Gokyo vs Ikkyo

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[mdsmith]

I was wondering if someone could explain what exactly the difference is between gokyu and ikkyo. Is it just the grip pn the wrist? I haven't learned gokyu yet, but have seen it on video and in books. Thanks

[sorokod]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGZkWQEHOTQ at about 0:55.

The grip is reversed to avoid a cut to the wrist.

[mdsmith]

That's what I thought. So, outside of a knife defense situation, there's no benefit of using gokyo(sp?) vs. ikkyo ?

[sorokod]

Benefit? What sort of benefit you have in mind?

[Demetrio Cereijo]

You don't need a knife wielding uke for chosing gokyo vs ikkyo as both make sense (all the sense these techniques make as knife defense: not much imho) in empty hands and in weapon defense. In tanken dori it depends on how uke is grabbing the knife, the moment of contact and the relative positioning to uke.

BTW, the pinning is usually different.

[Andrew S]

I believe that gokyo was originally treated as a variant of ikkyo.

The "benefit" of using ikkyo over gokyo is that ikkyo is the core of the pinning techniques - if you can do it well, you can easily change to any of the other pins.
With gokyo, there is a temptation to "grab" the wrist too early.

[mdsmith]

O.k, maybe benefit isn't the right work. How about advantage. In other words, what would cause you to chose one over the other?

[Peter Bowyer]

The grip is different but it's mostly the direction that you take uke - at least that's how we train on it.

In ikkyo you take uke's balance in one direction and put uke to the ground in a different one. In gokyo, you take uke's balance in one direction and you keep going that way (their hand will lead in the direction they are taken) with a big sidestep. This sidestep is what takes all of uke's balance.

Plus the different pin.

[ChrisHein]

Different schools seem to have very different ideas about what specifies Gokyo.

In some school it kinda looks more like rokyo, in some schools the folding of the wrist is important, in some schools like Iwama the important part is the reverse grip and ura takedown.

I personally think the folding of wrist is a of major importance to gokyo. When the wrist is folded in that manner it's almost impossible to keep your grip on something (weapon etc.). This makes gokyo a unique and effective technique for disarming.

[GeneC]

Disclaimer: The benefit is to not get cut with a knife when confronted with a bad guy with a knife who's trying to gut you like a hog hangin' from a tree by it's hind legs. Make sure any technique you use is like second nature to you( i.e., you use it without thinking about it) before even thinking of using it in a real knife fight. So that then, you'll (hopfully) automatically use the right technique, depending on the opportunity that presents itself, without even thinking about it. Otherwise, while you're thinking about which technique is better (especially if the decision is so close, it's a hard one), or worse, he's moved on you and got you so flustered you can't think of anything, he's filleting you like a big ol' trout. If he catches a artery or two( which is pretty easy,'cause there's one in each limb and two in the neck), you'll bleed to death in a couple of minutes and he'll be long gone.