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mathewjgano
10-02-2008, 04:21 PM
Any thoughts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBXXA5xhcQ0
...err...that is to say, does anyone know more about this than meets the eye? Derren Brown is one of my favorite "entertainers." Here, assuming he's not using conditioned uke, he seems to be utilizing the concept of no-touch atemi. What do you think?

lbb
10-02-2008, 05:55 PM
Great comedy! Back on the block we call that "flinching", and when you do that, you get...two for flinching.

mathewjgano
10-02-2008, 06:05 PM
Great comedy! Back on the block we call that "flinching", and when you do that, you get...two for flinching.

LOL! Oh the dreaded two for flinching! The real problem comes when you also flinch at the two incoming fisticuffs of steel. I'm still trying to pay those off from 1987.:uch: Fortunately I pay it forward every time my wife sees a slug-bug so my conscience rests easy.:D

Stefan Stenudd
10-02-2008, 07:12 PM
Here, assuming he's not using conditioned uke, he seems to be utilizing the concept of no-touch atemi. What do you think?
I think he insists that he's always doing "tricks" - be it with very sophisticated psychological manipulations.
I have seen that TV sequence before, and I was impressed. Maybe what we do in no-touch atemi is to make use of the same psychology?

The human senses are quite refined, so it is often difficult to draw a definite line between what's "real" and what's not. We perceive reality through our imagination, so it is a strong power even when not supported by physical evidence - maybe particularly strong when not physically evident.

It's a pity that magicians don't give away their secrets...

gdandscompserv
10-02-2008, 07:17 PM
I want him to punch me.:D

Joe McParland
10-02-2008, 09:51 PM
The experiment could be really telling if it did not work on a person who was not one of the teacher's students... or an aikido student for that matter---no one with years of being whacked hard for not falling ;-)

Ricky, or anyone else who says "Oooh! Oooh! Pick me!" would probably be fine ;-)

jennifer paige smith
10-02-2008, 09:58 PM
I want him to punch me.:D

Maybe I could do it instead?:D LOL

Demetrio Cereijo
10-02-2008, 10:05 PM
This other guy does a good version of the push test (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF9_QEqJMs4) and makes a skinny lady unliftable (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZm4VrjyB1A).

mathewjgano
10-02-2008, 10:10 PM
I think he insists that he's always doing "tricks" - be it with very sophisticated psychological manipulations.
I have seen that TV sequence before, and I was impressed. Maybe what we do in no-touch atemi is to make use of the same psychology?

The human senses are quite refined, so it is often difficult to draw a definite line between what's "real" and what's not. We perceive reality through our imagination, so it is a strong power even when not supported by physical evidence - maybe particularly strong when not physically evident.

It's a pity that magicians don't give away their secrets...

I agree. And what he does is essentially a trick...whether he's distracting people so he can slip them blank pieces of paper in lieu of payment, or using massive flooding of embedded suggestions to get them to design a specific advertizement, or making someone effectively flinch while standing directly behind them. I just happened across this bit and it reminded me of the no-touch stuff some folks do.
Obviously in the budo context we have to be able to be effective in the physical context, but I think an often overlooked facet of budo lies within the psychological realm. I view what he does in this bit as an example of leading...in fact nearly everything I've seen of his seems to specialize in the art of leading people through their mind/perception.
My understanding of Aikido involves beginning with some posture (mental or physical) which has innate openings or qualities, which are in turn designed to entice somewhat specific behaviors. Walking down the street with full strides and an upright posture, with simple confidence (i.e. mental posture) tends to dissuade the opportunistic mugger a bit more than slouching and looking sheepish, for example. The same kind of thing is true for direct interactions. Our postures affect the way people interact with us, whether they want to hurt us or beat us at chess or whatever. In short, how we carry ourselves is how we attempt to lead the world around us and how connected we are (how good our musubi is) determines how effective our daily purposes are. In the case of this video, Brown intends to make someone flinch. It helps that he has a Wing Chun guy demonstrate a punch and that the guy hit says it hurt (I'm sure that was part of his leading process).
Anyhow, it just got me thinking about the possible value to no-touch efforts.

mathewjgano
10-02-2008, 11:18 PM
Sorry for being off-topic to the forum, Jun. I posted this thread with the intent of discussing it in terms of Aikido.

SeiserL
10-03-2008, 08:35 AM
I think he insists that he's always doing "tricks" - be it with very sophisticated psychological manipulations. I have seen that TV sequence before, and I was impressed. Maybe what we do in no-touch atemi is to make use of the same psychology?
It is very interesting and entertaining.

Aikido is often referred to body "and mind" unification. Ki is often directed by the mind. Subtle manipulation of the mind then connects and direct the ki of the other person/uke. I have often been taught no-touch throws are based on this mental connection/direction and timing to take balance.

gdandscompserv
10-03-2008, 06:51 PM
Maybe I could do it instead?:D LOL
You may.:D

Hebrew Hammer
10-03-2008, 07:54 PM
I thought it was the most interesting that he DIDN'T choose the Wing Chun guy to be his volunteer for the the punch...I'm sure the results would have been different.