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Mary Eastland
09-26-2008, 03:26 PM
There were two men ahead of me in line...the one right ahead of me was slight and much shorter that I am...I thought a forearm choke from behind would be nice for him....the other was bulky and slightly taller, though not as tall as I am. His pony tail would provide a good place to grab as a kokyu nage redirected his head. :cool:
Do you guys ever think like this in public? :freaky:
Mary

Lan Powers
09-26-2008, 04:28 PM
Of course.......more often, since the weirdness of the past few decades has increased the "shooting spree mentality".
I notice exit and escape routes.

My wife thinks I am weird.
Lan

Jeremy Hulley
09-26-2008, 04:40 PM
I always note escape routes these days and if walking after dark my brain goes into threat assement mode. Its mostly automatic. I don't notice it unless there is a potential problem.

Joe McParland
09-26-2008, 05:32 PM
Developing the skills, you see the opportunity to use them.

In seeing the opportunity to use them, you've lost your center.

More practice. ;-)

Janet Rosen
09-26-2008, 05:56 PM
Developing the skills, you see the opportunity to use them.
In seeing the opportunity to use them, you've lost your center.

How so?

Joe McParland
09-26-2008, 06:24 PM
How so?

The mind went off like a samurai while the body stayed behind to buy coffee and donuts.

Thinking of attacking the others, you are already dead.

Mary Eastland
09-26-2008, 06:47 PM
no donuts.
no attack.....just a strategy for defense.
Mary

Ketsan
09-26-2008, 07:12 PM
There were two men ahead of me in line...the one right ahead of me was slight and much shorter that I am...I thought a forearm choke from behind would be nice for him....the other was bulky and slightly taller, though not as tall as I am. His pony tail would provide a good place to grab as a kokyu nage redirected his head. :cool:
Do you guys ever think like this in public? :freaky:
Mary

It's a near constant process for me. I size up everyone everywhere I go nearly and plan out what I'd do if something were to happen.

Joe McParland
09-26-2008, 07:14 PM
no donuts.
no attack.....just a strategy for defense.
Mary

Ah, no donuts. Fine, give them back then---I'm hungry ;)

Shorty and Ponytail Guy didn't feel a thing when your mind attacked---and you did see the attack, didn't you?---but you were unquestionably dead for a moment. No one was driving your body while you were away. :hypno:

Mind & Body? Not integrated.

Ketsan
09-26-2008, 07:14 PM
The mind went off like a samurai while the body stayed behind to buy coffee and donuts.

Thinking of attacking the others, you are already dead.

There's a difference between thinking of attacking and realising attacking options. One contains intent the other doesn't.

Joe McParland
09-26-2008, 07:24 PM
There's a difference between thinking of attacking and realising attacking options. One contains intent the other doesn't.

Two hands reach toward you (ryokatadori?), one hand with intent, the other without. How do you respond?

Ketsan
09-26-2008, 07:49 PM
Two hands reach toward you (ryokatadori?), one hand with intent, the other without. How do you respond?

Are they owned by the same person or two different people?

Joe McParland
09-26-2008, 07:58 PM
Are they owned by the same person or two different people?

They belong to one person, of course!

Ketsan
09-26-2008, 09:19 PM
They belong to one person, of course!

I don't see how you can hand one hand having intention and one hand not since the hands are only responding to the intention in the mind of their owner.

Kevin Leavitt
09-26-2008, 10:03 PM
what kind of donuts did you buy?

dps
09-26-2008, 10:13 PM
There were two men ahead of me in line...the one right ahead of me was slight and much shorter that I am...I thought a forearm choke from behind would be nice for him....the other was bulky and slightly taller, though not as tall as I am. His pony tail would provide a good place to grab as a kokyu nage redirected his head. :cool:
Do you guys ever think like this in public? :freaky:
Mary

A major part of Aikido application is practicing awareness of your surroundings and visualizing scenarios and responses.

David

Joe McParland
09-26-2008, 10:38 PM
A major part of Aikido application is practicing awareness of your surroundings and visualizing scenarios and responses.

I can visualize myself on Pluto, playing a harpsichord concerto to a packed amphitheater while fending off hoards of ninja attackers---all while eating one of those donuts, of course. :cool:

Hell, I can imagine you doing the same, and I don't believe we've even met!

