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Abasan
09-01-2008, 10:25 AM
Hello everyone.

Its been awhile since I've posted here but I hope everyone can still share their thoughts on this matter.

I've read somewhere that Osensei conducted misogi exercise periodically. If I remember correctly there was something like 12 different exercises. But the one that interests me is the fact that he changed his diet during this time. And that diet change is crucial to the cleansing.

It is said the diet turns his food intake into alkaline base. I am thought in chikung practice that most food are acid based. Alkaline base is good because its like anti cancer.

Unfortunately the article fails to mention the type of food osensei ate during his misogi training.

I was hoping if anyone here can enlighten me.

Thanks.

SeiserL
09-01-2008, 10:47 AM
While I cannot speak to the specifics of O'Sensei's nutritional guidelines, the internet is full of list of foods that alkaline the acidity.

Trying it myself right now. It make sense as a healthy way to eat.

Abasan
09-01-2008, 12:51 PM
Thanks anyhow. I do have some idea on alkaline foods out there now but I just wanted to know what Osensei ate... partly because I wanted to see if he replaced rice with something else. Cause I eat a lot of rice which is acidic. and fish too... uh and eggs.

Again thanks for replying.

Janet Rosen
09-01-2008, 02:14 PM
Out of curiosity: since the contents of the stomach are highly acidic, so the food that goes in gets broken down by enzymes (and I would think brought to pretty much a uniform ph) how does is matter what the ph is of the food you eat, unless you are eating nothing but super low ph foods?

A scan of ph of common foods (http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/%7Ecomm/lacf-phs.html) shows that most are below 7.
The ph of the stomach is generally under 3.

As I recall, OSensei's diet included liberal amounts of salt water, NOT to be recommended.

bkedelen
09-01-2008, 02:58 PM
The human body is a homeostatic system, you cannot significantly change your body's (which part, anyway?) PH through diet without overwhelming your kidneys and putting yourself in SERIOUS physical danger:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_homeostasis
If you want to adjust your diet with respect to improving human physical performance, that science is well defined. I suggest looking into the prescription followed by the world's best athletes:
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/start-diet.html

Ellis Amdur
09-01-2008, 09:53 PM
Nah, the salt water thing was a stupid macho competition he got into with a Japanese yoga fellow at the Omotokyo headquarters. This allegedly damaged his health.
My understanding is that the Misogi-kai from Kenzo Futaki and then Abe Seiseki emphasized a specialized diet, including brown rice. Ueshiba, I recall reading, would eat such a diet when staying with Abe, but did not otherwise subscribe to it.
Best

Janet Rosen
09-02-2008, 10:45 AM
Thanks, Ellis.

Peter Goldsbury
09-02-2008, 11:56 AM
Nah, the salt water thing was a stupid macho competition he got into with a Japanese yoga fellow at the Omotokyo headquarters. This allegedly damaged his health.
My understanding is that the Misogi-kai from Kenzo Futaki and then Abe Seiseki emphasized a specialized diet, including brown rice. Ueshiba, I recall reading, would eat such a diet when staying with Abe, but did not otherwise subscribe to it.
Best

On Lou Perriello's website, I saw a photo of Masatake Sekiya Sensei. The photo was clearly taken after I knew both gentlemen. Lou had separated from the New England Aikikai and Sekiya Sensei had aged somewhat, since I trained under him in the UK around 1978. Sekiya Sensei came to live in the UK for a year at the request of his son-in-law, K Chiba, in order to ease the pain for the British Aikikai of Chiba's withdrawal from the UK and his handover to Minoru Kanetsuka.

The point of this post is that the Sekiyas were macrobiotic and that Mrs Sekiya had cooked for O Sensei in the very last years of his life. Nothing about misogi: everything about 'balance'.

Actually, this was a very interesting experience for some members of the British Aikikai. Kanetsuka Sensei and his wife Susan were in the middle of very serious research into 'food suitable for aikido' and aikido was being very actively promoted for health at that time. So there was very much brown rice and miso soup in the Kanetsuka household (which was actually very good indeed). Sekiya Sensei accepted this, but gently argued that it was all a matter of balance of yin and yang. Genmai might be OK healthwise, but, really, what was lost on the yin roundabouts had to be regained on the yang swings at some point.

So there was no misogi diet for O Sensei, only 'balance'. I have mentioned the brown rice and miso regime in the Kanetsuka household and the closest thing I have ever been to a misogi diet was a small group of us surviving for two whole weeks exclusively on brown rice (the best California long-grain variety available in London) and green tea. I lost several kilos, became quite 'spaced out' on occasion, and remember that yonkyo somehow became much easier to accept--and do.

It was all the more interesting, therefore, to see that a certain Hombu deshi named Katsuki, sent to gain 'international experience' in the UK, cared nothing at all for brown rice or macrobiotics. After zazen and training on Saturday mornings at Ryushinkan, he always looked forward to a huge 'English' breakfast of fried eggs, bacon, sausage, mushrooms, tomatoes, black pudding, with bread fried in the fat, served in a nearby cafe close to the dojo. Occasionally he joked that this breakfast kept him going for the rest of the week. This opened our eyes to the 'reality' of the life of the Hombu-- always believed to be a Shangri-la of serious training, serious eating and--always--glowing health :D .

Best wishes to all,

Abasan
09-05-2008, 12:03 AM
"So there was no misogi diet for O Sensei, only 'balance'. I have mentioned the brown rice and miso regime in the Kanetsuka household and the closest thing I have ever been to a misogi diet was a small group of us surviving for two whole weeks exclusively on brown rice (the best California long-grain variety available in London) and green tea. I lost several kilos, became quite 'spaced out' on occasion, and remember that yonkyo somehow became much easier to accept--and do."

LoL... that's kinda funny.

Anyway, I seriously don't know how the diet is going to change my body. All that I'm doing is trying to find healthier food to ensure my continued well being. I just recovered from cancer last year which was the reason I missed aikido for 2.5 years. And during the course of my treatment (including complementary medicine), a lot came out about the types of food that we should take...

It was striking that they generally were slanting towards alkaline promoting foods... typically I get those using supplements like EM water, barley greens, spirulina etc etc. And then somewhere along the line I read about Osensei's misogi diet thingey... so that got me interested.

I asked one of my sensei and he told me he practice a Balanced diet. He eats enough but not a lot and he eats what is available or what he wants. I read about seasonal foods as well... and the cold and hot food diets. It all makes a lot of sense to me, so what I wanted to do was draw up a list of similar foods from different diet types. Hoping that by statistical 'mod' analysis I can identify the most effective food or food type.

The only diet that sort of turned me off was the blood group diet. Err might as well not eat anything.

Thanks for the reply.

Janet Rosen
09-05-2008, 12:17 AM
Congratulations on coming as far as you have and doing the work/research to keep getting better!

My favorite short idea is Michael Pollan's "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." His article is here (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28nutritionism.t.html?_r=1&ref=magazine&pagewanted=all).

Peter Goldsbury
09-05-2008, 12:32 AM
Hello Ahmad Abbas,

With respect to the kind of food O Sensei ate when he was doing misogi exercises, perhaps you consult someone like Shaun Ravens, who was a student of Abe Seiseki Sensei, who taught O Sensei calligraphy in the later years of his life.

In addition, though I spoke with tongue in cheek about the diet in the Kanetsuka household during the 1970s, it is also important to note that Kanetsuka Sensei was diagnosed with cancer around 1986. He has recovered and still leads a very active life training and teaching. Apart from his immense self-discipline, I am sure that his recovery was also due to his careful diet. His long-time students, such as Alex Megann, sometimes post here on Aikiweb.

I see you live in Malaysia. During a visit to Malaysia last year, I also visited Brunei and had some treatment for a knee injury. The very kind and efficient couple who treated me said that I ate far too much protein.

Best wishes,

PAG

Nicholas Eschenbruch
09-05-2008, 04:00 AM
Congratulations on coming as far as you have and doing the work/research to keep getting better!

My favorite short idea is Michael Pollan's "Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants." His article is here (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28nutritionism.t.html?_r=1&ref=magazine&pagewanted=all).

Thanks a lot - that is a great article!
N

Abasan
09-06-2008, 01:23 PM
That's a real interesting article. Thanks! This is when I wish I was Jamie Oliver.

Mr Goldsbury, that Bruneian couple were traditional specialists? Their names?

Peter Goldsbury
09-06-2008, 05:48 PM
That's a real interesting article. Thanks! This is when I wish I was Jamie Oliver.

Mr Goldsbury, that Bruneian couple were traditional specialists? Their names?

I think it was the Jag Therapy of K R I Jagadish. I was taken to a house in the suburbs of Banda Seri Bagawan. I think that the President of the Aikido Federation of Brunei Darussalam will know.

PAG

jennifer paige smith
09-07-2008, 10:43 PM
Jamie Oliver loves booze and butter! I wish I was him right now, too.

gates
09-25-2011, 09:34 AM
Ahmed,
I think I know the paper you refer to. I have looked into it and done some research myself. These are a couple of anecdotal statements I came across in the process (I do not attempt to provide proof here):

- Elite athletes reportedly have slightly more alkaline blood.
- Viruses don't survive so well in alkaline environments, (notably elite athletes in training don't catch colds all that often)
- Tendons and connective tissue becomes stiff with an acid based diet.
- Western diets, red meats, processed foods tend to make the body more acid
- Eating alkaline foods doesn't make you alkaline, the end effect is what is key

Another way to look at this is in the contest of yin/yang expansion/contraction. Some foods are more strongly yang - contracting , for instance red meat, salt. Stress is also a contracting force. Other foods are strongly expanding fruit - sugars.

The bodies natural pH balance is slightly alkaline, bodily functions are better and beneficial bacteria more likely to flourish. (the body ecology diet, Donna Gates. According to Gates (no relation to me!) Acid Yang contractive states are not in natural balance and have derogatory effects on the ecological balance of the human body.

Interesting Macrobiotics (http://www.macrobiotics.co.uk/yin.htm) uses the same principles. As a further aside it is worthwhile noting that the Torifune Undo exercise description from the same document that you referenced in the OP, is working on the balancing the same expansive/contractive, yin/yang, male/female forces. The same principles I might add that the pivotal in the Kototama Principle.

