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Russell Davis
03-20-2009, 09:18 AM
I would be interested in peoples definition to these two questions;

1. What is a Martial Art

2. What criteria is required for a concept to become a Martial Art

Michael Douglas
03-20-2009, 01:55 PM
...I don't think a concept can be an art... what do you mean in question 2?

Russell Davis
03-20-2009, 03:12 PM
A concept is an idea which begins in someones head, just like Aikido began as someones idea before it is developed into what is "Officially" a Martial Art.

wideawakedreamer
03-21-2009, 03:22 AM
I'll try:

1. A martial art is a system of body movement so designed for use by an individual with the purpose of dealing with physical conflict with another person or persons.

2. All techniques and training methodologies must contain the concept of the art.

For example: the concept of aikido (and this is my limited understanding) is to join/blend one's force with an opponent's force (ai=joining, ki=force/energy/whatever, do=way). All techniques must contain this concept of blending.

sorokod
03-21-2009, 01:43 PM
Wikipedia seems to have a useful entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_arts

Are you not satisfied with it?

Don_Modesto
03-21-2009, 03:57 PM
At base, you have to make up your own mind. The terms are hopelessly confused even in Jpn, let alone in translation.

Buck
03-21-2009, 05:46 PM
Why is it, like in the Wikipedia entry, when martial arts definition is, it is automatically associated with being China, Japan, Korea, and then from there. Why not start off a definition with fencing, staff, or other western arts? It is a silly question I asked isn't it. :o

I think it is a broad definition, wide open to interpretation, of hand to hand fighting or combat system that is antiquated and archaic that has fallen out of favor to the modern firearms, etc. Included are those people who take from these old combative systems to build customized replica fighting or combat systems. Both the old and customized fighting systems are said to be useful as personal self-defense. That answers both questions, in my view I hope. :eek:

What is the importance to the answering of these questions?

lbb
03-21-2009, 06:55 PM
Nothing's ever "officially" a martial art. Did you think that there was some kind of international board of this-is-a-martial-art certification?

C. David Henderson
03-21-2009, 08:13 PM
[QUOTE=David Soroko;226955]Wikipedia seems to have a useful entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_arts
QUOTE]

Towit:

Martial arts are systems of codified practices and traditions of training for combat. While they may be studied for various reasons, martial arts share a single objective: to physically defeat other persons and to defend oneself or others from physical threat. In addition, some martial arts are linked to beliefs such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Daoism, Confucianism or Shinto while others follow a particular code of honour. Many arts are also practised competitively, most commonly as combat sports, but may also take the form of dance.

Question, is it the objective of Aikido to physically defeat other persons?

Russell Davis
03-21-2009, 09:24 PM
My thank to those who responded, Perhaps it was too tought a question for some, they had to depend on an external source for their opinion?
Mary Malmros, Don't you have any Certificates? Is there not a governing body to say who can and who can't teach!
therefore it has to be approved, and therefore is officially recognised

For a concept to become a Martial Art, it must benefit the individual, benefit the local community, and benefit society as a whole.

A Martial Art (or Military Skill) must benefit the individual, his squad, his Regiment.

For me I see little difference between these two answers, so I would be inclined to say that the first answer encompasses both
questions.

now let the fireworks begin!

lbb
03-22-2009, 10:11 AM
Mary Malmros, Don't you have any Certificates? Is there not a governing body to say who can and who can't teach!
therefore it has to be approved, and therefore is officially recognised

Uhh, no dude, all that those certificates say is that I've passed the standards for this rank in the JKA or that rank in the USAF or whatever. They say nothing, and are in no position to say anything, about whether what I'm doing is "officially" a "martial art".

In other words, there is no ultimate authority that can officially dictate what is and isn't a martial art. You have to make up your own mind.

Erick Mead
03-22-2009, 10:29 AM
Question, is it the objective of Aikido to physically defeat other persons?"Wars are won in the will." The subject of martial art is the spiritual defeat of other persons. This sometimes involves the objective of physical confrontation, sometimes not.