I'm not trying to be an ass, by the way. Yes, I used to do this all of the time too, especially while walking through a crowded mall---somehow flow of traffic was always against me. And yes, I think there's some value to "shadow boxing" and visualization aikido-style---especially when you have no partner immediately available.

However, if you believe mind-body integration / being centered / whatever is an objective or even a major aspect of your training, you're missing out if either your mind or your body is not in the game. When you're out and about and your mind drifts to combat, then everything you see around you is combat---and that can become a habit---and that can also become problematic. On a lesser scale, I found that when I was doing that giant randori in the mall, I wasn't fully present with my wife walking beside me. Poor choice.

Perhaps while not in the dojo with your training partners, the aspect of your practice that you should reinforce is practicing being where you are? :rolleyes:

Joe McParland
09-26-2008, 10:45 PM
what kind of donuts did you buy?

:D

bkedelen
09-26-2008, 10:46 PM
I usually identify the soft and hard cover, movement routes, strategic and tactical priority of each individual including a rough estimate of combat capability, and how gray I am appearing at any given time. It is all quite burdensome, actually. Unfortunately the djinni doesn't want to go back into the bottle.
By the way I completely disagree with Joe. You are almost guaranteed to be daydreaming when something starts. Why? Because humans are daydreaming 99% of the time. Its nothing to be concerned about, just machinery that runs independently of your intentions. Even the voice in Joe's head which just told him that I am wrong about this point is a daydream. Daydreaming, listening to the voice in our heads, etc. is just a natural process and I have never met anyone who could turn it off for more than a few seconds at a time. Even the best meditators I know have simply come to understand and love it as the biological process it is.

Hebrew Hammer
09-26-2008, 10:50 PM
I rarely think like that...only if I see some signs of aggression or potential conflict...then my mind usually starts assessing options, attacks, escapes, etc.

My mind usually focuses on which person is either talking to me, themselves, or wearing one of those damn blue tooth phones...my next thought is thanking our blue tooth friend for sharing all their personal business with everyone in line. Then my mind wanders to how oblivious/rude they are holding up the line trying to take phone orders at the register and finally all is forgiven upon gazing upon the holiest of the holy's, Gods finest creation, the Apple Fritter. Mongo like apple fritters.:D

mwible
09-26-2008, 10:52 PM
Haha, of course! What testosterone-rich man doesnt?

But really, i usually do, even at work i'll analyze my customers, think of the best place in which i would want to be in incase they became hostile, and definitly what the quickest way to drop them would be.

Glad to know that its not just me:p

Joe McParland
09-26-2008, 11:04 PM
Even the voice in Joe's head which just told him that I am wrong about this point is a daydream.

I like that :D

Anyway, 99% (sure, why not?) of the time we do not have the focus that the masters reach. Don't worry about it---embrace it!

... right? :hypno:

Joe McParland
09-26-2008, 11:09 PM
I don't see how you can hand one hand having intention and one hand not since the hands are only responding to the intention in the mind of their owner.

Hi, Alex- So we don't get lost inside the thread, send me a personal message if you'd like to follow through with this a bit :) -Joe

Mary Eastland
09-27-2008, 06:23 AM
what kind of donuts did you buy?

lol... Kevin, I see where your mind is at.:D
No donuts...I don't eat sugar.
mary

Mary Eastland
09-27-2008, 06:27 AM
hmmmm...I don't do it very often ...it just popped in.
And I know what it feels like to lose my center....this felt very centered.
Mary

Mark Uttech
09-27-2008, 06:33 AM
No sugar... So you take your coffee black, or just with cream? And decaffeinated? Are you right or left handed?

In gassho,

Mark

Buck
09-27-2008, 07:47 PM
There were two men ahead of me in line...the one right ahead of me was slight and much shorter that I am...I thought a forearm choke from behind would be nice for him....the other was bulky and slightly taller, though not as tall as I am. His pony tail would provide a good place to grab as a kokyu nage redirected his head. :cool:
Do you guys ever think like this in public? :freaky:
Mary

Yes. It is part of training. Training isn't left behind in the dojo when class is over.