Where I work out in the Australian bush there had been no rain for a couple of years, except the odd, odd thunder storm. Recently it rained very heavily, within a few weeks the flowers and grasses were amazing. Seeds contain the total life potential of the plant, if the correct conditions are not present they can, like in the bush, survive for thousands(?) of years, still maintaining life. For this reason they are considered to contain the strongest most enduring concentrating energy for the human body to consume. Whole grains. (PM me for citation if interested in further reading)

Keith

sakumeikan
09-25-2011, 03:09 PM
On Lou Perriello's website, I saw a photo of Masatake Sekiya Sensei. The photo was clearly taken after I knew both gentlemen. Lou had separated from the New England Aikikai and Sekiya Sensei had aged somewhat, since I trained under him in the UK around 1978. Sekiya Sensei came to live in the UK for a year at the request of his son-in-law, K Chiba, in order to ease the pain for the British Aikikai of Chiba's withdrawal from the UK and his handover to Minoru Kanetsuka.

The point of this post is that the Sekiyas were macrobiotic and that Mrs Sekiya had cooked for O Sensei in the very last years of his life. Nothing about misogi: everything about 'balance'.

Actually, this was a very interesting experience for some members of the British Aikikai. Kanetsuka Sensei and his wife Susan were in the middle of very serious research into 'food suitable for aikido' and aikido was being very actively promoted for health at that time. So there was very much brown rice and miso soup in the Kanetsuka household (which was actually very good indeed). Sekiya Sensei accepted this, but gently argued that it was all a matter of balance of yin and yang. Genmai might be OK healthwise, but, really, what was lost on the yin roundabouts had to be regained on the yang swings at some point.

So there was no misogi diet for O Sensei, only 'balance'. I have mentioned the brown rice and miso regime in the Kanetsuka household and the closest thing I have ever been to a misogi diet was a small group of us surviving for two whole weeks exclusively on brown rice (the best California long-grain variety available in London) and green tea. I lost several kilos, became quite 'spaced out' on occasion, and remember that yonkyo somehow became much easier to accept--and do.

It was all the more interesting, therefore, to see that a certain Hombu deshi named Katsuki, sent to gain 'international experience' in the UK, cared nothing at all for brown rice or macrobiotics. After zazen and training on Saturday mornings at Ryushinkan, he always looked forward to a huge 'English' breakfast of fried eggs, bacon, sausage, mushrooms, tomatoes, black pudding, with bread fried in the fat, served in a nearby cafe close to the dojo. Occasionally he joked that this breakfast kept him going for the rest of the week. This opened our eyes to the 'reality' of the life of the Hombu-- always believed to be a Shangri-la of serious training, serious eating and--always--glowing health :D .

Best wishes to all,
DearPeter,
Yes the diet you mention was the result of Mr/Mrs Sekiya coming to the U.K. Mr K. and his wife Susan also tried the Macrobiotic diet.Had a go myself but the fish and chips, Iron Brew got the better of me.As I am a little bit chubbier than my early days
I should really go back and do the Miso soup, brown rice stuff again.Better than a gastriic band or a hidden corset.Cheers, Joe.

Abasan
09-25-2011, 08:23 PM
Keith, nice. If you bear no relation to that gates, do you by any chance have any with THE gates?

anyway, that does help clarify certain things i've been looking into. However going to whole grains raises a whole lot of other issues to think about. I'm referring to paleo diet and why wheat might be bad for you. This certainly jives with what my nutritionist have to say about it,

Right now, I can only think the world of this regime.
Fruits before anything. Less carbs, more white meat and veg. Snack with seeds and nuts. And the all encompassing rule of minimize sugar and salt. Avoid processed foods.

Janet Rosen
09-25-2011, 11:35 PM
anyway, that does help clarify certain things i've been looking into. However going to whole grains raises a whole lot of other issues to think about. I'm referring to paleo diet and why wheat might be bad for you. This certainly jives with what my nutritionist have to say about it,
Right now, I can only think the world of this regime.
Fruits before anything. Less carbs, more white meat and veg. Snack with seeds and nuts. And the all encompassing rule of minimize sugar and salt. Avoid processed foods.

I think it's a mistake to think any one way of eating (other than avoiding processed crap that poses as food) is best for everyone. I suspect part of why research to date is contradictory is because it doesn't and at this point probably can't account for individual differences, genetic or not, in enzymes, metabolism, etc.
Anecdotally I know people who swear by a Paleo diet and seem to do well on it. I'm one of those who does really well on vegan, low fat, all the veg, fruit and whole grains you want way of living.

kewms
09-26-2011, 12:03 AM
If you want to adjust your diet with respect to improving human physical performance, that science is well defined. I suggest looking into the prescription followed by the world's best athletes:
http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/start-diet.html

I think there's a great deal of controversy over whether this diet is, in fact, followed by the "world's best athletes," or even the world's best Crossfitters. In particular, many athletes need rather more carbohydrates than that prescription in order to support their training loads.

Katherine

gates
09-26-2011, 01:02 AM
The body knows what it needs, just as the termites can intuit the coldest winter and build extra thick walls to their houses well ahead of time. The problem is that humans hold onto ideas and form complex habits as individuals and society wide.
Old Mac Donald had a farm, then the rain forest got it the way, so he chopped it down. Most peoples bodies senses are so clogged that they no longer know what they need.
If you train of course you are going to be more hungry, if you have lost the instinct to eat then you are really in trouble.

