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Enrique Antonio Reyes
10-05-2008, 02:21 AM
A couple of months ago I came across a thread discussing the hip throw some guy from the movie "Incredible Hulk" was teaching Dr. Bruce Banner. They referred to it as an "Aikido" throw. I noticed that the guy they were talking about was Rickson Gracie of the BJJ first family (Gracie JJ) fame so I assume he was representing BJJ there.

My question is "How do you actually know if it is Aikido?

One-Aiki,

Iking

Flintstone
10-05-2008, 04:45 AM
I would say it's not about the technique, but about the way it's performed. Haven't seen the movie, so...

Mark Uttech
10-05-2008, 06:07 AM
Onegaishimasu. One can't do a certain technique and claim it is an aikido technique. Likewise, you can't claim that anything can be aikido. It is a wonderful paradox that all aikido students face sooner or later. It is very much like the paradox of life being impossible, but something we do every day.

In gassho,

Mark

Nafis Zahir
10-05-2008, 11:04 AM
Also keep in mind that many of the arts have borrowed from each other. Aikido does have some koshinage's that are from judo. I believe that many of the grappling/throwing arts have many techniques and throws that are alike. As the poster said above, it's really all in the way the technique is done.

B.J.M.
10-05-2008, 11:34 AM
I believe it is all about intention.

Forms of irimi-nage and kotegaeshi exist in karate schools as well as some of Aikido's throws and take downs can find their origins in some jujitsu styles.

What is ones intention and what's in their heart when the technique is being applied? This, to me anyway, is what makes the difference. Anything can be "Aikido" as long as the arts principles are being used and practiced.

It starts with the heart; everything else is just a label.

My two cents......

Ketsan
10-05-2008, 06:56 PM
You'd have to feel it.

ilia rudnitskiy
10-06-2008, 01:54 AM
Aikido is more of a concept, rather than a noun or adjective...
But if you're speaking of certain movements or martial arts, I guess you could say anything that is flowing, requires none of your own energy, and doesn't harm your opponent is Aikido-like.

Amir Krause
10-06-2008, 02:36 AM
Does anyone know of a technique which exists only in Aikido?

To the best of my knowledge, I have seen variation of most techniques in more then one other style, and I got to see those without exploring for them ...

Amir

sorokod
10-06-2008, 03:18 AM
Does anyone know of a technique which exists only in Aikido?

To the best of my knowledge, I have seen variation of most techniques in more then one other style, and I got to see those without exploring for them ...

Amir

I doubt that there is technique that is unique to Aikido. There is a set of techniques (with some fuzziness on the boundaries) that
are Aikido techniques. I guess that this set is pretty much determined by the grading requirements.

Larry Cuvin
10-06-2008, 09:38 AM
"I doubt that there is technique that is unique to Aikido."

What about yonkyo? The yonkyo finish might be Aikido specific. I'm not really sure but just trowing it out there.

sorokod
10-06-2008, 09:51 AM
"...What about yonkyo?...
What about it?

Flintstone
10-06-2008, 10:20 AM
What about yonkyo? The yonkyo finish might be Aikido specific. I'm not really sure but just trowing it out there.
It comes from Daito Ryu, so no. But I recall having read Rinjiro Shirata stating that Irimi Nage was a creation of O'Sensei. Maybe that one?

Demetrio Cereijo
10-06-2008, 10:36 AM
.. Irimi Nage was a creation of O'Sensei. Maybe that one?

Maybe.

http://www.kampaibudokai.org/DragonPreservationSociety/Petter13_files/petter71.jpg
"This last technique is special, in that it allows one to quickly throw ones opponent without effort; here O, standing close to N, strongly places his left foot behind the left leg of N, and quickly grabs his throat over his arms, throwing him grandly on the back."
Clear Instructions to the Excellent Art of Wrestling. Nicolaes Petter. Amsterdam 1674.

(There are also yonkyo and shihonage in that book).

C. David Henderson
10-06-2008, 10:42 AM
What a great drawing. Thank you.

DH

sorokod
10-06-2008, 11:00 AM
Excellent, here is the link: Clear Instructions to the Excellent Art of Wrestling (http://www.kampaibudokai.org/DragonPreservationSociety/Petter.php)

Flintstone
10-06-2008, 12:59 PM
Great try, Demetrio, but that looks more like Daito Ryu's Kubi Wa, from the Sankajo. No doubt one of the precursors of Irimi Nage.

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/1797/kubiwaob3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Anyway, more than the throw itself, maybe he was referring to the irimi entry? I don't really know, just a guess.

salim
10-06-2008, 10:53 PM
Aikido is more of a concept, rather than a noun or adjective...
But if you're speaking of certain movements or martial arts, I guess you could say anything that is flowing, requires none of your own energy, and doesn't harm your opponent is Aikido-like.

I have to say the concept of harming can be tricky, very subjective to the situation or the opponent that is involved. Aiki has a broad array of meanings to many people.

I would say more or less, subduing the opponent is more the way I would describe it. Using flow and the opponents energy to redirect and allow for some sort of lock/choke to stop the aggression. Some Aiki techniques will cause some degree of pain.

Flintstone
10-07-2008, 02:07 AM
Some Aiki techniques will cause some degree of pain.
Geez! Right! Any nage waza can be very destructive if uke doesn't know ukemi (in da streetz)... What's there about "love" and "the art of peace" in that?

ramenboy
10-07-2008, 01:52 PM
i think i remember kanai sensei saying something like '...if i do a judo technique in the spirit of aiki, then its aikido...'

Ron Tisdale
10-07-2008, 02:02 PM
I was always puzzled by Shirata Sensei's statement in that interview.

AAAAaaaalllllllleeeeeeeennnnnn! Are you there? Any ideas?

Best,
Ron (that was for Allen...)

Mato-san
10-08-2008, 06:51 AM
Great try, Demetrio, but that looks more like Daito Ryu's Kubi Wa, from the Sankajo. No doubt one of the precursors of Irimi Nage.

http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/1797/kubiwaob3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Anyway, more than the throw itself, maybe he was referring to the irimi entry? I don't really know, just a guess.
Wow nice! I always had pictured Irimi nage/kokyu nage to have multiple openings to choke.

Here is a nice flick you may have seen before...maybe not huge in the Aikido arena but if you appreciate relaxed application of technique that uses gravity not to push, pull or jerk.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=c8_FevrLdaw

Poetry in motion.

salim
10-08-2008, 07:55 AM
Wow nice! I always had pictured Irimi nage/kokyu nage to have multiple openings to choke.

Here is a nice flick you may have seen before...maybe not huge in the Aikido arena but if you appreciate relaxed application of technique that uses gravity not to push, pull or jerk.
http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=c8_FevrLdaw

Poetry in motion.

Awesome video clip. Gravity used at it's best.

Mato-san
10-08-2008, 08:33 AM
Beautiful isn't it... I would relate it to kotegaishi.. but done underneath uke... no jerk, push or pull....