Buck
03-22-2009, 02:13 PM
A physical recreational activity that provides the excuse for beating the stuffing out of someone for spiritual betterment. :D

Buck
03-22-2009, 02:48 PM
"Wars are won in the will." The subject of martial art is the spiritual defeat of other persons. This sometimes involves the objective of physical confrontation, sometimes not.

Eric, I disagree because of this defination:

WAR, n. A by-product of the arts of peace. The most menacing political condition is a period of international amity. The student of history who has not been taught to expect the unexpected may justly boast himself inaccessible to the light. "In time of peace prepare for war" has a deeper meaning than is commonly discerned; it means, not merely that all things earthly have an end — that change is the one immutable and eternal law — but that the soil of peace is thickly sown with the seeds of war and singularly suited to their germination and growth. It was when Kubla Khan had decreed his "stately pleasure dome" — when, that is to say, there were peace and fat feasting in Xanadu — that he heard from afar Ancestral voices prophesying war.

C. David Henderson
03-22-2009, 04:13 PM
And, while suggestive, I'm not sure I understand what "spiritual defeat" means. But it seems anchored at one end by "defeat," which raises the issue -- is the proper subject of Aikido the defeat of another person?

Michael Douglas
03-23-2009, 05:19 AM
...
For a concept to become a Martial Art, it must benefit the individual, benefit the local community, and benefit society as a whole.
...
Firework : What you have stated here is utter tosh. :)

JimCooper
03-24-2009, 05:41 AM
Don't you have any Certificates? Is there not a governing body to say who can and who can't teach!
therefore it has to be approved, and therefore is officially recognised


I could set up a governing body of Jim-do this afternoon. How official does that make it? Certificates can be worthless outside of the organisation that issued them (and sometimes even within them), and governing bodies can all too often be more an expression of ego than anything else.

For example, I was awarded my karate shodan by an organisation affiliated with the JKA (the Shotokan equivalent of the Aikikai in Japan). Some years of internal JKA arguments later, my certificate was regarded as being from the "wrong JKA", according to the KUGB, and if I wanted to be regarded as a black belt I would have to regrade. Suprise, surprise, that was going to be quite expensive :-)

Such splits are endemic in all the martial arts. So you should view governing bodies with a jaundiced eye, and not place too great an emphasis on certificates, IMO. It's much more important to get a good teacher than a piece of paper or a different coloured belt.

Mark Freeman
03-24-2009, 08:39 AM
...I don't think a concept can be an art... what do you mean in question 2?

Where does that leave "Conceptual Art"? :D

Mark Freeman
03-24-2009, 08:43 AM
I could set up a governing body of Jim-do this afternoon.

Jim-do, that has a catchy ring to it Jim, can I join? how long will it take me to get a BB?;)

IMO. It's much more important to get a good teacher than a piece of paper or a different coloured belt.

amen to that.

dps
03-24-2009, 10:19 AM
1. What is a Martial Art

An organized way of fighting.

2. What criteria is required for a concept to become a Martial Art

Is it a logical organized method of fighting.

David

JimCooper
04-01-2009, 07:13 AM
Jim-do, that has a catchy ring to it Jim, can I join?


Sure :-)

how long will it take me to get a BB?;)


Since the aim of Jim-do is to develop your spirit of generosity and giving, that entirely depends on the level of generosity shown by a student. Since the Supreme Grandmaster (ie me) is the ultimate arbiter of a student's progress in the art, all such generosity should be directed at him :-)

philippe willaume
04-03-2009, 08:22 AM
I would be interested in peoples definition to these two questions;

1. What is a Martial Art

a method where you have stategy, tactics and technique, where as you can defeat your oppoent whilst preserving your ability to fight.


2. What criteria is required for a concept to become a Martial Art
that you win more often than you lose.