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jason jordan
04-09-2009, 12:00 AM
Just a quick observation.

I have just spent an hour watching a show with my wife called.
"Most Shocking Videos". In 3 of the videos it took multiple police officers to subdue one attacker. Sometimes 5-7

I am amazed at how well the perpetraitors were able to keep moving, and managed to cause the officers to basically run into themselves causing their own neutralization. In almost all occurences pepper spray had to be brought in.

Seems like a lot has to be said about will-power and determination.
I am starting to rethink the whole randori demos not being realistic.
Maybe they are more realistic than we realize.:D

Lorien Lowe
04-09-2009, 12:57 AM
...at least when the attackers are not trying to seriously harm nage. If the only intent was to do debilitating damage, I suspect the results would be different.

Nafis Zahir
04-09-2009, 12:57 AM
You must keep in mind that most police officers are not trained to handle these types of situations. When I was in Okinawa, the Okinawans that wanted to join the police academy had to be a Nidan in some form of martial art to even get into the police academy. That is not the case here in the USA. That's why some ploice officers study Aikido and Ju-Jitsu.

jason jordan
04-09-2009, 10:15 AM
You must keep in mind that most police officers are not trained to handle these types of situations. When I was in Okinawa, the Okinawans that wanted to join the police academy had to be a Nidan in some form of martial art to even get into the police academy. That is not the case here in the USA. That's why some ploice officers study Aikido and Ju-Jitsu.

Yes I have heard that. I really wish we in the US would implement that. I've seen times when Police officers didn't know what to do, or how to handle themselves properly and the end was bad.

I admire police who take the iniative get more training on their own time.

jason jordan
04-09-2009, 10:20 AM
And I agree with you Lorien. It was just nice to see. It almost looked text book. I am not one for randori demos. I've seen way to many demos that just did it in for me.

I don't like seeing people fall for no reason.

Lyle Laizure
04-10-2009, 11:30 AM
A real threat seems to bring out a different type of determination in a person. There is also something to be said for police officers that are hamstringed with rules where their subjects are not.

justin
04-11-2009, 06:24 AM
what also can not be overlooked is the police officers have to show restraint in the times of lawsuits being issued everywhere.

Basia Halliop
04-14-2009, 02:21 PM
The two 'sides' do have different goals, though, don't they?

The one usually just wants to get away. Or maybe in some cases there is someone they are trying to hurt.

The other side is trying to simultaneously catch the suspect, hold them still long enough to get handcuffs on them, and keep bystanders, themselves, their fellow officers, and the suspect from getting hurt. So to me it actually seems sort of natural that that would be harder. Because they aren't really 'fighting' (that's not their job - they aren't soldiers trying to kill someone), but the other person may be. It's like when people comment on how hard it can be to physically restrain a child, even a small one - yes, because physically restraining someone is actually quite different from attacking them, isn't it? It wouldn't be nearly as hard if you weren't trying to do it safely, would it? To me it doesn't seem so.

In cases where the multiple officers aren't really committed to doing all those things -- the times I've seen or heard of that (e.g. in the news) -- it seems to me that it looks very different.

jason jordan
04-14-2009, 07:58 PM
The two 'sides' do have different goals, though, don't they?

The one usually just wants to get away. Or maybe in some cases there is someone they are trying to hurt.

The other side is trying to simultaneously catch the suspect, hold them still long enough to get handcuffs on them, and keep bystanders, themselves, their fellow officers, and the suspect from getting hurt. .

Good points, but to me this is one of the keys to good randori.
Don't become confused, and mentally dis-oriented instead keep the attackers confused and dis-oriented.

The problem is that each officer is trying to do the same things as the others. If they all had a particular role to play, rather than everyone trying for the same goal, they could then focus and work together.

I feel the reason the suspect can easily get away is because he alone is focused on one thing...Escape. I have often heard most Shihan say, don't deal with the attackers as a multiples but as one individual.

It seems that the key is to remain focused on one point. Maybe?:eek: