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caelifera
12-07-2008, 01:57 PM
Well, why did he?

ChrisHein
12-07-2008, 02:18 PM
It's kinda what martial artists do...

sorokod
12-07-2008, 02:50 PM
The founder clearly stated that Aikido is there to harmonize Heaven, Earth and humanity.
Hope this helps your training.

Kevin Leavitt
12-07-2008, 04:22 PM
Did O sensei really create aikido, or did it create him?

It is not like he got up one morning and said "today, I create AIKIDO!"

Aikido represents a conceptual idea based on a lifetime of experiences and work of a human being.

Shany
12-07-2008, 05:15 PM
u can't create something that was already exists, however you can find methods to reach it.
clearly O sensei saw that no other martial art out there can help him connect with the universe, so he collected, reinvented, removed, added from what he already knew (and what he heard/saw probably).

*see notes about Osensei's remarks on Karate or Judo

GeneC
12-07-2008, 05:59 PM
IMO, Ki ( the life force/power of the Universe) is the center of Aikido- the root, the source.AIKI- the goal, Do- the way. Osensei was a martial artist, so he used martial arts to find/connect to Ki to be harmonious with the Universe. Were he was a musician, Aikido would be music to connect with Ki and we'd all be practicing Zen music, etc

Cynrod
12-07-2008, 06:21 PM
From The Journal of the Oomoto Foundation and the Aizenkai:

O'sensei named it Kohbu Budoh (Divine Warriors' Martial Art), but Onisaburo recommended that he change the name from Kohbu to Aiki. Aiki is the energy of love, or divine spirit. Eventually the name became Aikido, the way of love or divine spirit.

His descriptions of Aikido might seems too simple and grandiose to believe. Perhaps only after dedicated training and practice of Aikido can one fully understand and believe the truth.

Real martial art is a labor of love, it is
the work of giving life to all beings, and not
killing or struggling against someone else.
Love is God guarding everything. Without it,
nothing could exist. Aikido is the realization of
Love.

Therefore, to have a contest of technique,
to win or lose, is not real martial art. Real martial
art does not know defeat. "Never defeated"
means "never fighting."

Victory is to cleanse your mind of discord
within yourself. That is, fully accomplish that
which you are here to do. This is not mere
theory. Practice it. Then you will accept the
great power of unity with nature.

O'sensei founded Aikido and I don't think he created it. The word Aiki is older than O'sensei :) .

.

caelifera
12-07-2008, 08:41 PM
Thank you for your replies, keep 'em comin!:)

mickeygelum
12-07-2008, 09:36 PM
Aiki-Budoh or Aikido? Huh?

Maybe we have forgotten in our iconization of Ueshiba, that he in fact was competitive and prideful.

Did the little old man change or did the events of his day change him?

How many times does an addict, criminal or rebel "find God", and declare his actions the divine work.

Sorry, let's not forget the very influential nuclear pre-emptives,
hence pre-war and post-war "views and attitudes'.

Everyone takes from this art that which they want. So would it be fair to say that, if I chose to take the physical attitude and hone it to whatever level of effectiveness I am able to attain, I am a lesser example of a compassionate human being?

Or should I be professing that harmony and compassionate for those who choose to do me harm. Screw them, they should have heeded the warning, " In your own best interest, I would use the next five seconds to get the f**k as far away from me as you possibly can! "

Everyone chooses their own goal, and some folks should quit pushing the peace, love and yada-yada song-and-dance.

I will never wish ill on anyone, but some of you need the experience of a knock-down, drag-out to un-ass your thinking that peace and love will conquer all.

A well rounded aikidoka/martial artist, knows when to avoid confrontation, how to use interpersonal communication, and to engage the enemy. With each plateau of engagement, you can be victorious...the question is at which plateau your enemy will decide to let you be victorious.

Sorry for the rant, just my opinion...and I already know it stinks.

Train well,

Mickey

Carsten Möllering
12-08-2008, 04:24 AM
AIKI- the goal, Do you understand aiki as to connect, to concentrate one's own ki? This seems to be more the understanding of aiki in Daito ryu, I think? And to me it seems this understanding can be often found in the koryu.

O Sensei switched this understanding of aiki to connect one's own ki with that of the attacker.

Were he was a musician, Aikido would be music to connect with Ki and we'd all be practicing Zen music,
Ueshiba didn't do Zen.
But the Kotodama O Sensei did deals with sounds and tones.