Chris Li
09-26-2011, 01:56 AM
The body knows what it needs, just as the termites can intuit the coldest winter and build extra thick walls to their houses well ahead of time. The problem is that humans hold onto ideas and form complex habits as individuals and society wide.
Old Mac Donald had a farm, then the rain forest got it the way, so he chopped it down. Most peoples bodies senses are so clogged that they no longer know what they need.
If you train of course you are going to be more hungry, if you have lost the instinct to eat then you are really in trouble.

Animals often breed to over population - that ends up being corrected by a die-off, not instinct.

Of course, since humans have been more successful than any other species, it's clear what the winning strategy has turned out to be so far.

Not to say that there are no problems, or that nothing can be done better.

Best,

Chris

gates
09-26-2011, 02:06 AM
Chris,
Think you have taken this on a tangent but I will flow with it.
In the context of what you are talking about how do you measure success? Population numbers? Biomass?

Tim Fong
09-26-2011, 02:06 AM
Just switching to brown rice from white rice is probably a big step up, health wise, since it reduces the risk of type 2 diabetes according to the scientific research I have read. Also, anecdotally, I see a lot of type 2 diabetes developing in middle aged people among ethnic groups that heavily eat white rice.

I personally avoid the stuff whenever possible.

Chris Li
09-26-2011, 02:17 AM
Chris,
Think you have taken this on a tangent but I will flow with it.
In the context of what you are talking about how do you measure success? Population numbers? Biomass?

Sort of a pointless argument, isn't it? I'm sure you can think up any number of measures by which humans are not the most successful species.

In any case, my original point was, I think, relevant. Just because it's "natural" doesn't make it the best. Millions of species have died off "naturally" in spite of their unclogged instincts.

For that matter - why is a human action (such as holding onto ideas and complex habits) any less "natural" than one performed by, say, a rabbit?

Best,

Chris

gates
09-26-2011, 02:52 AM
Chris,
The thread is about diet , not evolutionary forces. I am happy to discuss but let's not derail this thread.
Keith

Abasan
09-26-2011, 06:44 AM
Yes Janet, that's true. Everybody is unique and off the shelf dieting isn't going to help much. The most sensible approach would be to use good common sense and hope it hasn't been compromised by old wives tales.

Moderation is key.

Eating naturally is probably good too. I.e. Eating locally produced food stuff and according to seasons, the Indonesians tell me they eat healthier because they don't rely on the fridge as much as we do. Instead they buy fresh produce daily.

As for brown rice. Yeah well I eat that. Carbs are carbs...if you don't use them, prepare to get fat.

lbb
09-26-2011, 07:18 AM
I think it's been established (and it's definitely common sense) that elaborate diets such as the so-called Paleo diet, work well in the short term because, with their intense focus on the minutia of diet, they make people very much aware of eating. When you're paying close attention to eating, you're less likely to overeat, more likely to eat regularly, etc. That change alone encourages a tendency towards healthier weight and better health overall. Unfortunately, elaborate diets tend not to work long term because most people can't follow them for very long (although there are exceptions -- my boss is one).

Abasan
09-26-2011, 11:21 AM
I don't really know if it only works in the short term, but a diet that basically allows you to eat as much as you want as long as it's meat, veg, seeds, nuts, tubers and fruits, has quite a decent variety for you to choose from. Eliminating carbs from wheat is the mainstay and they argue that for thousands and thousands of year, man lived as a hunter gatherer and we it would be more natural for us to eat like that. It is only fairly recently in the human timeline of existence that we actually increase our dependancy on grain.

I won't argue on on how agriculture created modern civilization nor would I argue that grain centric diet has been proven to be the main reason for increased obesity in America... But I would argue that modern grains (the same with modern meat farming) are producing food which is basically not as healthy as it could be for men. I see the modern grain as similar to the special food we stuff our cows with. Something to fatten em quickly.

Remember producing good food was expensive. And it was during the war that corn syrup made it's greates impact. A cheap food resource in terms of dollars per calory ratio.

Abasan
09-26-2011, 11:44 AM
Having reread chris's post... I think it's a valid point that was raised. Just becaue it's natural doesn't mean it's good.

The ying and yang view of things also get you to look at food sources from a bigger perspective. And through it's application, the search for balance.

But if you take an even greater step back..don't you wonder why there is such an abundance of variety of foodstuff in this world?

Imagine you lived in a world where there was only chicken for meat, bananas for fruit, spinach for veg and rice for carbs... Won't that be something.

The human body, theoretically doesn't need much to survive. Get all the vitamins and minerals in place and you'll live a fairly long and healthy life. Yet such variety exists.

Therefore I'd like to conclude that variety exists because men in himself is varied. One persons meat, another's poison... You could say.

In the end it boils down to us listening to our inner self to find the best food for our body.

lbb
09-26-2011, 02:28 PM
I don't really know if it only works in the short term, but a diet that basically allows you to eat as much as you want as long as it's meat, veg, seeds, nuts, tubers and fruits, has quite a decent variety for you to choose from. Eliminating carbs from wheat is the mainstay and they argue that for thousands and thousands of year, man lived as a hunter gatherer and we it would be more natural for us to eat like that. It is only fairly recently in the human timeline of existence that we actually increase our dependancy on grain.

But during all those hunter-gatherer years, people lived in a calorie-poor environment. They certainly weren't able to eat as much as they wanted, and they had to work very hard to get it. Certainly they didn't get it sitting at a desk.

TheAikidoka
10-11-2011, 03:41 PM
Hello everyone.

Its been awhile since I've posted here but I hope everyone can still share their thoughts on this matter.

I've read somewhere that Osensei conducted misogi exercise periodically. If I remember correctly there was something like 12 different exercises. But the one that interests me is the fact that he changed his diet during this time. And that diet change is crucial to the cleansing.

It is said the diet turns his food intake into alkaline base. I am thought in chikung practice that most food are acid based. Alkaline base is good because its like anti cancer.

Unfortunately the article fails to mention the type of food osensei ate during his misogi training.

I was hoping if anyone here can enlighten me.

Thanks.

Hi Ahmad,
Here is something I found on Aikido Journal website, By Gakku Homma Sensei, the last Uchi Deshi of the founder in Iwama. It describes the founders spring time diet I hope you find this helpul. I will post the direct link fot the intire article at the bottom.

Founderís Springtime Menu Sample

Mochigayu (Rice congee with pounded sticky rice cake)
Four parts water to one part rice. Let rice soak overnight. Over a high heat bring to a boil, reduce heat, cover and cook slowly for about thirty minutes. Cut mochi rice cake into bite size pieces and add to congee while cooking. Add a pinch of salt to taste.

Nanohana (Rapeseed leaves), Horenso (Spinach), Shungiku (Early spring chrysanthemum leaves) Ohitashi (Boiled and chilled vegetables)
Choose one spring vegetable and pick fresh leaves. Bring two parts water to a boil and add a pinch of salt. Add vegetable leaves and boil about thirty seconds until the leaves change color. Rinse immediately in cold water and gently squeeze out excess water. Mix greens with shaved katsuobushi (dried bonito), and a few drops of soy sauce. Toss with chopsticks. Squeeze out gently any excess soy sauce and serve chilled.

Nanohana or Horenso no Goma Ae (Rapeseed leaves or spinach mixed with sesame miso)
Prepare vegetables as above. In a mortar and pestle grind together black sesame, miso paste and mirin (cooking sake) until sticky. Toss mixture and vegetables with chopsticks and serve chilled.

Nira no Shoga Ohitashi (Boiled and chilled Japanese leek with ginger)
Japanese leeks are completely different than American Leeks, but are available in most oriental markets. Prepare vegetable as above. In a mortar and pestle grind ginger and mix with a few drops of soy sauce. Toss with nira with chopsticks. Squeeze out any excess soy sauce and serve chilled.

Niratama (Japanese leek with egg)
In a saucepan add a small amount of water, katsuobushi, shiitake mushroom or niboshi (dried sardines). Bring to a boil and add nira. When nira reduces down, add a pinch of salt, and slowly add one beaten egg. When the egg is cooked through it is done. Tofu can be added as an option.

Shungiku Tofu Ae (Chrysanthemum leaves with tofu)
Wash chrysanthemum leaves thoroughly. Boil in four parts water for about thirty seconds until the leaves change to a strong green color. Rinse in cold water and squeeze out excess water. Cut in two inch lengths. Wrap a block of tofu in a cotton cloth and squeeze out all excess water. In a mortar and pestle, add tofu, miso, sugar and peanuts (peanuts optional). Grind to make a paste. Mix tofu mixture and shungiku with chopsticks and serve chilled.

Miso soup is usually served with every meal.
Nira, baby carrot leaves, daikon leaves, spinach, tofu, age (deep fried tofu), wakame (young kelp), and tororo (shaved kelp) are just some of the ingredients that can be added for a springtime taste.

Condiments for every meal
Small flat sake cups of black rice vinegar and sake as a dip for side dishes. Chilimen Jako (Dried baby eels, a crunchy source of calcium). Vegetable pickles.
Dishes for Special Occasions

Asazuki (Sweetened sticky rice)
Soak sticky rice and grind in a mortar and pestle until milky. In a saucepan boil slowly bring to a boil stirring constantly until sticky in consistency. Add rice vinegar and sugar to taste. Fold in mikan (Japanese tangerine) slices for color and taste.

Kamaboko Imo (Steamed salmon and potato fishcake)
Boil potatoes with the skin on. Wrap potato in a cloth and twist until the skin pops open. Peel away skin and discard.

Marinate salmon with equal amounts of salt and sugar for a few hours. Chop salmon with a cooking knife and grind lightly in a mortar. Mix with potato.

Grate Yamaimo (Japanese yam) in mortar and mix with potato and salmon. Add a small amount of flour.

Knead and form into ball. Steam until cooked through.

(This was a dish the Founder survived on in the early days pioneering in Hokkaido.)

This menu sample is not eaten all in one sitting. Each meal would have only one or two side dishes at the most. The side dish portions for the Founders meals were quite small, only a few spoonfuls. An entire meal would equal about one cup of food if measured together.

This sample menu is not made of exact recipes. In those days we did not use measuring cups or spoons so it is difficult to describe exact amounts. I still make some of these recipes today in my own restaurant. For home use, all of the ingredients are available today in Oriental markets here in the United States.

http://www.aikidojournal.com/article?articleID=114

Yours in Budo

Andy B

AikidoDog
10-11-2011, 04:13 PM
I remember aiki summer camps with this but they also had sake!;)

Jon Haas
10-11-2011, 04:48 PM
Hi Mary,
I just wanted to weigh in on your comment here because I think this is a huge misconception. The paleo / primal diet is really not a "diet" per se. A diet is a short term solution to a long term problem. Eating paleo is much more a healthy lifestyle choice rather than a diet. And, as far as it being short term goes, evolutionary biology has established humans ate this way for well over 2 million years. Prior to the Argricultural Revolution 10,000 years ago, you had no choice. So, actually the current grain based diet a la the USDA food pyramid is the short term diet which does not work. :)

I think it's been established (and it's definitely common sense) that elaborate diets such as the so-called Paleo diet, work well in the short term because, with their intense focus on the minutia of diet, they make people very much aware of eating. When you're paying close attention to eating, you're less likely to overeat, more likely to eat regularly, etc. That change alone encourages a tendency towards healthier weight and better health overall. Unfortunately, elaborate diets tend not to work long term because most people can't follow them for very long (although there are exceptions -- my boss is one).

Rev.K. Barrish
10-11-2011, 05:51 PM
Misogi and Diet

Shinto ritual and practices have the ability to effect the KI. KI is primal causer…everything is started by KI. The Great Universe is started by KI. Your mood, decisions and actions are initiated by Ki. Of course negative Ki exists but we can purify ourselves to sense Ki and to receive positive Ki. This is the teaching of Sarutahiko Okami, Kami of KI, positiveness, grounding and progress in harmony with divine Nature who along with his wife AmenoUzume no Mikoto, Kami of Arts, meditation and joy form the principal Kami of Tsubaki Okami Yashiro.

We create our world and influence fate through thoughts, words and actions. This is natural law. Misogi Harai, the genius of Shinto offers us the sacred technology to purify negative energies that can be stored in our physical bodies as well as or subconscious.

In the literal sense Misogi Harai refers to the practice of casting off impurities and sharpening our senses and our ability to respond to the Ki of Divine Nature by ritual bathing in a river, waterfall or sea.
In practice Misogi-gyo can refer to a variety of activities of purifying the body/ physiological structure, the heart/ emotional body, the environment, and the spirit/ astral body.

Purification of the physical body involves the literal washing away of external dirt as well as purifying the blood stream (alkalinizing/ yangizing) through diet.

This kind of adjusted eating has the effect of raising the vibrational level and increasing intuition..this kind of grain-based diet rich in seasonal fruits and vegetables was at one time called ‘gyo” and is comprised of the most yang elements of the yin world to centripetalize or yangize our bodies. This diet was popularized in modern times under the name of Macrobiotics by Mr. Yukikazu Sakurazawa (western name: George Oshawa).

Shinto teaches us: everything in Nature is born, matures and perishes---everything has a beginning and an end. To live and grow as the healthy child of Okami we digest well, we are sustained by divine cosmic vitality through the sacred act of eating.

Being alive and being present is easily seen by relation to food-- that which we receive from Divine Nature that directly connects us to the Sun, to the Seasons and to Daishizen no Meguri- the ceaseless movements of Divine Nature/ Kannagara.

It is important to realize that the two most important factors regarding a healthy relationship with the food that sustains our lives are 1) gratitude and 2) appreciation while avoiding extremes.

That being said to move towards a diet based on whole grains and seasonal fruits and vegetables while minimizing processed foods and stimulants would be helpful for almost everyone in general. For those wanting to build the health for themselves and or their families this is essential information. For those on a spiritual path the knowledge of how to refine one’s Ki and establish inner and outer harmony while increasing the ability to harmonize with the ceaseless flow of divine nature is a vital tool…and having access to knowledge how to use food as medicine in case of minor or major difficulties is also important in our current age.

Itadakimasu….All the trees and plants thrive and grow by receiving the blessings of divine solar energy. When we eat these sacred plants we receive the life sustaining cosmic vitality of Amaterasu Omikami. I will humble partake/receive………….

graham christian
10-11-2011, 05:57 PM
Hi Ahmad.
Interesting thread. I did a macrobiotic diet when young and bought some books on it then and from your early posts I agree that was probably more to do with so called 'misogi' diet or at least it's mainstay. I remember how one book pointed to the ancient chinese ways of medicine and thus it's all part of that field. All based on balancing yin and yang and knowing which foods were yin and which yang and to what degree and then to what your body needs in what proportions and why.

Quite a study for anyone interested and I may say I personally didn't go into it very deeply.

I got more interested in nutrition. Once again a matter of study and seeing how it applies and why and when etc. Also at the end it also comes down to recognising what your particular body requires nutritionally taking into account other factors like geneology, environment etc.

Then as you say it's down to recognising in yourself what it needs. It does tell you but do we listen to it?

Examples are all around us of this and fascinating to look at from an educated viewpoint be it in whichever field of health. For instance when pregnant women get cravings for certain foods. That is their body telling them, let's say from a nutritional point of view, that they need those nutrients found in that food. The cravings are also due to the woman being at those times definitely more in tune with their bodies and a baby demanding natural diet.

