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dalen7
02-18-2009, 04:55 PM
O.k.

I have been doing quite a bit of searching into the various styles of Aikido to see what they have in common with what I practice - as well as seeking to incorporate any techniques or ideologies from them that would help improve my training.

In this thread, I want to concentrate on Yoshinkan Aikido.
I have some comments & questions based on what info I have gathered thus far.
Feel free to jump in if you have anything to add. :)

- Apparently attacks are based on 'push' and 'pull' - if its not a strike of course.

What I have noticed is that Ai-Hanmi seems to be the 'pull' & Gyaku Hanmi seems to be the 'push'.

The above is interesting to me, as we have never really isolated it like that.

- What is more interesting to me, however, is that it appears when doing katate tori from Ai-Hanmi, there is no cross over grab.
Not really the best way to put it, as it doesnt really feel you are crossing over per say. - What I mean is that all grabs for the wrist are aiming for ukes mirroring hand...both in Gyaku and Ai-Hanmi.

The reason that this strikes me as interesting, is that it seems that you would, in Ai-Hanmi, go for the opposite hand to grab as its closer to you. (We practice it this way.)

Either way, I suppose that the method done in Yoshinkan is specifically due to the ideology of 'push' & 'pull', which has some merit to the logic in it.

I would be curious to hear from some people in Yoshinkan about their thoughts concerning the differences on the emphasis in grab in Ai-Hanmi. (i.e. going for mirror hand of uke, vs. going for the closer one...)

- The other thing that I noted was the fact that uke & tori both 'scoot', as it were toward each other in doing a technique.
In other words, they do not alternate legs, but kind of slide together.

Again, from a different perspective, the way I have practiced is a more natural movement, as it were, where the legs alternate.

In a real life situation, people wouldnt scoot toward each other.
Yet, I suppose it would not matter for tori what uke does...they can respond easily without having to switch feet back and forth. (Dont know, still thinking this through...help me out with your thoughts from your experience with this.)

- The other area is omote & ura.
It appears that omote is Ai-Hanmi only.
And Gyaku Hanmi is Ura only.

Again, Im sure it has something to do with what was just mentioned about the style of the footwork practiced within Yoshinkan Aikido and the philosophy behind that.

None-the-less, interested in thoughts and opinions about that as well. (i.e., what about doing ura with Ai Hanmi, and Omote with Gyaku? Im used to practicing both omote & ura with Ai & Gyaku Hanmi, though I will admit some techniques seem suited for either Omote or Ura...)

Anyway, thats just a few observations/questions to get the ball rolling. Im extremely tired right now, so hopefully this made some sense. :D

Just to reiterate, this is not a, "I do it this way so it must be right" - I see value in variety...just want to better understand the hows and whys, and try to incorporate as much as I can as I go along...or risk being too stubborn and locked in my ways when something new comes along. :)

Peace

dAlen

Ron Tisdale
02-20-2009, 01:51 PM
Wow, from a casual look, you have caught some interesting details.

It's kind of hard to describe my thoughts in writing...when in person it would take about five minutes. Rather than go blow by blow, I'll try to give a synopsis (sp) of my own thoughts, stressing, of course, that they are only my own thoughts.

Yoshinkan methodology tends to be fairly uniform in it's approach, I believe in part because of an early focus on teaching larger amounts of people with some consistancy in the result. So you have a somewhat regimented approach to how shite and uke relate on the mat (often a crowded one). In that sense, shuffling in together (for instance) might actually make sense, while in a street fight, nobody moves like that. On top of that, you have the idea that if you distill movement and distance down to the simplest factors, you can focus on minute details and gain a great deal of understanding. But introduce too many variables, and suddenly it is just a mess (kind of like a street fight!).

Another instance you noted...katate mochi whatever kata (no, not the shoulder) you like. ;) In that aihamni arrangement, shite offers the back hand and lowers the front hand to make uke's selection of the back hand to grab obvious, in order to study specific principles. Sure, you could study those same principles in some other way...but the way it's codified in Yoshinkan is...like I just said. Many people find that one strange...they probably have a very good point.

And...there is kosa dori grab in aihamni. We call it ayate mochi, and it has it's own group of waza associated with it.

Oh, and there are actually waza that exist in the syllabus that do push from ai hamni and pull from gyaku hamni. And there are also waza done from a hold, as opposed to push or pull.

Best,
Ron

dalen7
02-20-2009, 04:16 PM
It's kind of hard to describe my thoughts in writing...when in person it would take about five minutes. Rather than go blow by blow, I'll try to give a synopsis (sp) of my own thoughts, stressing, of course, that they are only my own thoughts.

Best,
Ron

Hey Ron,

Thanks for taking a stab at my questions, I realize the post was quite lengthy! :)
Your right, it is hard to put these ideas/thoughts into writing.

(But you did a good job explaining.)

Anyway, It was nice to get some insight from someone involved in Yoshinkan - Im very interested in the 'differences' between styles, to see how they may actually relate to my practice and how they can be incorporated...even if just in theory.

Thanks again,

Peace

dAlen

Phil Parsons
02-27-2009, 10:15 PM
The difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai is mainly in the methodology of teaching. If you watch an Aikikai shihan and a Yoshinkan shihan doing jiyuwaza, it isn't going to look very different. You may notice that Yoshinkan looks a bit sharper, while Aikikai looks more fluid, but in the end, it's all the same Aikido.

dalen7
03-01-2009, 08:49 AM
The difference between Yoshinkan and Aikikai is mainly in the methodology of teaching. If you watch an Aikikai shihan and a Yoshinkan shihan doing jiyuwaza, it isn't going to look very different. You may notice that Yoshinkan looks a bit sharper, while Aikikai looks more fluid, but in the end, it's all the same Aikido.

Thanks for your response Phil... :)

Peace

dAlen