Carsten

Carsten Möllering
12-08-2008, 04:51 AM
O'sensei named it Kohbu Budoh (Divine Warriors' Martial Art), but Onisaburo recommended that he change the name from Kohbu to Aiki.
It is only one thesis that Onisaburo wanted Ueshiba to name his art aiki budo.

aiki is an old "technical term" used in many ryu to describe their art.

The kanji ai in aikido ist not the the kanji ai meaning love.

When Ueshiba speakes of Aiki budo as a way of love we have to be aware that his meaning of love in his art 1931 is fundamentally different from what we understand as love.
His "way of love" included lethal blows at the end of the technique.

His Art was also called Ueshiba Ryu; Ueshiba Ryu Aiki Bujutsu; Daito Ryu Aikibujutsu; Aiki Ju Jutsu; Asahi Ryu Jujutsu or even Aiki no Michi .

We shouldn't overemphasize the name "aikido" for it was not given bei Ueshiba himself but by Hirai Minoru and Hisatomi Tatsuo when it had to be integrated into the Dai Nihon Butokukai.
Ueshiba just accepted it.

All that you can read in the mannifold researches of Stanley Pranin and others.

Carsten

phitruong
12-08-2008, 07:13 AM
thought i read somewhere that he said he didn't create it, aikido. he said it was there all along. he just discovered it and gave it a name.
*tangent mode on*
read one of bruce lee writing where he said if you give something a name, you also give it limitation.
*tangent mode off*

Joe McParland
12-08-2008, 07:24 AM
Everyone takes from this art that which they want. So would it be fair to say that, if I chose to take the physical attitude and hone it to whatever level of effectiveness I am able to attain, I am a lesser example of a compassionate human being?


The person who makes a point of pursuing or preaching martial perfection is no more or less compassionate than the person who makes a point of pursuing or preaching love, harmony, or spiritual perfection. They both have something very much in common.

You find this point within your own circumstances, within your own experience. If you feel compelled to share the point with others, you share it in your own way. And if your circumstances are such that you happen to be a martial artist, perhaps you shape your martial practice to use as a pointer to your understanding. And perhaps you name it "Fred"... or maybe "Aikido"---since the name is hardly important. And as you teach it and you see that people just don't get what you're trying to convey, perhaps you get old and pissy, lamenting that people aren't practicing your Aikido. Perhaps.

dps
12-08-2008, 07:48 AM
Well, why did he?

He did it for strength and martial ability, not religious or philosophical reasons.

From http://aikidoonline.com/Archives/2000/ma/feat_0500_dosh1.html

The Life of O-Sensei, Morihei Ueshiba

Part One

by Kisshomaru Ueshiba, Second Doshu

[Editor's Note: O-Sensei's son, Kisshomaru Ueshiba, recounted O-Sensei's life story, in his first book Aikido, which was one of the first books on Aikido translated into English. This is the first installment. Photos courtesy of the Aikikai Foundation from the book, The 100th Anniversary of the Birth of Ueshiba Morihei, Founder of Aikido Memorial Photo Collection.]

......Until he was 14 or 15 years old, the Founder looked quite weak with his short, thin body, but he was strong and his behavior was quite different from others. He had already had a general interest in budo since he was around ten.

When he was just twelve, his father, Yoroku, a member of the local council, was the main caretaker of the village. The so-called Toughs of the town, the hoods of his father's political opponents, would come to his house to negotiate. Sometimes they would rough up his father quite severely. The Founder said that seeing this happen so frequently seared a deep sentiment into his mind. He swore to become strong no matter what it would take, and throw out his father's attackers.

Young Days as a Soldier

In 1901 when he was 18, the Founder took the first steps in the direction of achieving his driving ambition. He had come to Tokyo because he wanted to be a great merchant. He spent busy days working on a wholesale street, and studied jujutsu of the Kito Ryu at night. Some- times he went to hear political speeches, as well. However, within a few months he developed heart beriberi and had to return home.

On this occasion, he made up his mind to build a strong body and after recovering began walking two and a half miles every day. This continued for ten days. Then twenty. Eventually he began running. He slowly gained physical strength and became capable of lifting two straw bales of rice, while previously he had not been able to lift even one. By the time he was
about twenty he began to look quite different.

Although he was still short his body was much stronger than ordinary people's. But the Founder was not satisfied only to be strong. He went to Sakai to study Yagyu-Ryu jujutsu. During this time he was involved in fishery and boundary problems of his village, and helped in solving them. Through this work he became well known locally. It was also about this time that he became involved in so many activities that more than once he was a headache for his father.

