Jackie Chan & The New Karate Kid

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[dalen7]

O.k.
Walk down memory lane - "the karate kid"... remember that movie from 1984?
(Who can forget... even if they didnt see it!) :D

Well it seems that Jackie Chan has been offered to play the part of Mr. Miyagi in the Karate Kid.

Filming to start next year. (Doh...we just started a new year...to bad not sooner.) :D

It will be interesting to see how this remake turns out!

Peace

dAlen

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7827965.stm

[dps]

Very interesting. A story about an American boy mentored by a Japanese martial artist starring an
African American boy and Chinese man filmed in China.

David

[lbb]

Well, David, African-American boys are American, you know.

(I'm going to venture a wild guess that, like the original, it won't really have a hell of a lot to do with karate)

[Ron Tisdale]

PC run amok?
:D
B,
R

[dalen7]

Well, David, African-American boys are American, you know.

(I'm going to venture a wild guess that, like the original, it won't really have a hell of a lot to do with karate)

Should be entertaining with Jackie though. :)

Peace

dAlen

[Matt Shane]

This might very well suck.

Waiting for the DVD.

[dps]

Well, David, African-American boys are American, you know.

(I'm going to venture a wild guess that, like the original, it won't really have a hell of a lot to do with karate)

Yes, thus the American in Africa-American. Just contrasting the original with the new. What's next, a Bollywood production of 'Gone With The Wind' set against the struggle of North and South Korea with Hispanic actors filmed in Turkey?

David

[Aikibu]

Well I for one being out here in LA LA Land and in the biz know Jackie well and I am looking forward to it. Jackie is simply one of the best human beings and actors I have ever met and one heck of a Martial Artist.

As Slum Dog Millionare will show and Grand Torino too good films star folks as diverse as the world we live in. :)

William Hazen

All I can say is Thank God! Steven Seagal is not doing the remake ha ha ha ha :D

[dalen7]

Yes, thus the American in Africa-American. Just contrasting the original with the new. What's next, a Bollywood production of 'Gone With The Wind' set against the struggle of North and South Korea with Hispanic actors filmed in Turkey?

David

I see your point - at least an aspect of it, and it is something that kind of bothers me to.

Its not about what race someone is in order to play a role - but making remakes, of say "wonder woman" with Beyonce.
Nothing wrong with an "African American" super hero woman...but why not make a new film and a new character?

Why hang on to the past and try to fit what 'was' into a modern day scenario for the sake of trying to make a point. The point that race doesnt matter is well understood by just making a new movie altogether instead of making a remake of the same old. (The point of a remake is to keep the memories and flow alive of what was. I wouldnt imagine a remake of roots having a Norwegian actor in the main role - though many Norwegians were treated as a servant who came over...ask me about it, Im related to some of those who I refer to.)

The whole collective pain body of ones race carries over and affects the whole nation for generations...even though most of them are so mixed now that they are distant from everything...but the story that keeps it - the struggle - alive.

Here is a point.
Someone mentioned, "he is American, thus the African-American".
Well, why not have "Indian Americans" (Im a quarter of more) and the "Norwegian Americans" which Im a quarter or more...or the this and that.

The point of American is the fact it is mixed.
So if he is "American" no need to have the "African in front of it."
Its a part of a collective pain body that needs to die if people are to move forward. (i.e., Obama isnt African American...he is more 'european' than anything. Not just blood, but social milieu...lets all go to Africa for crying out loud and see the difference, not only in skin color, but down to earth social attributes brought on by their milieu.)

This race card is an old one...and best be done away with.
In one extreme you have the racist, on the other you have the ones who keeps racism going by ignoring where they are in the present moment by hanging on to a collective pain identity. (Eckhart Tolle explains this better than me.)

Its subtle, but there - time to move past it.

As with movies...if your gonna do a remake, who are you doing it for? The target audience, more than likely, will be largely people who originally saw the film. Take Beyonce who said she wants to be wonder woman...as nice and politically right as that may seem - I have in my head a picture of the actress, from way back, who originally played that role - you would think they would get someone similar, or just make a new film altogether.

Anyway...point is there, and I ranted enough about it.
Im a video producer...perhaps I need to shake things up a bit with a few films that do indeed go past the issues stated here. :)

Peace

dAlen

[lbb]

Yes, thus the American in Africa-American. Just contrasting the original with the new. What's next, a Bollywood production of 'Gone With The Wind' set against the struggle of North and South Korea with Hispanic actors filmed in Turkey?

Obviously you're resorting to hyperbole here. Quite clearly, GWTW was set in a very specific cultural matrix, in which the race, gender, class and socioeconomic status of the characters, and the story's location and moment in history, are all highly relevant. Just as clearly, the race of the young lead in KK is not relevant. There's no "contrast" worth noting.

[Ron Tisdale]

The point of American is the fact it is mixed.
So if he is "American" no need to have the "African in front of it."

I think I understand what you are getting at, but I disagree. Each person gets to choose how they identify themselves. Whether or not the identity chosen matches reality, is something else again. In Obama's case, he is specifically African-American in ways that I (I also assume that label) am not.

Its a part of a collective pain body that needs to die if people are to move forward. (i.e., Obama isnt African American...he is more 'european' than anything. Not just blood, but social milieu...lets all go to Africa for crying out loud and see the difference, not only in skin color, but down to earth social attributes brought on by their milieu.)

A) My identification with "African American", "Black American", etc., is not based on "part of a collective pain body that needs to die", any more than the identification of people of Jewish descent who commemorate the holocost are. Both histories are rich in pain, humor, life, death, sorrow and joy. As are all the other histories out there. I have a perfect right (and some would say need) to celebrate those things. Even if it makes some uncomfortable.

B) I've actually lived in Africa (East Africa, specifically). Have you?

Best,
Ron (might as well teach your mother to suck eggs)

[dalen7]

B) I've actually lived in Africa (East Africa, specifically). Have you?

Best,
Ron (might as well teach your mother to suck eggs)

As Eckhart Tolle best put it - (though its a saying not of his own) - words are pointers...you have to look past them.

I knew when I wrote this, it would not be understood well how I intended.

I have not lived in Africa, but trust me - I know Africans, and I know African Americans. - Friends on both sides - and I can tell you...from my personal view - 2 different boats...but one can disagree and have their own opinion. :D

Truly I wish I could get more to the heart of the issue...but you brought up a point about rich history of joys and laughter.

Joy laughter is a human trait not just to one 'race' or color, etc.
Ones tramas, or past only helps to separate.

Again, how many people now are so mixed that they choose one groups pain body, and not another they are more closely related to? Pain wants more pain...no matter how logical it is. ;)

- Again, my explanation is by far the best - I will always point to Eckhart Tolles audio book A new Earth.

Jews and Holocaust?
What about the Gaza holocaust happening now?

Isnt it amazing that its two sides identification with:
1) The need to create labels
2) The need to identify with them thus creating separation

...this is what causes the conflicts and the ongoing violence?

I wish I could put this in words that are easier to understand.
Because we our by products of our milieu, until we learn to embrace that which is larger than that which influenced us in our small surroundings.

Until then, we filter everything through the perceptions of what we think is being said - and I think this topic is a vital one that would benefit us all and lead to true peace on earth.

Giving someone a piece of land, (Israel) - or giving 'black history month' (America) isnt solving anything.

True, its a stage it seems we all have to go through...a phase where we try to attach to an identity, etc.
For awhile I was there - looking at my roots.

Should I be bent out of shape that the U.S. government is in place when a large part of my heritage was wiped out by them? Well, had things not taken place that took place...I would not be born...those Norwegians would not have come over...etc.

Does this justify wrong in the past?
Better question is, does dwelling on one aspect of a past adequately define and pave a path to where we are at now?
How do we move forward when Obama is called an African American?

What was Clinton and Bush? English Americans? Scottish Americans? Danish Americans? (Lizards?) :D

What about my Indian American?
What about those from the country India?

What makes you? A color?
A race? Well you and my race is not what our ancestors were.
I promise you that you and I could truly not relate to the sorrows they faced. (Well, at least I could not related, nor would I want to, to what my ancestors did...on both sides.)

The age of technology, and we still attach ourselves to some label.

1) This attachment to a label does a very basic thing.
It separates me from you - makes 'another', and then conflict can come in.

Again, its your right and everyone elses to call themselves whatever they want - but the truth is that they will never be that which they 'think' they are...and are only that which they are in the present. (Stating the obvious, but that is what we miss often.)

This is sensitive I know...until a person can get past the words that are spoken and feel more to where they are pointing...its easy to take sides - build up a defense, etc. (not saying you did that...)

After all, we are conditioned from birth to not only see that which is separate and make an us vs. them...but to not go beyond that.

Is it wrong being different? Im not saying that.
Life is a Dancer, and we are the Dance. Variety, etc., is fun.

Is it wrong to say that one culture started something...no means, take pride in it - but realize on one side of the world, someone on the other side is doing the same thing.
(Pyramids in Eygypt and in S.A.)

When an idea comes up, its already in the mind of someone else on the other side of the world. (100 monkey syndrom...to bad it doesnt work that way for Aikido. J/k!) :D

While we can celebrate our uniqueness and differences, we are all hooked up to the source that gives everything life. The consciousness that flows in you and your forefathers flows in me as well.

And, depending on what view you take, if you are a Christian - we all came from Adam and Eve. I only say that as it makes this point simpler...there is no 'us' vs. 'them'. We all hit the same tree - even if you believe we came from squiggly fish in a lake...

This may sound nice and philosophical, and it may sound impractical due to how we are fed info in this modern age..."Obama is African American", etc. (people still cant grow up.) :)

But it is the only way you will have peace in Israel and stop the modern holocaust that are happening today. (Before one argues for one side or another, lets ask...who is 'right'?)

Who is right, depends on what side of the boat your own.
What about the Africans who sold their own people into slavery?
See, its not as grandiose as people would want it to seem...this idea of African American.

We, as a species, tend to ignore that which doesnt suite us, and keep that which makes us feel comfortable while isolating others.

Did I vote for Obama? Did I vote at all? ;)
I tend to hold to what the 'God' of the O.T. said, "Israel you need no king at all".

Until people can figure out that they are responsible and in control of their own lives, they will willingly give away their power to others...

"change you can believe in" starts when it begins in you.
Otherwise, its "change that is much the same".

Bush/Obama - the same. (In my eyes.)
It matters not, as I said before, what is the end goal?

How does war stop?
So far no one has noticed that the promises to stop it (back when democrats took over, etc.) has not done a thing.

It stops when people realize that they dont want to shoot someone else. That the person they are going to shoot has a kid, a mother, and a brother...etc. They bleed the same, hate the same, love the same.

Well...love...

Love is acceptance of the person where they are at.

So love allows the people to make their choice to go to war and kill and die. Whose mind have you or I changed recently. (Notice, what I say, or you say, will never change anyone...it may flip a polarity switch...but wont change anyone....big difference.) ;)

So, people are free to continue with their identifications, etc. - all Im doing is pointing to a door, people have to choose if they go through it or not...we are one and the same. ;)

Peace

dAlen

p.s.
Matters not the color of skin.
Here is an example from early childhood of separation.
My children are not much welcomed at their schools...because they are 'different'. (same skin color, but they are outside of the local milieu, and this disturbs people...same happens everywhere. I saw it as a kid, as I moved a lot - and that was in the U.S....but more so in the south.)

What is more, the adults feed this mentality to the kids.
The first question we had when coming here was were we rich or poor - this is not the question of a kid...(well it is)...but one which was influenced by the parents. (And you can trust me on this one...) Once nothing was said, a label was already put in place.

People generally do not feel comfortable living without labeling.
A good way to learn is to hear...then 'put it on the shelf'.
No need to label what it is - if its a part of a 1000 piece puzzle, you wont have a clue...the piece is all green. It may be a leaf...or green in the pond...or a skirt, etc. ;)

I appreciate your reply, and I hope this makes some kind of sense.
Not on an intellectual debate level - but on a heart one, where you feel where Im coming from...because you already know it to be true. ;)

(Truth needs no defense.)

[lbb]

Dalen, that was quite a post, but I think the point is a lot simpler. You used the examples of Wonder Woman and of Roots, and said it would be nonsensical to do a remake of Wonder Woman with an actress of African descent, or to do a remake of Roots with an actor of (exclusively, one presumes) Norwegian descent portraying Kunta Kinte. While I'm not all that up on my Wonder Woman, I don't recall that the character's identity was specifically tied to a particular race or origin, so there's no good reason to object to such a remake. In contrast, the race and origins of the character of Kunta Kinte is essential to the story being told. Do you truly not see the distinction?

