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dalen7
05-21-2008, 07:09 AM
Sorry if this is well known...did a search and didnt see it.

But at the beginning of class, when everyone is in sieza and they bow to O'Sensei, they mumble something (like a low chant) and stop.
Its real quick.

What are they saying?
(Translation would be nice, but I believe I will need to know & learn to say this in Japanese for my next test. I will also need to learn to count to 10 in Japanese, as well as say some basic Japanese words as well...which the latter I have on paper to learn from, and the former - numbers- I should be able to find on the internet.) :)

No one has told me what it is, or rather how to say the chant...and the low mumble I cant make out heads or tails what they are saying in Japanese...I would ask, but my Hungarian isnt much better. ;)

I know it may sound strange, but the instructor doesnt necessarily go over the requirements for the test...in fact i got a requirement sheet off of another student...of which does not have the japanese text/chant for me, anyway...)

Peace

dAlen

chuunen baka
05-21-2008, 07:36 AM
Presumably it is just shomen ni rei (正面に礼) "bow towards the front".

dalen7
05-21-2008, 08:02 AM
Presumably it is just shomen ni rei (正面に礼) "bow towards the front".

Thank you, I appreciate the response... they go a little bit longer though, maybe some extra courtesy being said to O'Sensei, I dont know... (Its the whole class chanting, except lower kyu)

...anyway, thanks again -

Peace

dAlen

Janet Rosen
05-21-2008, 08:35 AM
Um, why don't you ask somebody in class?

maynard
05-21-2008, 09:43 AM
We most often say "Oneigashamas" which sometimes sounds like "Oh my gosh a mouse?!", but as is apparent already, different dojos have different customs. Perhaps this is a splendid opportunity for you to work on your Hungarian and your Japanese? Good luck, let us know what you find out.

dalen7
05-21-2008, 12:34 PM
Um, why don't you ask somebody in class?

I like asking you guys. ;)
See the post above mine and you will understand why. :)

(Im sure I will finally get it figured out...even if I dont get a translation for it...) :)

Peace

dAlen

dalen7
05-21-2008, 12:38 PM
Perhaps this is a splendid opportunity for you to work on your Hungarian and your Japanese? Good luck, let us know what you find out.

Ill eventually find out...perhaps if I can get pen and paper and ask someone before class, that would be best - however, that is going to be a hoot to get them to even understand what it is Im trying to ask.

Its a lot easier for me to ask whenever the event Im wanting to talk about is happening... at least in this stage of the game with my language skills...
Obviously when we are in sieza it is not one of those moments. ;)

Some people get me right away,(my Hungarian) others do not.
Those with an open mind understand a lot faster what Im trying to say...those who are not open minded, do not.

Again, what I mean is this...Hungarian has 14 vowels...you have to say precisely right (quite difficult) and those who have creativity can understand me (despite how 'butchered' the language is... and those who go into the conversation believing they will have difficulty...well they do.

This is how I have experienced it...hard to describe until you experience it yourself. ;)

Peace

dAlen

p.s.
Also, if this is to be a part of the test, I was kind of hoping I would be given a paper that had the words on it. ;)
But then again, I was never given the testing requirements either - I saw a senior student with them and got a copy from him. :)

So I do get around...and this board is one means in how I have gotten around in Aikido. ;)

note: I suppose part of this post was an extended entry to the above I made to Janet to help answer her question. ;)

mathewjgano
05-21-2008, 02:52 PM
Thank you, I appreciate the response... they go a little bit longer though, maybe some extra courtesy being said to O'Sensei, I dont know... (Its the whole class chanting, except lower kyu)

...anyway, thanks again -

Peace

dAlen

"dozo yoroshiku onegaishimasu" is a longer way of saying the one John offered.
[dozo yoroshku owe-nei-guy-she-mas]

jennifer paige smith
05-21-2008, 05:21 PM
hay, maybe you should just chant some random thing cuz no one understands you. Man, what freedom.....

smiles

Demetrio Cereijo
05-21-2008, 05:34 PM
Dalen,

How, after about a year in Hungary practising aikido, have you managed to be unable to communicate with training partners and instructor?.

I don't get it, really.

dalen7
05-21-2008, 10:55 PM
Dalen,

How, after about a year in Hungary practising aikido, have you managed to be unable to communicate with training partners and instructor?.

I don't get it, really.