The Founder was full of youthful vigor. He had an unyielding spirit. If others did twice as much as ordinary people, he would do four times. If others carried 80 pounds, he would carry 160 pounds. His quick temper found good opportunities for expression in the rice-cake-making contests of his village.

In these contests a large scoop of a special type of cooked rice is placed in a huge stone mortar or bowl. Then a large sledge, something like a wooden mallet with elongated head, is used to pound the cooked rice. An assistant constantly turns the rice over on itself as it is being pounded. Gradually the rice is transformed into a rubber-like substance which is laid out in flat cakes to cool before eating. The weight of the sledge with its awkwardly-shaped elongated head, and the force and frequency of the kneading means that making the cake requires a great deal of strength.

In these contests the Founder eagerly matched himself against other strong young men-four, six. Then ten. All were defeated. Finally the Founder broke the pounder. He would go to other places to pound rice and again broke many pounders. People eventually had to politely refuse the Founder's offer to help make rice cakes for fear he might break more of them. Instead, they served tea and pastries, in the Japanese way reserved for honored guests, to keep him away from the rice-cake-making area.

taken from http://aikidoonline.com/Archives/2000/may/feat_0500_dosh1.html

David

dps
12-08-2008, 07:55 AM
Sorry, let's not forget the very influential nuclear pre-emptives,
hence pre-war and post-war "views and attitudes'.Mickey

Dropping two atomic bombs in your backyard would definitely be a 'come to Jesus' moment.

David

Joe McParland
12-08-2008, 09:19 AM
He did it for strength and martial ability, not religious or philosophical reasons.

From http://aikidoonline.com/Archives/2000/ma/feat_0500_dosh1.html


Also from Aikido Online (http://aikidoonline.com/Features/feat_0906_OSensei.Budo.html)

Budo Training in Aikido - Preface

by Morihei Ueshiba, O-Sensei

Editor's Note: The following is the preface of Budo Training in Aikido by Morihei Ueshiba, founder of Aikido...

Bu derives from God's own substance and mind, and is a major spiritual component of the truth, goodness and beauty embodied in the founding of our nation. Bujutsu arose along the way of the Imperial nation and lays its foundation on the sincerity of Kotodama expression coming from the Aiki between Man and the hundreds of gods (Kami). Moreover this sincere mind, which we call the Yamato Spirit, is attained through training the body. By trying to unite the body in this spirit, which is oneness resulting from the training of the sincere soul, Bujutsu takes as its purpose the building of the sincere man, possessing the spiritual oneness and unity which allows not the slightest opening between the body and the spirit.

As soon as Man is born, he encounters troublesome times. However, if you train in such as way that every encounter is seen as a major crisis, that is, as true Shugyo or as a vitally important trial, then you can go back and forth between the arenas of the living and the dead and it becomes possible to transcend the very idea of life and death. The main thing is to attain the "Way" which opens up [reality] calmly and clearly, just as in "every-day" situations, no matter what kind of terrible crisis or dangerous events you may face.

Why you chose a martial path and what you discover along the way are not necessarily the same thing.

GeneC
12-08-2008, 11:19 AM
Do you understand aiki as to connect, to concentrate one's own ki? ....Carsten

Not so much as to endeavor to harmonize with the life force energy of the Universe and let it flow thru me, which Lao tsu said is at the still point, between breathing in and breathing out.

GeneC
12-08-2008, 11:21 AM
Also from Aikido Journal http://www.aikidojournal.com/article.php?articleID=53

"Because of a lack of historical context presented in Morihei biographies published thus far, one is easily left with the impression that the founder made several major life decisions that proved key to the subsequent birth of aikido primarily on his own initiative. I refer specifically to such important events as his stay in Tokyo in 1901 with the intention of becoming a merchant, his relocation to Hokkaido as a settler in 1912, and his precipitous move with his entire family to the Omoto religious community in Ayabe in 1920. The reality of the matter is that the wealthy Inoue family of Tanabe to which Yoichiro belonged played a significant part in all of these major life choices of the young Ueshiba. The Ueshiba-Inoue family link is an undeniable fact of history and the names of Zenzo and his son, Yoichiro, as well as Zenzo¡Çs younger brother Koshiro emerge with conspicuous frequency in connection with Morihei Ueshiba from around the turn of the 20th century through 1935."

mickeygelum
12-08-2008, 11:31 AM
Dropping two atomic bombs in your backyard would definitely be a 'come to Jesus' moment.

