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nikonl
02-20-2002, 11:00 PM
I was wondering, about the current poll. Why are there people voting 'No'? Are they not concerned about their partners or do they have absolute trust in their partners?

Hope those who voted 'No' could reply... :)

ian
02-21-2002, 07:14 AM
I voted no, and was suprised about the numbers of yeses!

I'm not worried about hurting someone during training because I take sensible action not to hurt them.

1. If they are new I make sure I do not do anything which they cannot safely fall or roll or even sit down out of.

2. I don't force on a technique if someone resists (I would rather change the technique).

3. the way I do my technique is in order not to hurt them (i.e. shiho-nage is taken down the length of their spine, rather than over an arm-bar, kote-gaeshi is taken in a direction just beyond their elbow rather than out to the side).

4. I try to make sure I'm not throwing an uke in the direction of someone else.

Injuries have happened, but they have been rare and it is hard to think they could have been avoided. Everything entails 'risk', its whether the risk is balanced by the benefit you get out of it.

If I worried about hurting people I would feel that would make things worse as my movements would be more erratic.

Ian

guest1234
02-21-2002, 07:31 AM
I voted 'no' and explained it in the thread designed to discuss it...just go there for the extended version. In short, voting 'yes' to me is saying you pay so little attention to your surroundings and your partner, or are so ego driven, that you take unnecessary risks with your partner. I was surprised by the number of yes votes. You should care about your partners, and because of that you don't fear hurting them because you avoid doing stupid, reckless things. Again, it's like saying you fear crashing when you drive your car. I certainly don't, but I guess a lot of others do. It may be that they read the question differently, or that they really are afraid...could be lots of reasons, I'm hoping they just read the word 'fear' in a different way--otherwise it would make me nervous to think that many folks on the mat felt that out of control.

How would you feel if, as you boarded a plane, your pilot announced 'Boy, today I'm really feeling afraid of crashing?'. Or your doctor handed you a prescription with a smile and the words 'You know, every time I treat you I fear I'm doing the wrong thing'.

dc20
02-21-2002, 09:33 AM
I voted "yes," but not to imply that I am out of control, etc. "Fear" or "worry" are actually not the words I would choose...more like, "concern." I practice aikido in part so I can remain in control and not hurt someone (partner included). So I practice, and take care not to hurt while practicing, so I practice some more, and take care not to hurt in practice...so circular, so aikido....

guest1234
02-21-2002, 09:47 AM
well, the word in the poll was 'afraid'...

it was not 'do you avoid hurting your partner' but 'have you ever been afraid...' two very different questions. That's why I was surprised so many people were afraid, as being afraid implies they are taking risks or cannot control those risks.

guest1234
02-21-2002, 10:02 AM
Now, one exception I think perhaps to my view that you can control the situation to remove the fear, is perhaps styles that involve competition, although I do not know if that would even be considered 'practice'. Since those of us in non-competition styles get told Aikido is too dangerous to have competition safely, and since I don't know what those competitions involve, that kind of practice may have too many uncontrollable risks that could lead to fear. But I would think it wouldn't be any more risky than randori.

PeterR
02-21-2002, 10:26 AM
Interesting take Colleen.

Personally in competition I have needed to get over fear of being hurt far more than fear of hurting someone. That said I did vote that I was afraid of hurting someone and that was why I was so concerned, as is the dojo dogma, with safety. That all round concern makes the fear less intense than in competition. If the fear of causing damage was not there - safety would go out the window. Of course that fear is not the same as quaking in your boots sort of fear.

Originally posted by ca
Now, one exception I think perhaps to my view that you can control the situation to remove the fear, is perhaps styles that involve competition, although I do not know if that would even be considered 'practice'. Since those of us in non-competition styles get told Aikido is too dangerous to have competition safely, and since I don't know what those competitions involve, that kind of practice may have too many uncontrollable risks that could lead to fear. But I would think it wouldn't be any more risky than randori.

Don_Modesto
02-21-2002, 06:48 PM
I voted yes, too. I think there's a semantic thing here. Ian said, "I voted no, and was suprised about the numbers of yeses! I'm not worried about hurting someone during training because I take sensible action not to hurt them." Me, too. But I interepreted such caution loosely as being afraid of hurting someone.

I train carefully, and I train with careful partners and people, myself included, still get hurt. I once asked a 200 pound nidan whom I felt comfortable training hard with, how he'd originally hurt an elbow he was favoring. He mentioned several priors and I was amazed to hear him mention an udekimi (? so called where I train now, sumi otoshi elsewhere) I'd applied in reversal on him.

At the time, I hadn't even realized I'd hurt him. I felt as if I'd been rabbit punched, and now slow down greatly when applying elbow throws on anyone. As I figure other techniques might yield a similar result, I tend to crank getting into position, and then lighten up on the actual throw. With all the injuries I have to dance around, I shudder at the thought of inflicting one on someone else.

ndiegel
02-21-2002, 09:01 PM
I voted "Yes" because I care about the other person. Perhaps using the word "worry" in the poll wouldn't suit me best. In a sense though, I do worry, because I take the time to make sure that they don't get hurt.

Noah

nikonl
02-22-2002, 10:45 AM
Thank you everyone for their replies... :)

Sid
02-22-2002, 11:39 AM
We were doing nikkyo once, and I decided I was going to do my best, so I kept one point, relaxed etc etc :P

Anyway, uke came in for a katate dori, and I just did nikkyo - apparently a heck of a lot hrder than was good for my uke, who was rather upset.

The thing was, it was completely unintentional - it just *happened*. So I suppose one can hurt someone else very easily, even with no intention to do so.

Sid

ndiegel
02-23-2002, 11:14 AM
Sid, I think he was hurt because you paid attention to your technique, instead of the uke. When we pay attention to the uke, only then can we fully appreciate the attack, and find the best possible solution for it.

Noah

erikmenzel
02-23-2002, 01:07 PM
I voted yes.

To often a beginner is so wild and uncontrolled that they would probably already hurt themselfs without my help. Training with them is to say at least a challenge to my skill, my patiences and to my ability to judge their possibilities. Protecting them is hard work then.

:confused: :confused: :freaky: