Favorite woods

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[thomson]

Just curious what type of wood (or composite) everyone out there prefers for their weapons and why. Myself, I don't have any experience with anything other that Red Oak, being so new to aikido. Exotic hardwoods are of special interest to me, so I thought I throw it out there for people to comment on.

Cheers! :D
Mike

[Keith R Lee]

Well, I have 2 bokken, both from White Oak. One is slim, and I use it for kata while the other is quite thick and large which I use for suburi. My jo is made from Purple Heart and it is fantastic. Admitedly, the only real reason to have anything made from Purple Heart is for aesthetics, but who cares. The Purple Heart gives the jo a unique look and feel. Good stuff.

[Niadh]

My current bokken is Maple. I made it so the maple was a very nice piece. I like the comprimise of weicht to strength, and the feel of it is just right.
My current Jo is Ipe. Very heavy and quite strong, but I made it with about 7/8" Diameter. It is finished a deep burnished brown and has a wonderful feel.
I have made some bokken from this also Nice and strong, but you feel the weight after a short time.
Niadh

[lt-rentaroo]

Hello,

I prefer Japanese White Oak (Shiro Kashi) for bokken. Japanese White Oak differs from the White Oak found in the United States in that the Japanese White Oak tree is an evergreen. This means the tree grows fairly uniformly year round making the growth rings less eratic and therefore the wood much stronger. White Oak trees (at least most of them) found in the United States are deciduous trees, meaning the leaves fall off in the fall. The tree does not grow much over the winter months and then in the summer the tree grows like crazy causing the growth rings to be further apart. This inevitably makes the wood less strong.

For Jo, I like hickory. It has great impact resistance and a nice "feel" to it.

[shadow]

my jo is made from tasmanian oak (australian wood) and is big, heavy, strong and (because I'm a tall bastard) long. It constantly gives my wrists grief, especially with those katate saburi, but I love using it for kumi-jo, especially watching peoples expressions when such a big thing comes at their head, really forces mai-ai down people's throats cause a whack from my big thing will render you senseless......haha

[Sherman Byas]

I rececently received as gifts :D a Jo and Bokken made of Shiro Kashi. I love them both very much. I'm cautious using them against Red Oak and such because I've seen my Sensei break less well made Bokken. You cannot go wrong wtih Shiro Kashi or Hickory weapons. This is for everyday use. Now if you must have custom-exotic then go ahead. By the way my weapons came from Tozando in Japan and both can be purchased rather inexpensively, less than $75 I believe. http://tozando.pair.com/eng/

Good Luck in your training!

[Brian Vickery]

Originally posted by thomson
Just curious what type of wood (or composite) everyone out there prefers for their weapons and why. Myself, I don't have any experience with anything other that Red Oak, being so new to aikido. Exotic hardwoods are of special interest to me, so I thought I throw it out there for people to comment on.

Cheers! :D
Mike

Hi Mike,

I like white oak for bokken/jo used for suburi only. Looks nice ? is easy to maintain. But weapons used during kumi-tachi/kumi-jo I go with Chinese Waxwood. Solid, heavy, does not fracture when it finally does break, but instead it splits and stays in one piece due to its fiberous interior (kinda like a stock of celery). I'd put it a notch above hickory in it's ability to take impact.

If you want to read more about Chinese Waxwood, go to: http://coldsteel.com
-go to the 'Specialty Item' section, then go to the section on 'Chinese White Waxwood Staffs', there you can read a review on it.

Regards,

[thomson]

Thanks all for the info so far. I'm learning a lot! I was also wondering about your experiences with composite weapons.
Kingfisher Woodworks ( http://www.kingfisherwoodworks.com/materials.shtml ) has a composite bokken they claim has shattered a live blade. Thanks all!


:D Mike

[akiy]

Originally posted by Brian Vickery
But weapons used during kumi-tachi/kumi-jo I go with Chinese waxwood. Solid, heavy, does not fracture when it finally does break, but instead it splits and stays in one piece due to its fiberous interior (kinda like a stock of cerlery).
I seem to remember that Chinese waxwood is kind of "knobby" (for a lack of a better word) -- am I remembering correctly? It could be tough with waxwood to let your hands slide along the length of the weapon like one might do for a "proper" honteuchi with a jo.