I personally imagine on coming people in a mall as if they are about to attack me and run the scenarios in my mind.

dps
09-27-2008, 08:53 PM
There were two men ahead of me in line...the one right ahead of me was slight and much shorter that I am...I thought a forearm choke from behind would be nice for him....the other was bulky and slightly taller, though not as tall as I am. His pony tail would provide a good place to grab as a kokyu nage redirected his head. :cool:
Do you guys ever think like this in public? :freaky:
Mary

Was you after thier donuts and coffee or thier place in line?

David

phitruong
09-28-2008, 02:48 PM
it's dangerous to think while waiting for donuts and coffee. I have seen a dozen of jelly-filled and cream-filled donuts sneak up on a man along with their buddy the espresso. it was horrible. the carnage and destruction were total and absolute. the scene gave me nightmare for weeks. one should always be mindful and ever vigilant against such fiends. I have not found a martial arts that proves any affect against such incredible aiki and internal power of chocolate cream-filled donuts with sugar coating :D

Andrew S
09-28-2008, 03:52 PM
Just because you are paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.;)

Cynrod
09-28-2008, 05:30 PM
it's dangerous to think while waiting for donuts and coffee. I have seen a dozen of jelly-filled and cream-filled donuts sneak up on a man along with their buddy the espresso. it was horrible. the carnage and destruction were total and absolute. the scene gave me nightmare for weeks. one should always be mindful and ever vigilant against such fiends. I have not found a martial arts that proves any affect against such incredible aiki and internal power of chocolate cream-filled donuts with sugar coating :D

Don't forget about the POWDERED SUGAR that may blind you temporarily when it get in your eyes and that's a proven fact :freaky:

bkedelen
09-29-2008, 12:03 PM
Don't forget about the POWDERED SUGAR that may blind you temporarily when it get in your eyes and that's a proven fact :freaky:

And that is just what could happen at the doughnut shop. Can you imagine if you actually did any thinking at work or at school? There you are trying to solve some problem and POW your enemies take complete advantage of your inability to be 100% present in the moment every second of your life. What is the last thing you to cross your mind before they slit your throat? If only I had been more like the "masters!"

phitruong
09-29-2008, 01:46 PM
What is the last thing you to cross your mind before they slit your throat? If only I had been more like the "masters!"

you meant "stuff your throat", right? we are talking about killer donuts, right? if you travel in the orient, you will notice some sort of deep fried flower thing similar to donuts. those are the great great great grand daddy of donuts which, according to legend (based on phi's made up stuffs), have in ages past, defeated many masters and grand-masters in martial arts. if you noticed that many grand-masters tends to be a bit round in the middle. yup! 'em donuts left their marks. :)

bkedelen
09-29-2008, 02:10 PM
Aikido people seem to be especially susceptible to the mark of the doughnut!

Erick Mead
09-29-2008, 03:20 PM
... we are talking about killer donuts, right? ,... , according to legend (based on phi's made up stuffs), have in ages past, defeated many masters and grand-masters in martial arts. "The whole of reality is in the Center of Goodness. The Center is the Void -- but all Goodness surrounds and defines the Center of Emptiness. The Void is the Fullness and the Center of all Goodness --- but without the Goodness that surrounds, the Void is empty and without Form. As the emptiness in the belly is at last filled with Goodness -- so too shall the Goodness be consumed and at last become the Void -- joining the Goodness and Void as ONE -- at the Center."

[The next lesson shall dwell on the impermanence of Being and the transience of crumbs ...]

lbb
09-29-2008, 04:48 PM
Ah, but what kind of a donut shop was it? It makes a difference, you see. If it was a modern chain donut shop, those are weak flabby donuts, totally unsuitable as either a bludgeon or as a projectile. You could leave them sitting on the shelf for a couple of weeks and they'll be totally unchanged, they're so full of preservatives. In contrast, if you take a good old-fashioned preservative-free donut and let it sit out for 24 hours, you'll have something like a hockey puck. So, unless you're in a good old-fashioned donut shop, and unless they have a day-old shelf, I'm afraid this is all just paranoia.

Joe McParland
09-29-2008, 06:02 PM
And that is just what could happen at the doughnut shop. Can you imagine if you actually did any thinking at work or at school? There you are trying to solve some problem and POW your enemies take complete advantage of your inability to be 100% present in the moment every second of your life. What is the last thing you to cross your mind before they slit your throat? If only I had been more like the "masters!"