Anyway, that's my two cents. Hope you are getting healthier by the day.

Regards.G.

graham christian
10-11-2011, 06:00 PM
Rev. Barrish.
Wow. That was great to read. Thank you.

Regards.G.

MM
10-11-2011, 07:11 PM
How many people who focused on the spiritual only and practiced misogi exercises have replicated Ueshiba's abilities?

One of Ueshiba's students provides a hint to the answer. Around 1952, Seiseki Abe says this about talking to Ueshiba,

"How did you ever learn such a wonderful budo", and he (Ueshiba) answered, "Through misogi." Now I had been doing misogi since 1941 and when I heard that Aikido came from misogi, suddenly "snap", the two came together. (Aiki News Issue 045)

Seiseki Abe had been doing misogi for quite awhile prior to meeting Ueshiba or training in aikido and Abe wasn't anywhere near Ueshiba's skills or abilities, nor did he even see misogi and aikido as being similar.

However, under Ueshiba's tutelage, Seiseki Abe continued to grow as a martial artist. It can be inferred from this that something that Ueshiba knew and had trained was the underlying basis for powering his misogi exercises.
It was *not* misogi that powered Ueshiba's skills.

lbb
10-11-2011, 07:54 PM
Hi Mary,
I just wanted to weigh in on your comment here because I think this is a huge misconception. The paleo / primal diet is really not a "diet" per se. A diet is a short term solution to a long term problem.

Short term, long term, diet, lifestyle, doesn't matter. The hunter-gatherers on whom the so-called "paleo" diet is ostensibly modeled lived in conditions of food scarcity and had to do hard physical labor for what they could get. If you hope to mimic what they ate (which you really can't, but never mind that), based on the idea that it was somehow healthy for them, you also need to eat the same quantities and live the same kind of life. And then die at 40.

Jon Haas
10-12-2011, 05:28 AM
Hard physical labor? The Hunter - Gatherers were referred to as the original affluent society! They had much more free time than we do today. Not to mention that "hard physical labor" kept them in awesome shape. Looking at the bone density and attachment points on HG bones show they were stronger, fitter, and healthier than us. Yes, life expectancy was around 40, but that is an average. Meaning many more people died due to injury and disease b/c of lack of modern medicine. That does not mean everyone died at 40. Not to mention, post-agricultural revolution, the life expectancy dropped! What does that tell you? Looking at life expectancy in the middle ages, it was 18!! I'd much rather take my chanced as an HG any day of the week. :)

Seriously, check out The Primal Blueprint by Mark Sisson or read The Paleo Solution by Robb Wolf. Both excellent books that are highly researched and interesting reads.
Short term, long term, diet, lifestyle, doesn't matter. The hunter-gatherers on whom the so-called "paleo" diet is ostensibly modeled lived in conditions of food scarcity and had to do hard physical labor for what they could get. If you hope to mimic what they ate (which you really can't, but never mind that), based on the idea that it was somehow healthy for them, you also need to eat the same quantities and live the same kind of life. And then die at 40.

Abasan
10-12-2011, 01:23 PM
Lawrence, Andrew and others... Thanks for the input especially the specific food stuff related to misogi.

I'm reminding myself of course what is common knowledge or common sense may not necessarily be true. Sometimes it's just bad science perpetuated ad nauseum that eventually everyone understands as truth.

Misogi to get aiki is not what we're after here. Fine fine, aiki is a grand old thing, well deserving it's numerous topics, now get out of here will ya?

A few things I've read since my last post I'm going to add here. You guys remember wiki leaks? Well, it's sort of winding down now... But it's left us a bunch of goodies to sieve through.

One of which of the whole GMO thingey. So to cut it short, GMO is bad for you. FDA warns against it but has long since been muffled from the powers that be. But then again, all of us knew that anyway.

Also, eat cooked broccoli with chili to activate it's vitamins. Well there you go... There's always something new to think about.

Finally I agree totally that you need to thankful for your food. Human beings need to appreciate things kore, because we have to be fair to ourselves.

lbb
10-13-2011, 07:55 AM
Hard physical labor? The Hunter - Gatherers were referred to as the original affluent society! They had much more free time than we do today.

Really? Got a cite for that? They had abundant food, comparable to what someone today eating a so-called "paleo" diet would have available, and didn't have to work hard to get it? That defies all reason.

Seriously, check out The Primal Blueprint by Mark Sisson or read The Paleo Solution by Robb Wolf. Both excellent books that are highly researched and interesting reads.

I don't think that has anything to do with the point I'm making. The validity of their diet or nutritional program or wankel rotary engine or whatever you want to call it is not at issue; it may be perfectly valid. But any diet whose quantities are best describe as "as much as I want" is not the diet of our ancestors.

Jon Haas
10-13-2011, 08:23 AM
Mary,

I never said that they always had abundant food and didn't have to work hard for it. That's silly.
We can sit here and nit pick each tiny little detail forever, but let's not get crazy. The point is that eating a diet of mainly proteins, fats, and veggies / fruit / nuts as carbs (which is pretty much exactly how our ancestors ate regardless of quantity available) is healthier than a grain based diet. You don't like calling it "paleo"? Then call it neo-paleo. Call it paleo-like. It really doesn't matter to me. :)
Also, just fyi, the "diet" does simulate times of scarcity through what is call Intermittent Fasting (IF). And, no it may not be exactly how long our ancestors went without food, but it does increase fat burning and do some really cool hormonal balancing things.