[Ron Tisdale]

On your last paragraph, truth is in the eye of the beholder.

I have no beef with how YOU want to see things...but don't expect ME to buy into it.

This may sound nice and philosophical, and it may sound impractical due to how we are fed info in this modern age..."Obama is African American", etc. (people still cant grow up.)

It has nothing to do with "growing up". It is a reality in this life at this time, whether we romantically want to see it differently or not. That is my problem with your arguement...you try to suggest you are altruistic, but then you throw in a phrase like that. Obviously perjoritive. Well shucks, I think you need to grow up too...get it? :D

But it is the only way you will have peace in Israel and stop the modern holocaust that are happening today. (Before one argues for one side or another, lets ask...who is 'right'?)
I'm not going to try to solve the issues in the Middle East today. I will leave that for you.

Who is right, depends on what side of the boat your own.
What about the Africans who sold their own people into slavery?

It is a fact...inescapable. What about it? Nothing I said negates it (it cannot be negated). So?
See, its not as grandiose as people would want it to seem...this idea of African American.
What in the world does "grandiose" have to do with it? You said that, I did not.

I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words in my mouth.

For the record, I am not one of those that goes along with making up claims for AAs or anyone else to boost egos. I left one calling already because too much of that junk was floating to the top.

Best,
Ron

[Ron Tisdale]

Hi Mary,

I think he sees the distinction, but chooses to ignore it due to romantic inclinations.

Oh well...plenty of romantic inclinations in aikido, right? :D

B,
R

[dalen7]

1) I have no beef with how YOU want to see things...but don't expect ME to buy into it.

2) Obviously perjoritive. Well shucks, I think you need to grow up too...get it? :D

3) I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words in my mouth.

Best,
Ron

1) I have no beef with you either... ;)
1b) if you read you will realize I dont expect you to buy anything

2) Words... "The finger pointing to the moon is not the moon."
Very limited way to express, and very easily misundestood. ;)

3) I never put anything in your mouth. :D

I do sense that this is touchy for you...so with this I will drop the subject. I have said all that can be said.
For further reference, again, try Eckhart Tolles Audio book, "A New Earth". Nothing to believe in...just pure practicality.

Peace

dAlen

p.s.
Let me ask you...
What is African American?

1) Should it not be African/North American for consistency?

2) Or Gambia (as an example) American if you dont want to use the continent name?

3) Or is it the 1st generation who comes over?

4) Or dual citizenship? But then take out the African as your not an African citizen, etc.

So, its not a romantic idea I have. ;)
Its realistic. Again, Obama isnt African American, any more than Im Norwegian American.
Or if he is African American...he is also European American - after all, he is half white...what do you do...chop yourself in half? (See how silly it is.)

Amazing how people want to cling to an identity so tightly...no? ;)

[dalen7]

Dalen, that was quite a post, but I think the point is a lot simpler. You used the examples of Wonder Woman and of Roots, and said it would be nonsensical to do a remake of Wonder Woman with an actress of African descent, or to do a remake of Roots with an actor of (exclusively, one presumes) Norwegian descent portraying Kunta Kinte. While I'm not all that up on my Wonder Woman, I don't recall that the character's identity was specifically tied to a particular race or origin, so there's no good reason to object to such a remake. In contrast, the race and origins of the character of Kunta Kinte is essential to the story being told. Do you truly not see the distinction?

Remakes are for the audience who was into the character, story, etc.
Typically the character takes on the persona that was attached to it.

Kind of why batman flopped once Val Kilmer came in.
Even the first batman was criticized for his persona not living up the comic books. ;)
(Boy is making a film complicated) :)
Not sure if you get the subtleties of why films fail, etc. - but character identification is one.

You may say its a totally different remake, but read on to the comment by Beyonce...

If wonder woman was black, then you would expect the character to stay that way...no? Again, its no big deal - but lets not for one second think its not about race, for some,...which is the point.

After all, Beyonce pointed out that it would be great to have a black wonderwoman.
So why bring up color here...what does having a black or yellow person got to do with being great? Race is being brought in, and is being used to 'sale' as well.