Virginia Tech
Columbine

Funny, Benjamin.

Sometimes people see things that aren't there.
Sometimes people don't see things that are there.
How might things change if people saw clearly?

MikeLogan
09-29-2008, 10:24 PM
Just to throw in my 2 cents.
Joe, I like your aim here, it is off beat from what everyone else is considering.

When you are buying donuts, buy donuts. Don't let the destruction of potential enemies distract you from your purpose, which is to buy donuts. That is the death mentioned in Joe's 2nd post.

Whether by the strike of the enemy or your own thrust, whether by the man who strikes or the sword that strikes, whether by position or rhythm, if your mind is diverted in any way, your actions will falter, and this can mean that you will be cut down.Now in the case of purchasing donuts, alternatively the above would suggest that you will be cut in front of in line whilst considering just how much this person's neck might actually sound like celery snapping.

If it was chado, or kyudo, or iado, we would see this immediately. You are there to perform the task of making tea, letting fly the arrow, or drawing the sword. It's an exercise in presence.

The funny part here is that, well, I'm just buying a donut, no need to focus. If what you're doing is not deserving of your full presence, then why do it?

*Disclaimer* I love donuts, and I get distracted from my purpose plenty, nor do I do nearly all the worthwhile stuff I should be doing. But then 'worthwhile' as a qualifier is another thread entirely.

As for what everyone else is discussing, the first thing I look for in environments when I get less than perfectly comfortable is obstacles, primarily what can I situate between myself and them, such as tables, pillars, unlucky passersby (kidding...). Then I size 'em up.

"The whole of reality is in the Center of Goodness. The Center is the Void -- but all Goodness surrounds and defines the Center of Emptiness. The Void is the Fullness and the Center of all Goodness --- but without the Goodness that surrounds, the Void is empty and without Form. As the emptiness in the belly is at last filled with Goodness -- so too shall the Goodness be consumed and at last become the Void -- joining the Goodness and Void as ONE -- at the Center." The zen of donuts and their holes. incredible ... : )

michael.

phitruong
09-30-2008, 07:05 AM
Just to throw in my 2 cents.
Joe, I like your aim here, it is off beat from what everyone else is considering.

When you are buying donuts, buy donuts. Don't let the destruction of potential enemies distract you from your purpose, which is to buy donuts. That is the death mentioned in Joe's 2nd post.

michael.

taking your 2 cents and raise you a nickel. :)

would you think the probability of physical harm, from eating and/or drinking something versus being attack by someone, higher or lower? how often you eat and drink something versus a confrontation with another human being?

now, as far as donuts holes go, they are, perhaps, the most underrated aiki-jujutsu practitioners. however, one must not discount of their effectiveness. you reach out for them and they disappear on you. they blend with your energy and use it against you and you can't resist with just one. their aiki is very affective. if that doesn't work, they will fall back on the jujutsu, which can lock your internal up tight and choke out your heart. you would not know what hit you until it was all over, but a down wash of bitter, desperately dark coffee. they have defeated my known and unknown masters. many are more known than unknown; some are unknown more than known; then others just rather not known, thus, remain unknown. :D

jennifer paige smith
09-30-2008, 10:54 AM
"On the one hand you feel this. On the other you feel that. That's why when making a decision we wring our hands together." -A Taxi Driver

no big deal.

jennifer paige smith
09-30-2008, 10:56 AM
Wait, just one more...

Just because you are paranoid it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.;)



Just cuz you're paranoid Donut mean their not out to get ya.hahahahahaha. I crack myself up.:)

Next guru, please.

Jen

Marc Abrams
09-30-2008, 03:45 PM
Mary:

Had you considered getting people together to start a class action law suit against Dunkin Doughnuts? Obviously the unhealthiness of fast food has led to an unacceptable increase in violent thoughts. :eek:

Marc Abrams

Joe McParland
09-30-2008, 03:54 PM
"On the one hand you feel this. On the other you feel that. That's why when making a decision we wring our hands together." -A Taxi Driver

no big deal.