David


For who, OSensei?

mickeygelum
12-08-2008, 11:34 AM
And as you teach it and you see that people just don't get what you're trying to convey, perhaps you get old and pissy, lamenting that people aren't practicing your Aikido. Perhaps.


And is not that exactly what he had become in his later years?

C. David Henderson
12-08-2008, 12:21 PM
And is not that exactly what he had become in his later years?

I'd guess he was much more than that, and was that at times too.

Maybe it's the topic, but the more people address the question in the OP, the more they appear to be sketching their own and sometimes competing views of O'sensei as an individual.

Did the young man who wanted to be and became physically very strong later change his views about what "strength" and "power" meant as well as how to achieve them; did his earlier ambitions seep through and underlie later, more philosophical/spiritual statements?

Did the man who actively supported the imperial system of Japan fundamentally change when he moved from Tokyo during the war (along with his art), or was he present still?

A friend once told me he wanted the following words on his tombstone -- "It's all true." A good way of looking at a life sometimes.

Regards

DH

dps
12-08-2008, 01:12 PM
For who, OSensei?

Yes.

David

mickeygelum
12-09-2008, 06:06 AM
OSensei was not a follower of Christianity, remember?

dps
12-09-2008, 08:39 AM
come to jesus ,

Originally an emotional experience that is life changing,

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=come%20to%20jesus&defid=774619

Not necessarily meaning in a religious context.

David

mickeygelum
12-09-2008, 09:47 AM
Not necessarily meaning in a religious context.


...but you used it in a religious context. If Ueshiba's spirituality became more profound and influential, due to the nuclear devastation, it is a religious context. Ambiguity is paramount in the professing of faith. God's work? While I never doubt ones' faith, I am critical of how it is used to manipulate and covet.

Peter Bowyer
12-09-2008, 11:30 AM
O'Sensei did not 'create' Aikido but rather he developed it. Aikido was already there but it took certain elements to be combined together to realize it and harness it.

Much like fire. Caveman didn't 'discover' fire...it was already there. What they did, however, was realize how to develop and harness it.

From what I've collected (which admitedly enough is over a relatively short period of time) is that the 'elements' I alluded to before was the dissatisfaction of clashing arts (of which O'Sensei was already a great master), the revelation of great spiritual power, and the comprehension that there are energies that we cannot readily see unless we commit to a lifestyle of compassion and unity...exactly what O'Sensei's Aikido is based on.

dps
12-10-2008, 07:36 AM
...but you used it in a religious context. If Ueshiba's spirituality became more profound and influential, due to the nuclear devastation, it is a religious context. Ambiguity is paramount in the professing of faith. God's work? While I never doubt ones' faith, I am critical of how it is used to manipulate and covet.

No I didn't. It signifies a conversion which may or may not be religious.

David

dps
12-10-2008, 07:58 AM
Ambiguity is paramount in the professing of faith.

No, ambiguity is the main impediment to communications between humans; be it religion, martial arts, etc. Those who don't know (this reference is in general not to a specific person) may purposefully use ambiguity to try to fool others in thier profession of faith. But for most of us ambiguity comes naturally.
David

Nathan Wallace
12-10-2008, 08:51 AM
It's kind of funny, if you ask a philosophical question you get a religious response, and usually an argument.
The fact is that none of us, not even those who were around him night and day his whole life, know why he founded Aikido.
He started his journey long before Aikido, in a way that many modern Aikidoka would sneer at, so it is obvious he changed his mind ATLEAST, once. He wasn't a god, he wasn't constant, he was a man. Subject to all the changes, growths, and decays of human life.
None of us are in his head no matter how hard we may study or research and no matter how much we think we know, all we have are theories. Most of which are probably based more on introspection. I'm willing to bet most of these responses have more to do with each individuals beliefs and personal reasons for training rather than O'sensei's.
Aikido isn't a religion, unless you make it out to be one, and O'sensei was a nice guy, a nice guy who could and did DEFEAT OPPONENTS IN COMBAT quite alot.
My theory is that Aikido is around because O'sensei wanted people to try. The Aiki the kokyu all that stuff is just part of the journey we should be taking. I think O'sensei wanted us all to be striving for perfection in whatever we do. Budo was just what he did. Why he wanted that I haven't given much thought to, but like I said, all I've got are theories.

mickeygelum
12-10-2008, 09:09 AM
He started his journey long before Aikido, in a way that many modern Aikidoka would sneer at, so it is obvious he changed his mind ATLEAST, once. He wasn't a god, he wasn't constant, he was a man. Subject to all the changes, growths, and decays of human life.