A friend of mine who has done jodo in Japan has said that his hickory jo has lasted him, I believe, over ten years of jodo.

-- Jun

[Brian Vickery]

Originally posted by akiy

I seem to remember that Chinese waxwood is kind of ?knobby? (for a lack of a better word) -- am I remembering correctly? It could be tough with waxwood to let your hands slide along the length of the weapon like one might do for a ?proper? honteuchi with a jo.
-- Jun

Yes, it can be 'knobby', but that can vary greatly! Some pieces of waxwood are very knobby, making much more suitable for use as a bokken/bokuto, others are very smooth, with very little taper, making perfect for jo use.

Their is a drawback, you CANNOT shape a waxwood bokken to look like a sword! You just cut it to length and use it in the shape that it is! But it's a acceptable trade off for the increase in strength and safety .

Regards,

[akiy]

Hi Brian,

Interesting information! I've only used Chinese waxwood in its "bokken" incarnation during a shinkendo seminar. They are pretty darned resilient wood! I may have to investigate a waxwood jo sometime in the future...

-- Jun

[ndiegel]

I've heard somewhere that Hickory wood is very good for weapon use...but then again, I have no personal experience with it.

Noah

[xuzen]

Dear fellow budo enthusiasts,

This looks like a good thread to post my question.

I have recently the privilege to learn some Muso Shinto Ryu Jo-do syllabus. It seems like it is love at first sight. It is nothing like the aiki-jo that I know.

I understand, reading from various sources, that the red or white oak makes the best jo. However, in my training we use treated furniture grade rattan as our jo. I did a brief price survey, a jo of mediocre quality from a martial art supplier here cost approximately USD 20 -25/pc whereas, rattan being indigenous and grow wild in my country; I can purchase two dozens of them with the same amount of money.

My question being; Is rattan s good jo material?

Description of Rattan = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rattan

Picture of rattan = http://www.reflectionsofasia.com/_borders/arnis%20rattan.JPG

Your opinion is greatly appreciated.

Boon.

[linvincible]

Kim Taylor (from SDK supplies) wrote a very interesting article where rattan is mentioned
http://ejmas.com/pt/ptart_taylorcol_0603.html

Personally I've been disappointed with oak, but that's only due to the way it's prepared nowadays
"normally" the wood would have to stay in water for a few weeks (months is even better...) for the resin to go away
then only the wood can be dried
what happens now is that the wood goes after the cut straight into ovens...
not the same thing...

If you can find wood prepared the "old way" then it's worth a try!

I like macassar ebony (south Asia) because it's heavy, rigid, and can be really nicely polished
it has a powerful feel the oak doesn't.

From what I've read here and there, I'd really like to try Lignum Vitae and hickory to compare with those I already know

[seank]

it's prepared nowadays
"normally" the wood would have to stay in water for a few weeks (months is even better...)

If you can find wood prepared the "old way" then it's worth a try!


Hi Charles,
This must depend very much on your supplier. We can source oak and ash locally that have been prepared in this way very readily.

The only part of the process that may be different is the timber is kept wept by a sprinkler-type system over the 3-6 months before it is kiln-dried.

Cheers,
Sean.

[Julian Straub]

I am currently in the process of building both a suburito and a bokuto out of bubinga, which is a type of African cherry wood. My wood source guy recommended it to me, and I am happy so far with it. It has a tight, fairly straight grain, which is what you want for wooden weapons. It works really well, and it which is good for those like me who predominantly use hand tools. The drawback is that bubinga is fairly heavy for some weaker wrists and forearms, when compared to other species.

Other than bubinga, I'd have to concur with the above opinions that Japanese white oak and hickory are good functional pieces.