Traveled far from home to hail a taxi, no?

jennifer paige smith
09-30-2008, 08:13 PM
Mary:

Had you considered getting people together to start a class action law suit against Dunkin Doughnuts? Obviously the unhealthiness of fast food has led to an unacceptable increase in violent thoughts. :eek:

Marc Abrams

Yeah or start an Ai-Ki-Donut class. It begins with a circle.............

Enrique Antonio Reyes
09-30-2008, 08:52 PM
Mary:

Had you considered getting people together to start a class action law suit against Dunkin Doughnuts? Obviously the unhealthiness of fast food has led to an unacceptable increase in violent thoughts. :eek:

Marc Abrams

There are Dunkin shops here in the Philippines. Good thing I got wind of this. Will do by best to avoid the place...better go hungry than get choked and kokyud...

jennifer paige smith
10-01-2008, 10:55 AM
Traveled far from home to hail a taxi, no?

Mountain came to Muhammad on this one.

Joe McParland
10-01-2008, 11:42 AM
Mountain came to Muhammad on this one.

Ah---then, of the two hands, the one without intention grabbed you first. ;)

jennifer paige smith
10-02-2008, 12:18 AM
Ah---then, of the two hands, the one without intention grabbed you first. ;)

Hi Joe,
It's intention, if any, was in-rokyu. But mostly, I didn't give a damn.I was just making my way working a day job and listening to authentic people.

So please,enough of this baby talk. My teachers have been talking about, but more importantly, doing this for years. And they have taught me the same.
If anyone want's to dialog with me like we are on the same page, let's go on.

Personally, I'm not lookin' for a new guru to teach me the same ol' tricks, So let's just talk straight.
'Scuze my bluntness, but we're all on borrowed time.

Thanks,
Jen

Joe McParland
10-02-2008, 01:25 AM
Hi Joe,
It's intention, if any, was in-rokyu. But mostly, I didn't give a damn.I was just making my way working a day job and listening to authentic people.

So please,enough of this baby talk. My teachers have been talking about, but more importantly, doing this for years. And they have taught me the same.
If anyone want's to dialog with me like we are on the same page, let's go on.

Personally, I'm not lookin' for a new guru to teach me the same ol' tricks, So let's just talk straight.
'Scuze my bluntness, but we're all on borrowed time.

Thanks,
Jen

Jen, you jumped in late on a sub-discussion within the thread between Alex and me that had withered in favor of the donut holes and such. I welcome anyone's input, of course---especially yours, since I've enjoyed your manner of diffusing tension with humor.

Anyway, I'm not a guru and I didn't offer myself as one, so why spend your borrowed time reacting to what or how I say or don't say? Spend it instead authentically discussing Ai-Ki-Donut class! :confused:

Or, better yet, address Alex's original statement. I won't judge you on the form of how you chose to do it. :)

jennifer paige smith
10-02-2008, 10:01 AM
Jen, you jumped in late on a sub-discussion within the thread between Alex and me that had withered in favor of the donut holes and such. I welcome anyone's input, of course---especially yours, since I've enjoyed your manner of diffusing tension with humor.


Thanks

jen

Marc Abrams
10-02-2008, 10:39 AM
Yeah or start an Ai-Ki-Donut class. It begins with a circle.............

Jennifer:

I tried that idea in order to strengthening my center (or is that engorge my center?), I fell into a hole! :eek: What do I do now?

Marc Abrams

Joe McParland
10-02-2008, 10:46 AM
Thanks

My apologies---especially if, at the late hour, I responded too harshly to your note :)

Alex said this: "There's a difference between thinking of attacking and realising attacking options. One contains intent the other doesn't." I was hoping to go a little deeper on this point.

In the sense of "If you're tired, sleep, and if you're hungry, eat," then, sure, "If you need to think, then think"---as long as you're consciously engaged. If that is what Alex meant by "intent," then I like it: He's consciously switched from the activity of standing in line waiting for coffee to the activity of considering attack options.

On the other hand (pun recognized but not intended ;) ), if by "realising" (citing the word, not the spelling---I saw Great Britain's flag by his name) he means he finds himself thinking of attack options while he was previously waiting in line---an unconscious drift into thought---then I'd say the center is lost.

Not sure I made the distinction well here, but it's a start... In essence, if you're lost in thought, then you're lost in thought---whatever the flavor of the thought.

