious sparring and fitness, become a really good fighter over several years ... then take aikido, not before.

aikidoc
05-28-2009, 08:13 PM
I used to do aikido, tai chi, and kali all at the same time. I found myself using the other arts to enhance my aikido and using aikido principles to enhance the other arts where applicable. It got to be tough rnning from one class to another so I dropped the tai chi first since I wasn't enjoying the teaching style and eventually dropped the kali as well. That was harder to give up since I like weapons.

neb1979
05-31-2009, 09:24 AM
IMHO, just dont confuse the two.
When doing Aikido, do Aikido.
When doing KM, do KM.

Totally agree with Lynn on this.

For some strange reason 6 months before my grading for Shodan I wanted to have an MMA fight. So I stepped up my training in MMA whilst still training Aikido. Even though my focus was on MMA I could still train Aikido well. The reason for this was exactly what Lynn said never confuse the two when you are training Aikido train Aikido and when you are training KM tarin KM. I know that this sounds simple but some people have trouble keeping one away from the other.

What you will find eventually (after a fair while) is that they will most definitely start complementing each other.

Stay Safe

aikishrine
05-31-2009, 05:31 PM
hae done Aikido, Judo, and Kali all at the same time and i have found that i was able to do them all. I also think that a great art to add to Aikido would be Chin Na or Qin Na. i think they would flow very well together.

phitruong
05-31-2009, 05:49 PM
I have been taking Commando Krav Maga which is more self defence than a actual martial art for 2 months and I will be starting my Aikido beginners course in June. Will it be difficult to learn Aikido while taking CKM. I know a lot of people take more than one but just wanted to ask.

commando krav maga? isn't that redundant? or are you doing krav maga in commando, i.e. birthday suit? :D

wonder if we have commando aikido? as in nothing under the hakama. :)

certain things complement well with aikido, certain things impede. but then again, what is aikido but principles and ideas? some principles match, some don't. don't ask me the principles, because those are top secrets! ;)

lbb
05-31-2009, 06:50 PM
Commando = no underwear, dude, it doesn't mean naked.

Krav Maga, underwear optional.

Sojourner
05-05-2014, 07:43 AM
Imi Litchtenfeld used various Aikido techniques as a part of the Aikido syllabus when he created Krav, Krav Maga is the Israeli version of Striking Jujitsu called "Contact Combat" in Hebrew.

The problem however is that Krav is very very different to Aikido in terms of how you treat your opponent. In Krav Maga its about as much agression and physical force you can gather to defeat your opponents. Krav students focus on Atemi Points and Physical Training to a military standard. They often train in street clothes and in the Car Park of the gym, never on mats, always in shoes. When I trained in Krav we would be shown the material we were to learn usually striking and were made to practice it over and over until we reached muscle fatigue, often with Black Sabbath or similar blaring in the background to motivate people.

I loved Krav at first and still have a massive amount of time for those people that train and teach it. You would struggle to find a better system for self defence that gives you those skills in a relitivley short space of time.

In my own life I simply became sick of being focused around aggression when training and it got to the point when I had to walk away from it. It was then that I discovered AIkido and made the move across.

Its interesting that people online love to beat up on both Krav and Aikido. I take the view that there is much good to learn in many different systems and when you have trained for any length of time, you make that discovery and begin to see what works and what does not work for you, irrespective of what some knob has to say negatively about any given system on the internet!

ryback
05-05-2014, 08:49 AM
I have been taking Commando Krav Maga which is more self defence than a actual martial art for 2 months and I will be starting my Aikido beginners course in June. Will it be difficult to learn Aikido while taking CKM. I know a lot of people take more than one but just wanted to ask.

Aikido is difficult enough as it is.
In my opinion there is no such thing as cross training, different martial arts have different principles so you can't mix them.
You can't teach your body and spirit to react spontaneously fast and effectively in two different ways simultaneously.
It is like trying to run as fast as you can with one leg going in the opposite direction than the other.
Wanna try? You wouldn't even think about it...

Eva Antonia
05-05-2014, 09:06 AM
Hi all,

I started Karate after training four and a half years in aikido, and I'm doing both in parallel since then. It is not a big problem concerning time input, since the dojo is very near to my house, and I'm training twice per week in aikido + many seminars, twice or three times in karate, + some few seminars. I don't progress very quickly in either, training is not sufficiently intensive or I am not sufficiently gifted for that, but it's fun, and every time more so.

I don't have the impression that the two arts are interfering too much with each other; it cost me some efforts to understand why tsuki in aikido needs better not to be the same as in karate, and why the very low positions in karate are sometimes an obstacle in aikido. On the other side, I still struggle with spins in karate, which seem so much more difficult to me than tai sabaki in aikido - but all these are not really important problems.

What is really fun is mixing techniques, like answering a karate attack with an aikido response, but there are not so many opportunities for doing so.

Anyway, I think the previous posters are right - taking two martial arts as a complete newbie might not be such a good idea since you might confuse the approaches without noticing and thus hamper your understanding of and progress in the art(s).

Wishing you much luck in the pursuit of krav maga, aikido or both,

Eva

PeterR
05-05-2014, 09:24 AM
Aikido is difficult enough as it is.
In my opinion there is no such thing as cross training, different martial arts have different principles so you can't mix them.
You can't teach your body and spirit to react spontaneously fast and effectively in two different ways simultaneously.
It is like trying to run as fast as you can with one leg going in the opposite direction than the other.
Wanna try? You wouldn't even think about it...
I completely disagree. I personally found my Aikido went to a much higher level because I decided to cross-train in Judo. It put many things in context and allowed me to get past some road blocks I seem to have put in place.

Now I will say I trained exclusively in Aikido for quite some time so my experience was more of breath of fresh air rather than continuous cross-training but I still don't believe cross-training is damaging in itself unless it actually takes time in your Aikido training. Most of us who do cross-training do on an off-night for aikido.

Millsy
05-05-2014, 10:04 AM
Before I started Aikido I trained in Karate and Tea Kwon Do. I'm not very unusual in that aspect, many people I train with have previous martial lives. I think the background helps us.

When I first started to train aikido my sensei didn't allow training other arts or even with other aikido groups, so I progressed in a vacuum. These days with a different school and teacher there are no such restriction, and I now train several weapons arts, and play with others. I consider my primary art aikido despite training and ranking in other arts, and at the end of the day learning other arts to me is about understanding my aikido. I am happy I learned aikido at the start without being influenced by other arts and now I'm glad I can be involved in other arts to inform and explore my aikido.

Whether training outside is the best way or not who am I to say, but it feels right for me.

lbb
05-05-2014, 11:36 AM
Before I started Aikido I trained in Karate and Tea Kwon Do. I'm not very unusual in that aspect, many people I train with have previous martial lives. I think the background helps us.

It helps, but there are assumptions you need to discard. How effectively a student can do this depends on a number of factors, but I suspect it will be somewhere between difficult and impossible if you don't have a good background in one of the two styles to start with.

kewms
05-05-2014, 01:50 PM
A lot of people in my dojo train in other martial arts. Generally speaking, the senior students seem to be able to study more than one without undue confusion. Junior students (up to 1st kyu or so) who try seem to struggle a bit.

Aikido beginners with backgrounds in other martial arts often need to make a mental shift, and wrestle with habits from other arts for a while. But they have a better understanding of how to learn than beginners with no background. They also tend to have better martial instincts.

Katherine

PeterR
05-05-2014, 02:03 PM
But they have a better understanding of how to learn than beginners with no background. They also tend to have better martial instincts.
Katherine

They also usually have a better idea what they are after. Experience counts.

Rupert Atkinson
05-05-2014, 06:55 PM
IMHO, just dont confuse the two.
When doing Aikido, do Aikido.
When doing KM, do KM.

I agree. Don't be tempted to mix. Just go learn.

Rupert Atkinson
05-05-2014, 06:58 PM
I completely disagree. I personally found my Aikido went to a much higher level because I decided to cross-train in Judo. It put many things in context and allowed me to get past some road blocks I seem to have put in place.

Spot on. The only people who claim otherwise are those that don't like us to train in other disciplines, for whatever whacky reason. Ignore them. Go out and learn, that's what I say.

Sojourner
05-06-2014, 07:28 AM
One thought that I have had re cross training is that perhaps there is some merit training in Martial Arts that have some relationship with each other, often by their historical development.