Its feeding off a collective pain body...

As you said, what does it truly matter - it matters not...which is why I suggested just making a new character. Obviously it does matter to some - as I pointed out with the comment from Beyonce. ;)

American is full with this identifying with color...typically they cannot step out to see what is going on...and that they are stuck in a cycle.

Might not be clear, but with an open heart, the answer is there... ;)

Peace

dAlen

p.s.
The difference between the Africans and the half white half black (oh, "african American" - or is it, as I said, "European American" what do you choose?) ;)
The difference, as mentioned...is that the Africans I meet are not caught up on country, color, race, etc.
And I have probably known more and had more African friends...then even the "african Americans". (Visiting a country doesnt count.) ;)

As I told Ron though...no need to go on about this - it just creates more drama. So with that, I bow politely out of this conversation. ;)

[David Orange]

All I can say is Thank God! Steven Seagal is not doing the remake ha ha ha ha :D

I heard they started on a remake with Seagal as Miyagi, but Seagal killed the kid....so they had to start over....

[David Orange]

As with movies...if your gonna do a remake, who are you doing it for? The target audience, more than likely, will be largely people who originally saw the film. Take Beyonce who said she wants to be wonder woman...as nice and politically right as that may seem - I have in my head a picture of the actress, from way back, who originally played that role - you would think they would get someone similar, or just make a new film altogether.


Why be concerned about it? What difference does it make who plays "the kid"? It's "a kid". An American kid. They did one "Karate Kid" with a girl (Hillary Swank, no less). I don't see ethnicity as an issue at all in this. From Jackie's point, probably, all of us are just "not Chinese".

It will probably be a lot better than the original and decades from now, people who find the original will be shocked that there was a version before Jackie's.

Best to you.

David

[lbb]

American is full with this identifying with color...typically they cannot step out to see what is going on...and that they are stuck in a cycle.

Might not be clear, but with an open heart, the answer is there... ;)

Peace

dAlen

p.s.
The difference between the Africans and the half white half black (oh, "african American" - or is it, as I said, "European American" what do you choose?) ;)
The difference, as mentioned...is that the Africans I meet are not caught up on country, color, race, etc.
And I have probably known more and had more African friends...then even the "african Americans". (Visiting a country doesnt count.) ;)

Right. Well, let's just explore this whole "Americans think" and "African-Americans think" thing. If you are an American, and you've been one for some time, you know -- or you ought to know -- some things about this nation's history. This knowledge makes questions like yours seem, at best, disingenuous, and at worst downright offensive. Sorry, but I have to say that.

You make it sound like we can all simply refuse the burden of history. We can't; however, white Americans have the option to defer it. On a day to day basis, the large majority of white Americans simply do not have to deal with racism. You're not going to get profiled and followed if you walk into a store. You're not going to be regarded as particularly threatening or violence-prone when you walk by people on the street. Your skin color is not going to cause people to wonder about your competence. And, because we haven't had to deal with racism, we've gotten lazy, and we haven't dealt with it. So when you, and other white Americans, throw up their hands and exclaim about why can't we all just get along and why is everybody so gosh darn stupid focused on race, there's your answer. We still haven't dealt with it. So please, don't pretend that we should all just wish upon a star and come to our senses and be beyond all that. It doesn't work that way.

As I told Ron though...no need to go on about this - it just creates more drama. So with that, I bow politely out of this conversation. ;)

Maybe, to be blunt, you should have thought about who you were and what you were talking about before you bowed in. I'm having a very hard time not seeing it as very offensive that you presume to declaim on African-American's motives in choosing that name.

[Ron Tisdale]

1)
3) I never put anything in your mouth. :D
yes, you did, the minute you ASSUMED that I thought one way or the other.

p.s.
Let me ask you...
What is African American?

Why do you care? In one sentence, you say you don't want to continue, and then in your post script, you continue. I think I'll just write you off at this point.

Again, Obama isnt African American, any more than Im Norwegian American.

Is it really so hard? His father is from Africa and his mother is from America. See? Easy enough. Get over yourself.

Amazing how people want to cling to an identity so tightly...no? ;)

It's not about clinging to anything. Your language, however, shows how much you like to belittle others. I have to deal with that daily...in real life. I'll chose now not to deal with you.