Through training, you first become very conscious and aware of the aspects of what you're training---there's thought. With more (and more and more) training, the aspects move out thought deeper into mind/body. This goes for sizing up a room too---realizing attack and defense options. Practice it enough and it becomes a subconscious activity---no thought; the options are available to you (realized) without the need to think about them.

Ugh---too many words... :yuck:

Lan Powers
10-02-2008, 11:10 AM
< Not sure I made the distinction well here, but it's a start... In essence, if you're lost in thought, then you're lost in thought---whatever the flavor of the thought >

Probably the most concise part of this whole discussion.
(or at least the section relating to actual awareness of options.)
Althouh, I too, like the dreaded doughnut.
Lan

Joe McParland
10-02-2008, 11:13 AM
Althouh, I too, like the dreaded doughnut.

You may, of course, replace "thought" with "doughnut" and the statement retains it's truth and integrity ;)

jennifer paige smith
10-02-2008, 08:22 PM
Jennifer:

I tried that idea in order to strengthening my center (or is that engorge my center?), I fell into a hole! :eek: What do I do now?

Marc Abrams

My advice, Sutemi: Sacrifice the body to save the donut.

or Atemi: fill the hole with intention (creamed filled intention is a personal fav') .
Depending on the timing.
gambatte!

jennifer paige smith
10-02-2008, 08:31 PM
My apologies---especially if, at the late hour, I responded too harshly to your note :)

Through training, you first become very conscious and aware of the aspects of what you're training---there's thought. With more (and more and more) training, the aspects move out thought deeper into mind/body. This goes for sizing up a room too---realizing attack and defense options. Practice it enough and it becomes a subconscious activity---no thought; the options are available to you (realized) without the need to think about them.



Yeah, me too, it's ok. An angry monkey signed into my account last night and posted under my name. Damn Monkeeeyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!

Now that it's really me: With more and more training it moves into independent experience, connected, magnetic, and creative. The future is unwritten until we write it in our hearts. No action/reaction. Simply kokyu/rokyu, shobu-aiki.

Having had occasion to experience this.

Now where's that donut y'all promised me :o .

phitruong
10-03-2008, 09:03 AM
Now where's that donut y'all promised me :o .

Jennifer, how many times do I have to tell you that these donuts are exceptional martial artists? they have not only internal skills, they also have ninja skills. they have the ability to disappear before your very eyes. they are evil. they are the Weapon of Mass Distribution. Had Ueshiba or Takeda alive, they might not prevail. therefore, you must practice zanshin, mushin, and importantly donutshin when you enter such places. Heed my warning or we will miss you at practice. ;)

Erick Mead
10-03-2008, 09:59 AM
... therefore, you must practice zanshin, mushin, and importantly donutshin when you enter such places. ... ;)Aah, so desu. Dounota-shin 僮宣う心. (or shortened Doushin 僮心)
:p

For this, one must seek exceptional mastery of its subtle and ineffable meanings -- in remote and inaccessible places:

http://home.earthlink.net/~jimbaker6/aa/aaark.htm

jennifer paige smith
10-03-2008, 10:07 AM
Jennifer, how many times do I have to tell you that these donuts are exceptional martial artists? they have not only internal skills, they also have ninja skills. they have the ability to disappear before your very eyes. they are evil. they are the Weapon of Mass Distribution. Had Ueshiba or Takeda alive, they might not prevail. therefore, you must practice zanshin, mushin, and importantly donutshin when you enter such places. Heed my warning or we will miss you at practice. ;)

"There is no donut."-said like 'there is no spoon'

" Having the mind to attack, I am already behind it (The donut)."

"Even though surrounded by the many (donuts) treat them as one.":D

jennifer paige smith
10-03-2008, 10:09 AM
http://home.earthlink.net/~jimbaker6/aa/aaark.htm

Best one yet!!!!!!!hahahahahahahaha LOL hahahahahaha

Diane Stevenson
10-03-2008, 10:11 AM
Nope, If I enter a doughnut shop, I have completly lost my center. My "internal sensei" has been bound, duct-taped, and locked in a closet. :uch: Her shocked "you're not REALLY going to EAT that?" carefully deleted from the record. :rolleyes:

For the record, Mongo is right; apple fritters rule. But one should also consider the virtues of the custard-filled, chocolate-iced variety.