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Tenyu
06-28-2008, 06:33 PM
The theoretical foundation of aikido and its mastery is very simple and can be taught in precision much like music theory, practicing and achieving it is a different story of course. Nage cannot violate the implicit demand nor the harmonic resonant frequency of uke(or the staff if one wishes to practice O Sensei's aikibojitsu) as the universe is governed by natural law. So in technical terms nage is bound by uke's frequency, nage has no choice in the path, timing, and energy to respond with in order to find the truly unassailable position. The relationship between uke and nage is mapped out by the following graphs where nage is the sine wave(the initial point being 0 completely neutral) and uke is the cosine wave(the intial point being 1 manifesting attack).

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8678/ukenagegrapheu5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
[/URL]

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/6696/ukenagegraph2mz8.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=247&i=ukenagegrapheu5.jpg)
[URL=http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=165&i=ukenagegraph2mz8.jpg]

If nage is absolutely non-resistant(yet grounded) then nage will always lead uke with a 90 degree phase shift in time, where uke has no potential for kaeshiwaza and nage has the option of presenting uke with a throw at 90, 270, 450, 630 degrees, and so on which can all be a terminal point in nage's expression of peak intensity during that particular cycle. Essentially uke has to deal with infinity then if nage chooses the exponential over linear path. In practice, uke doesn't have to worry too much about it because gravity will eventually bring uke down from the throw, however far that may be, and flying through the air is a much better alternative than having to run into nage's fist. My sensei tells me during his prime his staff would literally break in half from striking hyperbolically to nothing more than an asympototic plane in the air. Mastering aikido requires an understanding of the universe. Hikitsuchi Sensei said if your heart is not correct your technique cannot be correct, if you do not practice masakatsu agatsu then you will either consciously or unconsciously impose your personal desires hence resistance into the pre-determined preformal role of nage. Modern society teaches us freedom lies in having choices, while aikido teaches us freedom lies in understanding the universe already made the choices for us while giving us the ability to manifest them totally non-resistively and beautifully. It's no surprise the martial aspect is such a small subset of aikido, it's religion by definition.

Regards,
Tenyu "the aikido geek" Hamaki

mwible
06-30-2008, 03:22 PM
Very very interesting. I will most certainly think on this. I enjoyed the relation to triganomotry and sine and cosine graphs, it helps those of us who remember things in pictures. I'm not sure if i could ever completely be un-resistant, but i will try in my training and see how that works. Domo Arigato.

in aiki,
morgan

bkedelen
06-30-2008, 04:56 PM
Nage cannot violate the implicit demand nor the harmonic resonant frequency of uke(or the staff if one wishes to practice O Sensei's aikibojitsu) as the universe is governed by natural law. So in technical terms nage is bound by uke's frequency, nage has no choice in the path, timing, and energy to respond with in order to find the truly unassailable position.

This is not my understanding of Aikido at all. My understanding is that there are a (small) variety of ways that nage can indeed halt uke's harmonic resonance frequency, as you put it, and either leave uke zeroe'd out or "force" uke to adapt to nage's wave. A great example of this is Ushiro Sensei's zero power demonstration, where he halts powerful attacker's in midstep through subtle adjustments to himself.

rob_liberti
07-01-2008, 05:46 AM
I'm with Benjamin on this.

I would say that this description is some fantasy ultimate expression of how to blend with uke assuming neither of you have any well trained internal power. When I attack someone who completely dominates me with their internally powered aiki, my structure falls apart and I wouldn't say that this fits your graph.

Rob

Upyu
07-01-2008, 05:53 AM
<snip> Mastering aikido requires an understanding of the universe. Hikitsuchi Sensei said if your heart is not correct your technique cannot be correct, if you do not practice masakatsu agatsu then you will either consciously or unconsciously impose your personal desires hence resistance into the pre-determined preformal role of nage. <snip> It's no surprise the martial aspect is such a small subset of aikido, it's religion by definition.


Wow...just...wow

Leaves me breathless in awe.

Where's Triumph when you need him.

Amir Krause
07-01-2008, 07:24 AM
Sorry, but if you wish to place some graphs and claim to have posted some mathematical\physical theory. Then in my mind, you have failed:
A. I do not see the connection between your graphs and well defined physical quantities in te real world. I have yet to hear of contraction and deconstruction of energy.
B. Sine and Cosine to no go to infinity.
C. Energy is always finite in the physical model of the world as we know it (Newton's laws are the relevant ones in Aikido case).