[Ellis Amdur]

Bubinga is beautiful and very hard - but very brittle. I have not found it safe for impact.
Lignum Vitae is now endangered - very hard to ethically acquired. It has a beautiful smell, and olive look - very hard and very heavy.
Similar to Lignum Vitae is vera wood. Greenish color that darkens. Very very hard and flexible. I had a six foot bo that flexed four inches or more with a strong swing, which was very different from kashi that doesn't flex much at all. Thus dangerous with close strikes. Vera has a resin that some (myself among them) is somewhat unpleasant - I'm allergic to it.
Greenheart is a wonderful wood - except the dust is toxic - very much so - which requires special care in working it.
Ipe is quite good - has a heavier (duller) feel than kashi. You need to frequently oil it, as it dries out and then develops hairline cracks. Quite durable and strong.
Osage Orange can make quite wonderful weapons - strong and flexible
Wenga (an African choclate colored wood is hard, but it breaks in dangerous dagger-like splinters).
Macassar ebony is great (and greatly expensive) - to my knowledge, all other ebony species are quite hard but very brittle - no good for impact.

Best

[Lorien Lowe]

Ellis, have you ever trained with or owned any osage orange weapons? I've heard a lot about this wood, but never seen it.

A sempai has a beautiful maple bo he made for himself that I've seen flex better than a foot during practice (we were doing jo-type stuff - the bo was fine, but it made him nervous enough to put it back on the wall and pick out a jo instead).

-L

[Ellis Amdur]

I've trained with one osage orange. It was quite slender and broke during practice rather quickly. However, I've no way of knowing if this piece was weak - I've heard some really good reports about the wood, better than the performance of the single example I had.

[Lan Powers]

Cocobolo is very heavy, dense, and polishes sweet too.
I made a jo out of this stuff for my Sensei & it seems to hold up well . (so far)
Cocobolo is a type of rosewood as well, and has a rich color. Do you know of any drawbacks to this other than being so heavy?
BTW it turns on a woodlathe easier than hickory.
Thanks Lan

[JMing]

I have a waxwood staff imported from china, and it is a very good wood. However, with extensive use they become flexible, which they are suppose too. I don't know if people would like a flexible staff over a more rigid one. Don't get me wrong, waxwood is rigid to some degree, but not as rigid of those of oak or other hardwoods. Those I have to admit, it makes the impacts less harsh on the hands.

[Ellis Amdur]

Cocobolo is another one of those wonderfully hard and heavy tropical hardwoods that shatter with impact because they are not very flexible. Simlar to ebony, rosewood, and bubinga.

By reputation, a really great wood is Ironbark Eucalyptus. It is not very attractive, but it grows in an area with frequent brushfires. The bark has evolved to being fire-resistant, and the wood is often naturally fireharded.

Some of the other eucalyptus are quite hard, but only Australian grown. Eucalyptus is infested with a wood borer. The tree defends itself by growing slowly with a very tight grain. Eucalyptus was transplanted to California and elsewhere in hopes of establishing a fast growing hardwood for railroad ties, etc. Without the wood borer, the tree grows even more rapidly, with an open grain. Not nearly as hard nor shock resistent.

[Jose Roel]

I have a brazilian blackheart bokken. The apperance is very similar to the Swartzia spp.(Katalox,Izjerhart or Wamara,sorry really don't know much about wood). It's hard and heavy, dents my Sunuke bokken easily so I use the blackheart in solo practice these days.

[Mark Mueller]

Geez...buy american. The hickory stuff that Kingfisher puts out is hard to beat for day to day practice.......tough, doesn't shatter, nice to look at.

[Mark Mueller]

Geez...buy american. The hickory stuff that Kingfisher puts out is hard to beat for day to day practice.......tough, doesn't shatter, nice to look at.

Oops! That sounds a little xenophobic....I meant buy american hickory (shouldn't have had that last tequila :freaky:)

[Cynrod]

White oak > Hickory, then Ipe lately. Those are my favorite kind of woods :D .

[Sy Labthavikul]

I really want to like hickory, but personally I'm not a fan of how light hickory is, or how easily dented it becomes. Yes, the fact that it dents slightly means it isn't brittle and is quite strong overall, but I prefer the heavy, hard solidness of white oak personally.

But in the end, I just consider this to be a different variant of "gadget fetishism" and use whatever weapon that will let me train.

[Gerardo Torres]

My favorite is White Oak, which I think is a fairly affordable and durable wood for weapons.

I have several bokuto, jo, waki and a heavy naginata all made from white oak (both the Japanese and North American varieties). They all work pretty well for me, and were cheap compared to weapons made from more exotic woods.