Thank you, very nicely stated

Aikido isn't a religion, unless you make it out to be one

Exactly.

Thank you for your input, Mr. Wallace.

Train well,

Mickey

GeneC
12-10-2008, 12:13 PM
....The fact is that none of us, not even those who were around him night and day his whole life, know why he founded Aikido.
He started his journey long before Aikido, in a way that many modern Aikidoka would sneer at, so it is obvious he changed his mind ATLEAST, once. He wasn't a god, he wasn't constant, he was a man. Subject to all the changes, growths, and decays of human life.
None of us are in his head no matter how hard we may study or research and no matter how much we think we know, all we have are theories. My theory is that Aikido is around because O'sensei wanted people to try. The Aiki the kokyu all that stuff is just part of the journey we should be taking. I think O'sensei wanted us all to be striving for perfection in whatever we do. Budo was just what he did. Why he wanted that I haven't given much thought to, but like I said, all I've got are theories.

ON the other hand, any "celebrity" who left a legacy and ALOT of writings and followers and film, one can accurately determine their intent, even if it changed several times, which it did in this case.

There is no secrets to his bio, it's well documented and he even said what his intent was in several different ways. What's also obvious is the direct religion that's incorporated into his life and manifested into Aikido ( much like religion is incorporated into America's foundation). According to his bio, he was naturally competitive and took pride to be the best at whatever he did. He was destined( as much as Bruce Lee) to seek and develope his own MA. Much like Bruce Lee, he studied many different MA, (which Budo was a way of life in Japan at the time and every self respecting Nipponji practiced it) and took the best parts of each and eliminated what wasn't. Further, obviously his connection to the Omoto religion influenced him to base his practice in a religious context , a common practice at that time, of peacful resolution and mercy (not so common at the time). Also, most MA are based in weapons techniques, because that's what was prevalent at the time. So much so that the general consensus is that if weapons are removed from a MA, it removes the martial aspect of the art.

My point is that alot of what was developed was simply a result of what was done at the time, as many know that Japanese culture was/is very strict. So he developed a hybrid MA within the constraints of current Japanese culture of the time. imo.

Amadeus
12-11-2008, 09:29 AM
Maybe he was bored

Nathan Wallace
12-11-2008, 01:05 PM
ON the other hand, any "celebrity" who left a legacy and ALOT of writings and followers and film, one can accurately determine their intent, even if it changed several times, which it did in this case.

There is no secrets to his bio, it's well documented and he even said what his intent was in several different ways. What's also obvious is the direct religion that's incorporated into his life and manifested into Aikido ( much like religion is incorporated into America's foundation). According to his bio, he was naturally competitive and took pride to be the best at whatever he did. He was destined( as much as Bruce Lee) to seek and develope his own MA. Much like Bruce Lee, he studied many different MA, (which Budo was a way of life in Japan at the time and every self respecting Nipponji practiced it) and took the best parts of each and eliminated what wasn't. Further, obviously his connection to the Omoto religion influenced him to base his practice in a religious context , a common practice at that time, of peacful resolution and mercy (not so common at the time). Also, most MA are based in weapons techniques, because that's what was prevalent at the time. So much so that the general consensus is that if weapons are removed from a MA, it removes the martial aspect of the art.

My point is that alot of what was developed was simply a result of what was done at the time, as many know that Japanese culture was/is very strict. So he developed a hybrid MA within the constraints of current Japanese culture of the time. imo.

Very eloquently put, thank you for the response.

I understand he left a great deal behind to be studied, and I agree that this should be studied, but like my exact statement before...none of us were in his head. He did state his intent alot, but it may be that he was trying to get a thought out and we misunderstood it. You never know. I certainly don't mean we don't try to understand; all I mean is we don't 'know' for sure and evidance of this is there are so many ideas about what he wanted Aikido to be or do, or what he wanted in general. And I emphasize this beause I hope that instead of people accepting an individuals packaged theory on 'why he created Aikido' or trying to 'package a theory' of their own they'll do the research and find everything he said and accept that or not, you know, leave it broad; and use his own words to pass it along.

Just like you can't lose a fight if you don't fight; you can't missinterpret something if you don't interpret it. J/K by the way.

Also I think we all share that destiny, to gather everything we can scrap what we cannot use and essentially found our own variation of Budo. Thats what I meant in my previous post about 'striving for perfection'.

But I'm human I'll probably change my mind. lol.