If there is one thing I dislike, it is the misusage of mathematical and physical terms for other purposes. Especially since most Aikido techniques can be rather well described using "real physical terms" from the world of "actual bodies physics" (only know the name in Hebrew, but one example would be angular momentum conservation), and biomechanics. Few things may also use reasons stemming from psychology\behavior under duress.

If you wish to use the western analysis then I see no need to invent new terms. Otherwise, lets stick to the eastern description way using Ki and metaphors. Lets not invent a third mixture way, it rarely explains anything.

Amir

Peter Goldsbury
07-01-2008, 07:55 AM
Wow...just...wow

Leaves me breathless in awe.

Where's Triumph when you need him.

Hello Robert,

Who is Triumph? Is it another name for Masakatsu agatsu? The meaning would seem to fit.

Best,

PAG

Timothy WK
07-01-2008, 08:06 AM
Who is Triumph?

I assume he means Triumph the Insult Comic Dog (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3261002880075387210&q=triumph+star+wars&ei=VTlqSJzbB4ac4gLopbEM).

lbb
07-01-2008, 08:33 AM
Looks like a sine and a cosine to me.

Upyu
07-01-2008, 09:05 AM
Hello Robert,

Who is Triumph? Is it another name for Masakatsu agatsu? The meaning would seem to fit.

Best,

PAG

Ahh... um..
すいません、アメリカンジョークです ^^;
It's a character on Conan O Brian's show :D

Patrick Hutchinson
07-01-2008, 09:26 AM
Oh Lord, don't ever let that dog near an aikido class!

Keith Larman
07-01-2008, 09:37 AM
My sensei tells me during his prime his staff would literally break in half from striking hyperbolically to nothing more than an asympototic plane in the air.

Or he might just want to use some better wood for his jo...

With respect to the rest of the post... Wow... Just wow...

DH
07-01-2008, 09:45 AM
Well, not ot counter the jodo teacher but there are lots of sticks, and stick like objects around, to bash the wrists and heads of those wanting to do you harm. I don't really see them having to be wielding a sword to deflect, break, or bend as being an issue.;)

Kent Enfield
07-01-2008, 09:26 PM
Where's Triumph when you need him.
And here I was thinking of Oswald Bates (http://www.youtube.com/v/O7dPprbzNSc&hl=en).

John Thomas Read
02-09-2011, 04:02 PM
The theoretical foundation of aikido and its mastery is very simple and can be taught in precision much like music theory, practicing and achieving it is a different story of course. Nage cannot violate the implicit demand nor the harmonic resonant frequency of uke(or the staff if one wishes to practice O Sensei's aikibojitsu) as the universe is governed by natural law. So in technical terms nage is bound by uke's frequency, nage has no choice in the path, timing, and energy to respond with in order to find the truly unassailable position. The relationship between uke and nage is mapped out by the following graphs where nage is the sine wave(the initial point being 0 completely neutral) and uke is the cosine wave(the intial point being 1 manifesting attack).

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8678/ukenagegrapheu5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
[/URL]

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/6696/ukenagegraph2mz8.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=247&i=ukenagegrapheu5.jpg)
[URL=http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=165&i=ukenagegraph2mz8.jpg]

If nage is absolutely non-resistant(yet grounded) then nage will always lead uke with a 90 degree phase shift in time, where uke has no potential for kaeshiwaza and nage has the option of presenting uke with a throw at 90, 270, 450, 630 degrees, and so on which can all be a terminal point in nage's expression of peak intensity during that particular cycle. Essentially uke has to deal with infinity then if nage chooses the exponential over linear path. In practice, uke doesn't have to worry too much about it because gravity will eventually bring uke down from the throw, however far that may be, and flying through the air is a much better alternative than having to run into nage's fist. My sensei tells me during his prime his staff would literally break in half from striking hyperbolically to nothing more than an asympototic plane in the air. Mastering aikido requires an understanding of the universe. Hikitsuchi Sensei said if your heart is not correct your technique cannot be correct, if you do not practice masakatsu agatsu then you will either consciously or unconsciously impose your personal desires hence resistance into the pre-determined preformal role of nage. Modern society teaches us freedom lies in having choices, while aikido teaches us freedom lies in understanding the universe already made the choices for us while giving us the ability to manifest them totally non-resistively and beautifully. It's no surprise the martial aspect is such a small subset of aikido, it's religion by definition.

Regards,
Tenyu "the aikido geek" Hamaki

Tenyu Hamaki is using diagrams that I created as part of my Aikibojitsu art form. These are direct copies from my own hand, and Tenyu Hamaki is using them without my permission. In fact, he didn't even ask. Everything he is doing is fradulent.

- Tom Read, founder of Aikibojitsu