To each their own...our paths are all unique - so you wont be able to get it. ;)

The question is about the prayer...not my Hungarian language skills.
:)

But if you want to be even more surprised - I have lived in Hungary 3 years - and married to a Hungarian for 12. ;)

Again, our paths are unique and our own...dont be quick to judge. ;)

Peace

dAlen

dalen7
05-21-2008, 11:00 PM
"dozo yoroshiku onegaishimasu" is a longer way of saying the one John offered.
[dozo yoroshku owe-nei-guy-she-mas]

Bingo...dude, you have it - and I appreciate it.
Im almost 100% positive that is it.

Again, thanks...

As I said, this place has helped me out a lot in my Aikido training...Im glad its here. :)

Time and place for everything. All things work out the way they were meant to. ;)
- This is more in reference to those who felt I 'should have' gotten the answer elsewhere...or 'should have' learned more Hungarian... ;) The point as brought out before, is we dont understand why one persons path is different than ours...the responsibility we have is to enjoy the company along the way - well if we want, its there, why not take the opportunity. :)

Peace

dAlen

Dieter Haffner
05-21-2008, 11:49 PM
Dalen,
May I make a suggestion for if you need to know something from your class mates.
You can ask your wife to write it down in Hungarian and bring that piece of paper to class.
I believe it would have worked for this particular case.

dalen7
05-21-2008, 11:58 PM
Dalen,
May I make a suggestion for if you need to know something from your class mates.
You can ask your wife to write it down in Hungarian and bring that piece of paper to class.
I believe it would have worked for this particular case.

I appreciate everyones concern and desire to help in how I should communicate at my dojo. ;)

However...

Trust me, I am doing what needs to be done in the time it needs to be done. :)

The point is Im here at the moment- at Aikiweb - communicating with my fellow aikido practitioners about Aikido. ;)

As I ask questions people may or may not want to help answer them. :)

So far I have had excellent responses to all my questions - and not only that, this place mixed with internet research and my aikido 3D program have helped me to advance in Aikido.

Trust me, its more than just getting a piece of paper to take with me to my aikido class - there is a whole dynamic at work here. ;)

I would say, enough chat about my Hungarian language skills or how for me to better communicate at my dojo - thats not really the question at hand, and its something Im working on...so perhaps we can continue with the topic at hand. ;)

Of course people are free to post what they will, its just a suggestion. :)

Peace

dAlen

p.s. - or I can open up a thread on the dynamics of 'dAlen' learning Aikido in Hungary. :)

p.s.s. - for clarification, this was NOT meant to pick on you Dieter, or anyone else.
I appreciate all your comments - Just trying to keep them to topic, as when it comes to how someone 'should' do something (even if it is a good suggestion), everyone has an idea - without knowing the dynamics, or rather without having walked in the other persons shoes. (And each person is different no matter how similar the path. ;)

dalen7
05-22-2008, 12:18 AM
Dalen,
May I make a suggestion for if you need to know something from your class mates.
You can ask your wife to write it down in Hungarian and bring that piece of paper to class.
I believe it would have worked for this particular case.

I will say this in hopes to add clarity to this thread:

Dieter your point is well taken, and I hope my above post wasn't offensive...it was not meant to be, I know you were trying to help. :)

As I believe I have mentioned earlier in this thread, its the simple case that I thought they would have already told/taught me this after a year of being there.

Again, I would assume that someone would give me a list of requirements for testing, etc.

As mentioned, no one did and I saw a senior student with the testing requirements and asked him for a copy.

These testing requirements did not have all the info on it...
i.e, the Japanese I need to know for my test...it just says I need to know it. (Some Japanese is there, but other bits appear to be missing.)

One would have thought that it would be organized such, that all the information would be given, at some point.

But remember, I am just now learning how to do Udekimenage - which is a requirement for my 5th kyu test - after a year of being there.

Point is, there is a lack of structure which is conducive for advancing in Aikido there...thats without the issue of language.

Add the language in there and you have a whole new dynamic.

My point is not to discuss my dojo though.

I would have eventually found out - I figured I could just come to Aiki web as well, and just throw out the question and see if I could get an answer...

...and some people did try to answer, and one - I believe - hit the nail on the head. Again, thanks for that.

So that really is the point. Yes I would have gotten the answer, but the point was I directed my question to those here at Aiki web...for the time. ;)

Again, thanks -

Peace

dAlen

dalen7
05-22-2008, 12:29 AM
hay, maybe you should just chant some random thing cuz no one understands you. Man, what freedom.....

smiles

Ah, some lightness to the thread. :)
I agree. ;)

good spiritual lesson in there to - the bit about no one understands 'you' - or the 'stories' I make about myself. i.e., identifying with ego.

Again, nice one, reminds me of Eckhart Tolle. (Not sure if that was the angle you were coming from.)

But it is easy to get caught up in 'stories', so to speak. (or identify with ego.) :)

Peace

dAlen

Bronson
05-22-2008, 01:19 AM
Again, I would assume that someone would give me a list of requirements for testing, etc.


Why on Earth would you assume that? Perhaps your instructor is assuming you'll find a way to ask for the info.

As mentioned, no one did and I saw a senior student with the testing requirements and asked him for a copy. As he probably asked for his copy.

These testing requirements did not have all the info on it...i.e, the Japanese I need to know for my test...it just says I need to know it. (Some Japanese is there, but other bits appear to be missing.)

The perfect opportunity to ask.

One would have thought that it would be organized such, that all the information would be given, at some point. In our dojo test infomation is freely available but rarely is it given. The student usually has to ask to see it and can then make a hand written copy of the material.

Bronson

dalen7
05-22-2008, 01:55 AM
Why on Earth would you assume that? Perhaps your instructor is assuming you'll find a way to ask for the info.

Bronson

Shows the diverse way in which we as humans think and perceive. :)
Its the beauty of life.

Your right, and hes right...and Im right to.
- I sound like Tevy from fiddler on the roof! :D
To which your reply would be, "they cant all be right" and I say, "your right" :D

All joking aside, the above points to the truth.

For me, if I were to have a dojo, I would make plain what it is that is expected of my students.

I know a former boss of mine, when I was a missionary for a Christian organization, said something like: "when I first got my job I made sure I had a job description of exactly what it is I would be doing...not everyone is like that and needs an exact description...but I do".

Point is, we are different, and have different expectations. ;)

The logic is that if you will have a test, its in the interest of those giving the test to let you know what it is you will be tested on. ;)

One could argue that they are "teaching all that needs to be known" so you dont need a requirment sheet.

Of which I would say, yes, in theory...again, walk in my shoes a mile grasshopper. ;)
If your only receiving instruction in some of the moves weeks before the test, this is counter productive I would think. ;)

Again, to each their own...I merely state it from the view point I have, and respect the one you have.

Sincerely, Reb Tevy err, I mean, dAlen. ;)

Peace

dAlen

p.s.
Sorry to those of you who havent watched Fiddler on the Roof, but the reference from the movie still comes through and is relevant I believe. :)

p.s.s. - the true irony is that this thread was merely asking a question about a japanese sentence...to which, I believe, I now have the answer. - but I suppose its fine for this to turn into a philosophy thread of why dAlen thinks this and that, or does or doesnt do this or that. j/k ;)

dalen7
05-22-2008, 02:23 AM
Clarification on the issue of language.

I have seen this pop up time and again - here and different places.

First I will start by the fact that Hungarian is not my native language.
Most of you Im sure know that by now - from some post it doesnt seem that clear. (Typically the post from the U.S. - but its understandable, people stateside havent really experienced another culture.)

As to the Europeans here...my hats off to you guys.
Its in your blood to speak 5 languages it seems (especially if your Dutch) ;)

Yes my go at Hungarian has been perhaps slow...but this is not the thread, necessarily, in why that is the case...there are a lot of dynamics to this to say the least.

What I do want to point out is this.

In Hungary, especially in the country side, peoples take on things are a bit different. (Well, this goes throughout the world.)

But here is where Im going with this.

When someone is open, communication happens - regardless of the language. (Trust me, I have experienced this as well)
But it takes a certain determination and willingness to do this.

What I have experienced is that typically I will go the extra mile and expressing myself, and people, who are open will get it.

Those closed will not understand me...
Quite literally. I have said totally improper Hungarian sentences and been understood by those eager and happy that Im trying.

By those who are intimidated that they cant communicate, even the sentences that i say, which are correct, are lost. (Explanation into this...and its at several layers, but I wont go into these dynamics now.)

When someone talks to me, as an example, in Hungarian.
If I dont understand a word...they give up. They dont try to find a substitute word or way in which to try to express themselves.

On the other hand I will use hand signs, grunts, etc. to get a point across - and those open, will get it. ;)

So when someone (wink wink) says that maybe my Sensei was waiting for me to ask for the testing requirements...I humbly suggest that the dynamics of my situation here in Hungary are a lot deeper.

And again, as mentioned, I do get what I need - as you have seen. I was merely making an observation of how I would of approached it. ;)

As for this thread, in which I asked a simple question about a japanese sentence - again, I believe this has been successfully answered now - we have ended up covering topics on totally different subject lines. ;)

I guess for the most part - at least this post Im making now - the topic is still good for the forum group it is in...'Language'.
Even though this line of discussion about language was not the initial intent of the post, as mentioned already. ;)

none-the-less, this may bring more insight, and cultural view point to those stateside and elsewhere.

Because - though our paths may seem the same, each path is unique...and its beautiful...because its yours. ;)
This is very true. :)

Peace

dAlen

p.s.
Consider this.
Its hard enough to communicate in a written language you understand... intent, emotion, tone, etc.
Let alone fully communicate in one that is not native.

The only true communication, as pointed out in the example above, is when people begin to feel.
i.e., bravely go in with the intent of understanding. As I mentioned, amazingly communication happens at this level, despite the level of ones language ability. ;)

Demetrio Cereijo
05-22-2008, 04:43 AM
Again, our paths are unique and our own...dont be quick to judge. ;)

I wasn't judging, only asking. However, after your recent posts, I'm starting to.

Regards.

Dieter Haffner
05-22-2008, 05:08 AM
p.s.s. - for clarification, this was NOT meant to pick on you Dieter, or anyone else.
I appreciate all your comments - Just trying to keep them to topic, as when it comes to how someone 'should' do something (even if it is a good suggestion), everyone has an idea - without knowing the dynamics, or rather without having walked in the other persons shoes. (And each person is different no matter how similar the path. ;)No hard feelings Dalen.
I have my reasons why I did not response on topic, but I am not going to post them here. Your question has been answered and this thread can end.
If I can get my thoughts together, I will send you a PM.

Peter Goldsbury
05-22-2008, 05:17 AM
Hello dAlen,

This is what I do in my dojo here in Hiroshima. All the students are Japanese except one.

The students line up kneeling in seiza and I kneel facing them with my back to the Shomen (where O Sensei's picture is).

When everyone is ready, I turn to face the Shoumen and say, "Shoumen ni rei." (Bow to the Shoumen) and bow. (I do not clap beforehand.) Then I turn to the students and say "O-tagai-ni, rei." (Bow to each other: teacher to students and students to teacher). We we bow this time, we say "Onegai-shimasu" (I sometimes use the more honorific Onegai itashimasu.) That's it.

We do exactly the same at the end of training. Of course, it is not really a prayer.

I should add that when I hold a grading test, I do not have my back to the Shoumen, so the sequence of bowing is a little different. If you want me to explain it, I can do so. Otherwise send me a PM.

Best wishes,

nagoyajoe
05-22-2008, 05:58 AM
Dalen,

How, after about a year in Hungary practising aikido, have you managed to be unable to communicate with training partners and instructor?.

I don't get it, really.

PatÚtico y grosero. ┐No tiene cualquier cosa mejor decir?:confused:

Demetrio Cereijo
05-22-2008, 06:11 AM
PatÚtico y grosero. ┐No tiene cualquier cosa mejor decir?:confused:
:rolleyes:

Yes. Your Spanish languaje skills still need some work. Anyway, at least you tried. Thanks for the effort.

Regards.

dalen7
05-22-2008, 08:04 AM
I want to thank Alastair, John, Dieter, Matthew, & Peter for trying to help. Also want to thank Jennifer for the sense of humor she brought to the thread with her comment. :)

Wont know for sure until tomorrow, but I believe Matthews version of:
dozo yoroshiku onegaishimasu, is what we say. Something rings a bell. :)

Also, it was nice of Peter to relay how they customarily start the beginning of class in their dojo. The bit which the Sensei says was of interest to - wasnt even thinking about that part of it at the time.

So thanks to everyone - I consider this thread to have run its course. ;)

Peace

dAlen

Bill Danosky
05-22-2008, 08:43 AM
I apologize for butchering the romanized Japanese here:

At the end of our classes, we bow out like Goldsbury Sensei mentioned. Then we shiko dachi down the line of students, each senior student facing and thanking the junior and both bow, saying, "Domo arigato. Gozaya machita." Which means something like, "Thank you for what I have just received."

dalen7
05-22-2008, 09:01 AM
I apologize for butchering the romanized Japanese here:

At the end of our classes, we bow out like Goldsbury Sensei mentioned. Then we shiko dachi down the line of students, each senior student facing and thanking the junior and both bow, saying, "Domo arigato. Gozaya machita." Which means something like, "Thank you for what I have just received."

Something about that rings a bell as well - though we dont do the custom that you described. Perhaps I have heard one of the senior students say it before switching partners, or rather after training with a partner. (In fact Im almost sure of this...one guy in particular I believe says this after each person he trains with.)

Thanks, this really helps, I appreciate it.

Peace

dAlen

p.s.
When a senior student says this to you after training is there a particular response?
The lower students typically bow...some say "thank you", in Hungarian, - yet in my 5th kyu test we are to learn thank you in Japanese. - So Im assuming I would say arigato gozaj masz...that should be thank you if I got it right. - peace

Bill Danosky
05-22-2008, 02:05 PM
Ask Professor Goldsbury, but "Domo Arigato" is "Thank you very much."

Someone told me long ago that "Osu" is Japanese for "Hell Yeah!":)

mathewjgano
05-22-2008, 03:07 PM
Someone told me long ago that "Osu" is Japanese for "Hell Yeah!":)

If that's the case, that's fricken awesome! I have a whole new mental image forming of the Yoshinkan. I always just assumed it was a simple honorific term.

Bill Danosky
05-22-2008, 04:49 PM
If that's the case, that's fricken awesome! I have a whole new mental image forming of the Yoshinkan. I always just assumed it was a simple honorific term.

Yoshinkan is considered to be a very "hard" style of Aikido. Some Aikidoka think we're masochists, but we're proud of our bruises as long as we earn them.

dalen7
05-23-2008, 02:26 AM
Ask Professor Goldsbury, but "Domo Arigato" is "Thank you very much."

Someone told me long ago that "Osu" is Japanese for "Hell Yeah!":)

Yes, it looks like I will need some translation.
The one bit of Japanese they have on my testing requirements says:
Koszonom (accent marks missing, but means thank you in Hungarian) is equivalent to arigato gozaj masz.

Definitely not something they will be able to explain, so I think your right - time to ask someone who knows japanese better. (Like Professor Goldsbury) :)

Peace

dAlen

chuunen baka
05-23-2008, 02:54 AM
Someone told me long ago that "Osu" is Japanese for "Hell Yeah!":)
Sort of. The terse dictionary meaning is (押忍) "greeting used between close male friends; Hi!; yes sir!; yo!" but it's a lot more complicated than that. There's a really good article here: http://www.24fightingchickens.com/2005/08/29/appropriate-usage-of-osu/

Peter Goldsbury
05-23-2008, 03:16 AM
Yes, it looks like I will need some translation.
The one bit of Japanese they have on my testing requirements says:
Koszonom (accent marks missing, but means thank you in Hungarian) is equivalent to arigato gozaj masz.

Definitely not something they will be able to explain, so I think your right - time to ask someone who knows japanese better. (Like Professor Goldsbury) :)

Peace

dAlen

Hello dAlen,

You sent me a PM, but I will answer your question here.

Since you asked about the beginning of class, I dod not bother so much about the end, but, of course, it is customary to thank one's partner after training--after each waza, or after the class as a whole.

The basic pattern is Arigatou gozaimashita ありがとうございました, or, if you like some kanji as well: 有り難うございました. This means 'thanks for what has (just) happened' = thank you for training in the last waza / in the class that has just finished.

The addition of doumo どうも adds a certain intensity, as in doumo arigatou gozaimashita and this is what we all say to each other after training in my own dojo. Of course, it comes naturally to my students, who are native Japanese and say it millions of times in their lives--always correctly.

However, Japan has a strictly hierarchical society (especially in budo circles) and there are various subtle nuances to such a basic form of utterance as giving thanks for favours received. So, it would be considered somewhat impolite for a junior to say doumo arigatou to a senior, but it would not be impolite the other way round. A junior can say to a senior either arigatou gozaimashita, or doumo arigatou gozaimashita, but a senior can add the third alternative, which is doumo arigatou. (Doumo or doumo doumo has a different meaning in Japanese.)

