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Marko Ilic
12-21-2008, 10:48 AM
Hi, I need to ask you about some technique(i dont know its name, oh and its from suwari waza).It starts from ryotetori, nage responds with a tenchinage-ish throwing. The pin is to take one elbow and pressure it at your knee, and to kneel(?) on your opponents other shoulder. But when I do it I either don't throw uke right or don't do the movement right.
Can you tell me how to properly do this technique?

Is the reason i can't do it because it's for the orange belt(I am suppose to take an exam for the yellow belt soon!) or some other universal reason :)

Thanks,
Marko

Lyle Laizure
12-21-2008, 11:13 AM
I am not familiar with this technique. Sounds a bit like kokyu dosa but but I have not seen it using a knee to pin a shoulder.

If you are having difficulty you should ask your sensei first. Then it is just a matter of practice practice practice.

DevinHammer
12-21-2008, 07:39 PM
It also sounds to me like kokyu dosa (also known as kokyu ho). And, I have seen it done with the pin you described. If that is what you're describing, then it should be, and commonly IS taught to students of all levels from the very beginning (minus the knee/shoulder/armbar pin, perhaps). This is a very important, foundation exercise that can teach everyone a lot about their general technique. It can be done well or badly by any rank.
And Marko, there is no technique that is rendered ineffective by the color of your belt.

Chris Farnham
12-21-2008, 11:23 PM
knee on the shoulder sounds a little like Gokyo. What does Nage do with Uke's wrist?

Marko Ilic
12-22-2008, 01:49 AM
Let me define the pin a little bit better:when uke us in the ground, nage takes uke's elbow and puts it on his knee. Then nage puts his other arm on uke's other shoulder and leans on it, and pulls the elbow down.

Sorry if I didn't write it to be readable.

Thanks for all the answers,
Marko

P.S. Can you recognize the technique know (sorry for the inconvenience before)

Carsten Möllering
12-22-2008, 02:39 AM
The pin you describe in our Aikido is the finish of irimi nage in suwari waza or hanmi handachi waza.

Perhaps you are talking about irimi nage? There is no tenchi nage suwari waza in our aikido, but the two techniques are quite similar.

?

Carsten

Marko Ilic
12-22-2008, 03:32 AM
I didn't say that; i said that it has a tenchinage kind of throwing (but not the same; right arm goes up, the left arm goes down and you do an irimi-tenkan towards the right arm and throw him just like in tenchinage), and i didn't know that Iriminage has a pin, we just do throwing.

Sorry for the mess up :p

Ant thank you,
Marko

Harm-ony
12-22-2008, 06:15 AM
i guess it just a'variety' of Kokyu Dosa Technique, when usually Nage just simply put his 'suto' on uke's wrist and the other suto of the nage put just a little bit on an uke's chin, marco's technique choose different finishing (execution) to 'break' uke's elbow by using 'knee' That's what i guess...

:ai:

Janet Rosen
12-22-2008, 11:09 AM
AARGH! Trying to decipher entire techniques well written is hard enough. I don't know how one can name a technique based on a finishing pin, not knowing the lineage in which you are training. Please please please ask your teacher or senior student.

Lan Powers
12-22-2008, 01:55 PM
countless variations, finite amount of names....
everyone has a "bit" different technique overall.

I picture your description being irimi, as well.
Lan

Carsten Möllering
12-23-2008, 04:07 AM
Hi,

interesting issue.

Does someone here practice tenchi nage in suwari waza?

Does someone here practice kokyu ho / kokyu dosa using a pin of the elbow at the end?

@ Janet:
Don't you have specific pins for specific techniques? In the styles I know you can (in the majority of cases) name a technique by its finishing pin. (talking about kihon waza)

@ Marko Ilic:
In our Aikido (Aikikai) irimi nage in suwari waza and hanmi handachi waza has a finishing pin. The one you describe.

Carsten

Marko Ilic
12-23-2008, 05:04 AM
We never did the pin for Iriminage even when standing. I had a little problem with this kokyu dosa as you say it, although i had no problem with shomenuchi ikkyo omote in suwari waza. I will record it and I will upload the technique so you can see it.

Thanks,
Marko

Janet Rosen
12-23-2008, 10:25 AM
Hi,
@ Janet:
Don't you have specific pins for specific techniques? In the styles I know you can (in the majority of cases) name a technique by its finishing pin. (talking about kihon waza)
Carsten
Hi Carsten, yep, that's true. The problem with OP is that I cannot make any sense out of his description of the pin (how does one kneel on one of uke's shoulders and keep uke's opposite elbow at one's knee, unless one is straddling uke?) which is why I figure he ought to ask somebody at his dojo.

C. David Henderson
12-23-2008, 10:39 AM
I have a problem following the description too, and it would be good for this discussion if we get an opportunity to see it recorded.

My guess was irimi nage as well, but it seemed like a guess too.

DH

odudog
12-23-2008, 12:19 PM
Hi,

Does someone here practice kokyu ho / kokyu dosa using a pin of the elbow at the end?

Carsten

I practice this version. It is a basic thing for us in the Aikikai. This technique comes from Daito-ryu at least from my information. I think the technique is from the Nikajo and is called Hijikujiki.

Marko Ilic
12-23-2008, 12:28 PM
I already corrected the description, you can read it here: the pin is to put your uke's elbow on your right knee (assuming that you went to the arm that's up-right arm) and lean on the other shoulder.

C. David Henderson
12-23-2008, 01:01 PM
I already corrected the description, you can read it here: the pin is to put your uke's elbow on your right knee (assuming that you went to the arm that's up-right arm) and lean on the other shoulder.

Marko,

Didn't mean to sound critical. Sorry if it came across that way.

DH

Marko Ilic
12-24-2008, 12:59 AM
No worries, hope I didn't sound to critical either.

Hahaha.

Marko