In Korea for example many take Taekwondo and after proficiency is gained in Taekwondo begin training in Hapkido and Kumdo (Sword). Three separate martial arts but its obvious how they are connected.

In Japan the scope seems to be much wider, yet Karate seems to be quite popular along with Jujitsu, both Marital Arts having various disciplines under their banners. Iaido (Sword) and then the more modern styles of Aikido and Judo. My personal view is that its not hard to see how any of these Japanese Martial Arts compliment one another, Iaido training works well with Aikido Sword training, Daito Ryu Jujitsu is the direct liniage of Aikido and Karate kicks and punches are employed in many Aikido dojos as attack patterns for the Aikidoka to defend against at high skill levels.

Krav Maga is Israeli and shares content from Aikido, Kali, Greco-Roman Wrestling, Wing Tsun and Western Boxing amongst other skill sets.

My view is that there is some merit in staying within the family tree that your Martial Art comes from. Whilst I have no doubt that Taekwondo could go with Aikido or Jujitsu or that Karate could be paired with Hapkido, I think it could also be a harder journey to get there to pick up on the many cultural differences and ways things are done, whereas the jump from Karate to Jujitsu or Taekwondo to Hapkido is more of a progression than anything else and by progression I don't mean that one is better than the other, just a different skill set to learn to compliment what you already have.

lbb
05-06-2014, 07:34 AM
In Japan the scope seems to be much wider, yet Karate seems to be quite popular along with Jujitsu, both Marital Arts having various disciplines under their banners. Iaido (Sword) and then the more modern styles of Aikido and Judo. My personal view is that its not hard to see how any of these Japanese Martial Arts compliment one another, Iaido training works well with Aikido Sword training, Daito Ryu Jujitsu is the direct liniage of Aikido and Karate kicks and punches are employed in many Aikido dojos as attack patterns for the Aikidoka to defend against at high skill levels.

Karate is Okinawan in origin, not Japanese.

Keith Larman
05-06-2014, 09:19 AM
As a long time budo-hobo, so to speak, I'll toss in my 2 cents and wander away perfectly content with whatever folk want to think. Me, I did a lot of stuff over the years. Twas all cool. I did find when I was newer that I had problems with, well, let's call it conceptual interference among varied arts. The way I like to look at it is that most mature arts have a sort of underlying "operating system". And if you're trying to program yourself in both environments at the same time what works in A might be anathema to what works in B. And in the end trying to do both at the same time when you don't have a solid understanding of the underlying OS similarities and differences is really not a great idea. "Jack of all trades, master of none" comes to mind.

That said, once you've got the time in, once you've managed to get some degree of mastery of one, the other arts seems to be easier to grasp, at least IMHO. The contrasts are brightly visible while the similarities often seem obvious. So at that level I find that if anything doing more than one art can be helpful to both. But... It does require some degree of master prior to prevent the sort of cognitive collisions that inevitably occur.

So my answer is... It depends. In my experience I found it eventually enriched my understandings of all the arts including the deficiencies and limitations. But I gained a greater appreciation of each art's strengths as well.

No, I wouldn't recommend doing 2 arts at once as a beginner. And there's always the danger of nikyu shihan disorder among those who move from one to the next to the next. In other words, figuring out whether you have some degree of mastery in an art is itself a tricky thing indeed.

So... Yeah, yes and no. Sure, go for both and no, focus on one. There, how's that work?

Shades of grey and all that jazz.

Hilary
05-06-2014, 10:14 AM
Keith I think you are going to have to trademark nikyu shihan disorder it is a keeper.

lbb
05-06-2014, 10:30 AM
Keith I think you are going to have to trademark nikyu shihan disorder it is a keeper.

Right up there with Green Belt Syndrome. "No one knows more about karate than a green belt. Just ask one."

phitruong
05-06-2014, 10:49 AM
agreed with Keith. mastery one art first, before expand your horizon. however, aikido is a terrible art to master first. personally, i would go with striking arts first then aikido. of course i am a barbarian (people of barbar, as in go to bar twice), we just like to hit first, hit later, when all done, hit some more, then maybe once we are drunk and disorderly, then try to submit folks to our will. :D