Oh, just for the record...I didn't visit Africa, I lived there.

Best,
Ron

[Aikibu]

I heard they started on a remake with Seagal as Miyagi, but Seagal killed the kid....so they had to start over....

Yeeeah Steven HATES to be upstaged. LOL :D

William Hazen

[James Davis]

Will Smith and son were both great in Persuit of Happyness, and Jackie Chan risks his life and busts his hump more than any other action star out there. I think this movie might just rock.:straightf

[mathewjgano]

When I heard they were doing a remake of Karate Kid...I was displeased.:grr::straightf But it looks like it's going to be a completely different movie: "The film, reported to be set in Beijing, looks to take the concept of the original and little else," (http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2009/01/jackie-chan-to-play-mr-miyagi-in-new-karate-kid.html). It'll be interesting to see how Jackie portrays Mr. Miyagi, and I liked Jaden Smith in The Pursuit of Happiness.:)

[David Orange]

"The film, reported to be set in Beijing, looks to take the concept of the original and little else,"... It'll be interesting to see how Jackie portrays Mr. Miyagi...[/I].:)

I'm just thinkin' here....if it's set in Beijing...I'm just thinkin' he may not actually play Mr. Miyagi....

[dalen7]

I wonder if it is going to be a comedy like Jackies other movies - that will be a bit different from the original if so...or if he can play a more serious role. ;)

Peace

dAlen

[dalen7]

Why be concerned about it? What difference does it make who plays "the kid"? It's "a kid". An American kid. They did one "Karate Kid" with a girl (Hillary Swank, no less). I don't see ethnicity as an issue at all in this. From Jackie's point, probably, all of us are just "not Chinese".

It will probably be a lot better than the original and decades from now, people who find the original will be shocked that there was a version before Jackie's.

Best to you.

David

I agree...as I mentioned not a big deal.
The points I brought up were, well, pointers - (i.e., the motivation for choices, etc. and going past labels which separate, etc.) some people got lost in the words and their interpretations of it. :D

Im looking forward to seeing Jackie in this though. :D

Peace

dAlen

[dalen7]

Although, referring to the quote in the post I made above, Hillary Swank is a good example of what Im talking about.

I havent seen the 4th movie (karate kid)...and while it may be good - and even a good story...its not good in terms of following in a series, and here is why.

Its based on what we were already introduced to... characters and plots that we already know and are expecting to be built upon - so this movie actually raises a bunch of questions for continuity, etc. and feels odd with everything else.

But thats not Hillarys Fault. :D
Karate kid III was also a departure from the character build up and plot line from the previous movie.

I mean what happened to all the struggle they went through in their relationships in Okinawa? Both the main characters had love interest - and Mr. Miyagis was an intense one...boom gone.

So its not the question of color, sex, etc.
Its a case of people needing to write new scripts. :D
Or in the case of sequels...get some consistency in the story line. :D

Peace

dAlen

[jennifer paige smith]

1) . :D

For further reference, again, try Eckhart Tolles Audio book, "A New Earth". Nothing to believe in...just pure practicality.

Amazing how people want to cling to an identity so tightly...no? ;)

Ah, the collective pain body. sigh.

[mathewjgano]

I'm just thinkin' here....if it's set in Beijing...I'm just thinkin' he may not actually play Mr. Miyagi....

One way or another you're probably right. I'm not sure if the article means to say that his character name is Mr. Miyagi or simply that he's playing his role of mentor/teacher. It is still called Karate Kid from what i can tell, so i assume the kid will be learning Karate in China, from Jackie Chan as we've pretty much seen him to date. I'll enjoy it because he's in it, and worst case scenario: I'll love it for being cheesey. I have a healthy affinity for cheesy Kung Fu to begin with (Kung Fu Hustle rocked on so many levels for me):D .
Still, you never know! He might do a mean Miyagi impersonation!

[Ron Tisdale]

I'm not sure why, but somehow I find this song applies to some of the earlier conversations.... :D

http://new.music.yahoo.com/videos/--31128850

B,
R

[jennifer paige smith]

I'm not sure why, but somehow I find this song applies to some of the earlier conversations.... :D

http://new.music.yahoo.com/videos/--31128850

B,
R

Ah, the collective pain hair.:D