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Will Prusner
08-28-2008, 06:08 PM
Hello. I searched the language forum and didn't find anything.

Looked in the aikiweb dictionary and found "The figure 10 throw".

I just started studying japanese, and I understand that "Ju" is "10" and is represented by a cross shape (which explains the signifigance of that aspect of the naming of the technique), and that "nage" is "throw", but what is "ji"?

I looked it up in a romaji to english translator and couldn't find anything.

Any info on what "ji" is, and how it relates to the name of this technique would be a big help. Thanks.

W.

p.s. - Is the "ji" in "romaji" the same "ji"? What does it mean???

Michael Ghekiere
08-28-2008, 06:20 PM
"ji" means "character", so in this case, "juji" means "the character for 10"...

"romaji" means "roman characters"...

odudog
08-28-2008, 06:56 PM
"juji" said together also means: cross, crucifix. Here is the entire kanji for the technique 十字投げ. I too am doing research on the techniques and Japanese in general. Been struggling with the language for years now.

Will Prusner
08-28-2008, 08:49 PM
thanks! One more thing, If "Jū" is "10", how does it relate to words like judo and jujutsu? How on earth can the same word both mean a number and a concept?:confused:

raul rodrigo
08-28-2008, 09:01 PM
thanks! One more thing, If "Jū" is "10", how does it relate to words like judo and jujutsu? How on earth can the same word both mean a number and a concept?:confused:

The kanji for ju in judo is different from the ju in juji. Same sound, different meaning.

mathewjgano
08-28-2008, 09:29 PM
How on earth can the same word both mean a number and a concept?:confused:

Who ever said the number ten isn't a concept? :D

eyrie
08-28-2008, 09:41 PM
thanks! One more thing, If "Jū" is "10", how does it relate to words like judo and jujutsu? How on earth can the same word both mean a number and a concept?:confused: From Mike Braxton's post:
"juji" said together also means: cross, crucifix. Here is the entire kanji for the technique 十字 The "ju" in judo/jujitsu is 柔. It's not the same character.

juji-nage is so named for the juxtaposition of the uke's arms - i.e. like a cross. It is the same concept of jujigatame in judo/jujitsu.

CitoMaramba
08-29-2008, 05:07 AM
There are so many instances of "Same sound, different character (kanji)" that can trip up someone with little or no knowledge of Nihongo.

The "ko" in "Kobudo" is not the same "ko" in "Kodokan"

"Ai" (love) is not the same "Ai" in "Aiki".

"Hana" can mean flower.. or "nose"!

One of my memorable experiences in Tokyo was remarking to a Japanese University faculty member that I was interested in "Budo".. and he responded "Oh, you like grapes!"
"budo", written with different characters, also means "grapes".

My favorite pun comes from the Sakura Taisen game / anime series. The protagonists belong to the "Teikoku Kagekidan", which translates as "Imperial Assault Force".. but when written with different characters, also means "Imperial Opera Troupe", which is their cover story..

Don_Modesto
08-29-2008, 12:17 PM
There are so many instances of "Same sound, different character (kanji)" that can trip up someone with little or no knowledge of Nihongo.
Especially when homonyms are used consistently by Japanese to accomplish (mystical) union (sic). All the time. "AI" in aikido and love, as above, e.g. Also, as per http://www.furyu.com/onlinearticles/Iizasa.html :

"Iizasa is noted for saying "heiho wa heiho nari." It is a play on words. The first heiho can also be read hyoho; it means the military methods. The second heiho is written with the characters for peaceful methods. Thus, Iizasa was saying that the warrior arts should be arts for peace. This refers to a long-held belief among many martial arts masters, or bugeisha, that the highest level of expertise was in being able to win without fighting (arawazu ni katsu). "

Given this propensity for straight-faced punning, I wonder if "JI" has any resonance with HIJI, elbow, for Japanese as JUJI NAGE leverages the elbow. I would bet that "JU", 10/cross has such resonance with JUDO's "JU"...

Fun stuff. Thanks for the question.

Will Prusner
08-29-2008, 01:47 PM
Oh man! Thanks everybody so much! The plays on words is definitely more advanced than I am currently studying, but, no time like the present to try to start grasping some of the subtleties of the language. Thanks again!

W.

mathewjgano
08-29-2008, 04:38 PM
Oh man! Thanks everybody so much! The plays on words is definitely more advanced than I am currently studying, but, no time like the present to try to start grasping some of the subtleties of the language. Thanks again!

W.

When you have only 5 vowel sounds and what, 15 (?) consonant sounds, you tend to repeat the same phenomes a ton...it's phenominal (puns are the highest form of comedy:straightf ). Personally I love that aspect of Japanese. Give me a double or triple meaning any day! Matthews are like onions: we appreciate layers.

Walter Martindale
08-30-2008, 02:46 AM
(snip) Matthews are like onions: we appreciate layers.
You appreciate chickens that produce eggs? :D
W

Andrew S
08-31-2008, 03:24 PM
As an afterthought... some dojo call this technique tenbinnage/天秤投げ - "tenbin" referring to a balance scale.

Flintstone
09-01-2008, 03:15 AM
As an afterthought... some dojo call this technique tenbinnage/天秤投げ - "tenbin" referring to a balance scale.
Actually we call Tenbinnage to what's usually called Udekimenage in Aikikai's dojos. Jujinage's also called Karaminage.

Josh Reyer
09-01-2008, 09:20 AM
"Karami", for those that don't know, refers to "twining around, entangling".

Suru
09-01-2008, 09:57 AM
This same word - different meaning is found in English too. Consider the word 'bowl'. It could mean something you fill with soup or the game of launching a heavy ball toward pins.

Drew

Andrew S
09-01-2008, 03:25 PM
"Karami", for those that don't know, refers to "twining around, entangling".

As in the technique "jujigarami", so named because the arms are "tangled" into a cross shape.