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xuzen
09-26-2008, 10:44 PM
Hello people,

I just tried boxing. (Still at experimental stage, not sure will continue or not at this moment).

I have some silly questions. Thank you for being patient with me.

With wraps and gloves, it is comfortable to punch the heavy bags and my opponents with all my strength. But once the gloves comes off, it hurts.

My question is, can boxing be street effective especially without the comfort of the gloves?

OK, go on, laugh at my question... but I am still in the dark about this matter.

Boon.

Demetrio Cereijo
09-26-2008, 10:51 PM
With wraps and gloves, it is comfortable to punch the heavy bags and my opponents with all my strength. But once the gloves comes off, it hurts.
Work progressively and you'll get used to the pain. Work on technique and don't strike the heavy bag with all your strenght... injure assured.

My question is, can boxing be street effective especially without the comfort of the gloves?
Yes, punching people barecknuckle works in the street, but hurts when you hit bones.

xuzen
09-26-2008, 11:24 PM
Work progressively and you'll get used to the pain. Work on technique and don't strike the heavy bag with all your strenght... injure assured.
OK boss, think finesse, rather than brute strength, got it.

Yes, punching people barecknuckle works in the street, but hurts when you hit bones
So again, in bare knuckle brawl, rather than hit blindly, think finesse and aim at the soft spot like liver, kidney or chin. I guess box smart, rather than being a complete brute.

Boon.

Walker
09-27-2008, 01:01 AM
Speaking in the realm of theory here, but you might want to think about boxing and what it represents. In the modern western context boxing is a sport based on the percussive use of the gloved hand. Boxing fundamentally changed when it evolved out of older bare knuckle prize fighting. Bare knuckle prize fights were long affairs with a more varied technical repertoire, but most importantly use of the fists was limited by their fragility. When gloves were added boxing began focusing on blows to the head in order to produce a knockout via head trama.

If you take the gloves out of boxing you have removed the basis for its technical repertoire and are asking for trouble. Better to investigate striking arts that evolved without an armored fist if that is your intended application.

John Connolly
09-27-2008, 12:20 PM
There are many ways to use the hand as a striking surface. Do some research, and then work progressively on being comfortable with the various techniques. A fist can be held and used in many ways. Think about what you want to achieve with your strike. Not all of these "fists" are suitable for bag work without self-injury. Even the "regular" western bare-knuckle boxing fist has a proper technique for utilization.

I'd recommend cross-training in some pugilistic art for proper striking methodology.

Kevin Leavitt
09-27-2008, 10:19 PM
watch the early UFCs before they wore gloves to get an idea of how bare knuckled hitting works. Guys start out punching, but once they tore up their hands, they were not so keen on it.

from a tactical standpoint, I think there are much better uses for your hands other than making a fist and striking a hard object and tearing up your hand.

John Connolly
09-28-2008, 11:37 AM
watch the early UFCs before they wore gloves to get an idea of how bare knuckled hitting works. Guys start out punching, but once they tore up their hands, they were not so keen on it.

from a tactical standpoint, I think there are much better uses for your hands other than making a fist and striking a hard object and tearing up your hand.

I agree. That's why I prefer grappling arts. But without a sound basis in striking, "Atemi" doesn't mean squat. Ideally, control over an adversary through throwing, locking, grappling, and choking will work just fine, and is preferable, less injurious to both parties, and more merciful. But some situations require a little more "oomph" to get to that ideal. That's when knowing how to not break your hand in a strike is helpful... can't apply kansetsu waza with crumpled mitts.

As far as atemi goes. I do not favor the use of the classic western fist, unless ya wanna duke it out and get a boxer's fracture. Palm heels, thumb jabs, 1or 2 knuckle strikes to soft spots, head-butts, elbows, knees, low kicks: that's a pretty good start for an atemi arsenal.

Andrew S
09-28-2008, 02:41 PM
I'd like to chip in and say that you might want to investigate some karate, particularly systems that make use of the makiwara and other conditioning equipment so you learn how to develop your fist and how to strike without busting your knuckles.
According to Sugano Sensei, there was a makiwara behind the Aikikai Hombu Dojo back in his uchi-deshi days.
Also, I've got to agree with John about not limiting your repetoire to just a simple closed fist. (Note that a makiwara can be used to condition elbows, knees and various striking surfaces of the hand)
As the other posters have noted, your strikes should be aimed at soft spots.

Kevin Leavitt
09-28-2008, 05:25 PM
Agree John. To me, striking (the actual mechanics of it) really doesn't require much skill....

It is everything else that goes along with it that does though! Which is why we practice jiujitsu. (or should!)

Makawara: I did it for years, and have thought about recently putting one up in my backyard again. I used to think it was all about developing the knuckles and the fist, I know believe it is important in developing overall body work and connection.

Palm strike, hammer fist and the like I agree are much better options in most cases than breaking your hand. Watch Royce Gracie fight bare handed in the early UFCs...he pretty much uses his palm.

Demetrio Cereijo
09-28-2008, 10:06 PM
Makawara: I did it for years, and have thought about recently putting one up in my backyard again. I used to think it was all about developing the knuckles and the fist, I know believe it is important in developing overall body work and connection.

Totally agree. I think the standing bags (http://mod.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p1956217dt.jpg) is a very good substitute for the old makiwara. It allows more techniques/combos.

Otoh, when I mentioned hitting the heavy bag full force without proper technique as a source of injuries, I was not talking about injuring the hands but wrists elbows and shoulders too. Busted knuckles are nothing compared with damaged rotator cuffs.

Hebrew Hammer
09-28-2008, 11:44 PM
If I can recommend...try striking with the rams head of your fist..the knuckles of your forefinger and middlefinger...these are the two strongest knuckles in your hand. Most fighters break their hands striking with the outside knuckles throwing hooks and uppercuts.

As mentioned above many hard core karatedo practice on wooden boards wrapped by rope...and even sometimes striking trees and boulders. Ouch...

My experience in Choy Lee Fut, we parcticed striking into buckets filled with beans, lima, pinto etc uncooked, of course...you can also substitute sand. Here are some other examples of hand conditioning.

Also Xu try using smaller gloves or just practicing using your wraps...

Or you can try this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSWojkjXvd0

Notice him striking with the Rams head knuckles....

Or you can practice on a wall mounted pad like in this Wing Chun video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSWojkjXvd0

Go slow with this kind of stuff. It takes time to build up your resistances...and sometimes its also a matter of genetics...I had one knuckle that would continually split right open after I would let it heal.

Also Xu try using smaller boxing gloves or doing your bag work with just wraps this will give you a more realistic experience.

xuzen
10-03-2008, 09:44 PM
If I can recommend...try striking with the rams head of your fist..the knuckles of your forefinger and middlefinger...these are the two strongest knuckles in your hand. Most fighters break their hands striking with the outside knuckles throwing hooks and uppercuts.

Yes, I consciously use the "ram" to connect to my target.

As mentioned above many hard core karatedo practice on wooden boards wrapped by rope...and even sometimes striking trees and boulders. Ouch...
Self mutilation is not my cup of tea.

Or you can try this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSWojkjXvd0

Notice him striking with the Rams head knuckles....

Or you can practice on a wall mounted pad like in this Wing Chun video:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSWojkjXvd0[/url
He he he... like I said, self mutilation is not my cup of tea.

Also Xu try using smaller gloves or just practicing using your wraps...
Using wraps only... that sounds like a mighty good idea. Thanks.

Boon.

John Connolly
10-04-2008, 04:03 PM
You should use wraps especially if you are using a bag in your gym/dojo. You don't want to scrape/split your hand open on the bag for your own safety and everyone else's.