Really? Got a cite for that? They had abundant food, comparable to what someone today eating a so-called "paleo" diet would have available, and didn't have to work hard to get it? That defies all reason.

I don't think that has anything to do with the point I'm making. The validity of their diet or nutritional program or wankel rotary engine or whatever you want to call it is not at issue; it may be perfectly valid. But any diet whose quantities are best describe as "as much as I want" is not the diet of our ancestors.

Abasan
10-13-2011, 09:30 AM
Damn the cheesecake... Damn damn damn.

lbb
10-13-2011, 02:44 PM
Mary,

I never said that they always had abundant food and didn't have to work hard for it. That's silly.

Well, that's what seems to be the appeal for a lot of people who express casual interest in it (the belief that they can eat all the steaks they want), but I take your point. I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are certain assumptions that have to be fulfilled in order for any diet to be healthy, and also, that eating this way is definitely not easy or cheap. In practical terms, it is complicated to eat unprocessed foods. I'm not at all sure I buy that it's healthier than a grain-based diet -- it's very easy to cherrypick bad examples from the type of diet you're trying to discredit while putting forth only the most virtuous examples of your own. I don't think that Wonder Bread is any more an accurate representation of a grain-based diet than "all the cheeseburgers you want" is an accurate representation of a paleo diet. Does the paleo diet even allow cheese?

mattk
10-15-2011, 11:42 AM
Hi Ahmad,
As someone who has lived with psoriasis for years i was keen to try anything to help clear it up. My partner found out about a method to help the condition through diet which basically consisted of alkalising (if that is a word?) the body which entails living the macrobiotic diet which i have been on for a couple of years now. The skin is definitely better for it but the most profound difference is within myself, better sleep patterns, calmer, better digestion, more energy etc. I have to say though if you really stick to it you become a major hassle to have over for dinner! We now mainly have people over to us as handing your potential host a huge list of ingrediant no no's does wear very thin.

Abasan
10-16-2011, 08:15 PM
I'd be interested to see what's your diet like Matt...

Anyway...just to add more fuel to the fire. http://www.cracked.com/article_19433_the-6-most-horrifying-lies-food-industry-feeding-you.html

Andrea Curtis
12-10-2011, 08:02 PM
I have been diagnosed with diabetes months ago. The main reason i guess was that i was heavily eating white rice almost every meal. Now i stopped eating it and switched to brown rice. But i don't eat it regularly as before.

Janet Rosen
12-10-2011, 10:49 PM
I have been diagnosed with diabetes months ago. The main reason i guess was that i was heavily eating white rice almost every meal. Now i stopped eating it and switched to brown rice. But i don't eat it regularly as before.

Brown rice glycemic index is somewhat better than white rice but actually you'd be better off with pasta.
May I respectfully suggest you look at research on connection between animal fat and cellular resistance to insulin uptake? I had gained some weight and developed borderline blood sugars (HbA1c was 6.4. My doctor recommended I try a vegan, no concentrated sweets lifestyle involving no carb counting. I shed weight easily, eat my fill, and in under four months my HbA1c was 5.6. Spot checks of fasting and post prandial sugars show ongoing normal levels.

I understand this is not a way many people choose to live (many of the senior for whom I'm a community case management nurse are type two diabetics and not one has wanted to make major changes - and I have a strict no-nagging policy). But it certainly merits your attention and consideration.
Best of luck to you.

Abasan
12-11-2011, 09:10 AM
Hmm, we're on brown rice at home... But on whites during office hours. I typically prefer soupy noodles myself. Have no idea why pasta would be better than rice, we are talking about wheat flour here aren't we?

Janet Rosen
12-11-2011, 08:06 PM
Hmm, we're on brown rice at home... But on whites during office hours. I typically prefer soupy noodles myself. Have no idea why pasta would be better than rice, we are talking about wheat flour here aren't we?

It has to do with glycemic index: how quickly a particular food , once in your GI tract, dumps sugar into your bloodstream. Clearly, slower more sustained release is better. Complex carbs are very good. Sweet potatoes much better than regular potatoes. Easy to find plenty of online resources.

Andrea Curtis
01-11-2012, 01:50 AM
Brown rice glycemic index is somewhat better than white rice but actually you'd be better off with pasta.
May I respectfully suggest you look at research on connection between animal fat and cellular resistance to insulin uptake? I had gained some weight and developed borderline blood sugars (HbA1c was 6.4. My doctor recommended I try a vegan, no concentrated sweets lifestyle involving no carb counting. I shed weight easily, eat my fill, and in under four months my HbA1c was 5.6. Spot checks of fasting and post prandial sugars show ongoing normal levels.

I understand this is not a way many people choose to live (many of the senior for whom I'm a community case management nurse are type two diabetics and not one has wanted to make major changes - and I have a strict no-nagging policy). But it certainly merits your attention and consideration.
Best of luck to you.

Thanks for the advice janet! This sure will help me. :)