[Erick Mead]

Lignum Vitae is now endangered - very hard to ethically acquired. It has a beautiful smell, and olive look - very hard and very heavy. There is nothing like it. Requires no finish, withstands the worst impacts you can imagine. It was almost wiped out in the nineteenth century both because of the medicinal value of its resin (cough syrup -- guaifenesin -- was originally made from it) and they used it for self-lubricating thrust bearings to keep steam ship drive shafts in line -- and twenty of you together can't equal the torque hammer impact of a ship's drive shaft going to flank speed.

I had a pair of bokken milled from a stick I acquired in 1994 in San Diego. Never looked back.

They are now using a more plentiful subspecies or related species from Argentina and Venezuela, which has many of the same physical qualities of the Carribbean native tree, a largish shrub, really (another reason larger timber is hard to come by). I cannot recommend it more highly.

[brian donohoe]

I am trying an ash bokken at the moment to see what it is like. Mostly because it has a couple of thousand years as the wood of choice for the sticks used in this game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmzivRetelE

I'm happy so far. Going to try a jo next

Brian

[lbb]

Oops! That sounds a little xenophobic....I meant buy american hickory (shouldn't have had that last tequila :freaky:)

There is a very great deal to be said for buying local rather than anything imported. American forests have been repeatedly devastated by invasive species that arrived on wood products from Asia or Europe. Do a little websearch to find out why the city of Worcester, MA no longer has any hardwood trees...then ask yourself if you want that happening in your community, or perhaps across your continent. Buy local grown.

[raul rodrigo]

All my weapons (ken, kodachi, jo, tanto) are white oak from Japan, but even they have endured small cracks and damage over the years. A veteran aikidoist tells me that I should expect that at some point to have to replace them. There are a few woods that are much harder but they are either way too brittle—or if they are strong enough to withstand all kinds of impacts, then the odds are you can't acquire them ethically. Particularly in my country where illegal logging is so rampant and the best hardwood trees (narra, tindalo, etc) are illegal to cut.

[Ellis Amdur]

I have posted a page on my website (http://arakiryu.org/wp/?page_id=544) regarding various woods suitable for weapons.
Ellis Amdur

[Shadowfax]

I have posted a page on my website (http://arakiryu.org/wp/?page_id=544) regarding various woods suitable for weapons.
Ellis Amdur

There is also a very good article in the Aikiweb Aikido Articles section. After reviewing it I chose Purple Heart wood for my jo. So far I'm very happy.

[gregstec]

I use a grade 7 hickory Jo and Bokken from Kingfisher for paired practice - light, but very strong. And I use a Dymondwood set from Bujin Design for solo work - very heavy, but too strong to use against wood for paired practice.

Greg

[Jose Roel]

I use a grade 7 hickory Jo and Bokken from Kingfisher for paired practice - light, but very strong. And I use a Dymondwood set from Bujin Design for solo work - very heavy, but too strong to use against wood for paired practice.

Greg

Hi Greg,

Care to share a pic of your bokken? I've recently checked the website,seems they're gonna offer resin impregnated bokkens soon.

J.R

[gregstec]

Hi Greg,

Care to share a pic of your bokken? I've recently checked the website,seems they're gonna offer resin impregnated bokkens soon.

J.R

Sure - which one, the hickory or dymondwood, or both?

[Jose Roel]

Sure - which one, the hickory or dymondwood, or both?

I'd like the hickory but won't mind if you'd post some of the dymondwood as well.

J.R

[gregstec]

I'd like the hickory but won't mind if you'd post some of the dymondwood as well.

J.R

Here you go - sorry it took awhile...

734

[RED]

:p :p :p :p

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~lflynn/plan9color.jpg

Sorry, couldn't resist!! :cool:

[Jose Roel]

Here you go - sorry it took awhile...

734

Thanks alot Greg, I greatly appreciate it! The dymondwood looks very heavy.

[gregstec]

Thanks alot Greg, I greatly appreciate it!

you're welcome - :)

[TreyPrice]

Funny Maggie!

I have made several weapons and I love working with expensive woods. However, my old fav is Hickory. I have a great jo and bokken made out of Hickory. The jo has the most beautiful grain patterns. It crushes a little. I wax it twice a year with Johnson's past wax to keep it sealed. I plan to replace it with Brazilian Iron wood in the future.