Finally, gozaimashita is the past tense of a verb. The present tense is gozaimasu. What is the difference in usage? Well, if you take a train here in Japan, the train conductor will usually thank you for travelling on the train. He / she will say, (makoto ni) arigatou gozaimasu. That is, the journey is just beginning. Just before you get off, the conductor will thank you for having travelled on the train and will say, (makoto ni) arigatou gozaimashita. That is, the journey has almost finished and will shortly become past.

You can safely ignore makoto ni, by the way. It means something like 'sincerely' in English and it would be odd to use it in the dojo.

PAG

Peter Goldsbury
05-23-2008, 03:39 AM
One thing I should add to my last post.

I have given you the usage as it exists in my own dojo here in Hiroshima and so I am certain that it is correct Japanese.

In some dojos and organizations outside Japan, I cannot be so certain. So, it is true that arigatou gozaimasu means thank you, but it is also true that arigatou gozaimashita also means thank you. If your Hungarian instructor has not learned much Japanese and does not know that there are two forms, he might correct you.

There is a tendency outside Japan to be more Roman than the Pope and sometimes the terms sempai and kohai are used quite differently from how they would be used in Japan.

Personally, I would never fail a student for not being able to count, or not being able to remember the names of the waza. My Japanese students, also, have enormous difficulty in remembering the names (in Japanese!!) and they live and breathe the language all the time. If you were taking a test in my dojo and did not remember the name, we would switch to English and/or get up and show you. It is what you did next that would matter.

However, there is also a saying in Japan: 郷に入れば郷に従え: gou ni ireba gou ni shitagae. If you live in a village, obey the (customs of) the village. Or, when in Rome...

PAG

dalen7
05-23-2008, 03:48 AM
A junior can say to a senior either arigatou gozaimashita, or doumo arigatou gozaimashita, but a senior can add the third alternative, which is doumo arigatou. (Doumo or doumo doumo has a different meaning in Japanese.)

Peter, Thank you so much... - I believe I finally got it! :)

Whats funny is now I also see what was going on with the terms they listed. They wrote the japanese in the form in the way it would be pronounced in Hungarian (through me off at first, I didnt realize it was written phonetically in Hungarian. i.e., arigato gozaj masz.)

But after reading your detailed post, it cleared that bit up to.

Again, many thanks for the detailed explanation.

Peace

dAlen


However, there is also a saying in Japan: 郷に入れば郷に従え: gou ni ireba gou ni shitagae. If you live in a village, obey the (customs of) the village. Or, when in Rome...

PAG

Very true indeed. ;)
Thanks again. :)

dalen7
05-23-2008, 07:19 AM
We we bow this time, we say "Onegai-shimasu" (I sometimes use the more honorific Onegai itashimasu.) That's it.

What does Onegai-shimasu mean? (Forgive me if I somehow have overlooked it, but I went back through the thread and didnt see the meaning.)

As well, there was another version of this offered which was:
Dozo yoroshiku onegai-shimasu. I am curious to know what this means as well.

Just a couple more hours until training and Ill be listening to see what it is we say. ;)

Thank you -

Peace

dAlen

Peter Goldsbury
05-23-2008, 08:15 AM
What does Onegai-shimasu mean? (Forgive me if I somehow have overlooked it, but I went back through the thread and didnt see the meaning.)

As well, there was another version of this offered which was:
Dozo yoroshiku onegai-shimasu. I am curious to know what this means as well.

Just a couple more hours until training and Ill be listening to see what it is we say. ;)

Thank you -

Peace

dAlen

Hello dAlen,

The most appropriate translation for onegai-shimasu in a dojo would be something like, 'Let us help each other in the best way of which we are capable, according to our respective knowledge and capabilities.' So, if you, as a would-be 5th kyuu, happen to train with an 8th dan, the greeting would apply to both of you.

Dozo yoroshiku onegai shimasu is way, way over the top in a typical dojo. It might be okay for Doshu at Kagami-biraki, but not for anyone in a typical dojo during daily training. So, if I am reelected as IAF Chairman, I would probably go to Doshu and say to him, Korekara mo douzo yoroshiku onegai shimasu, which would mean something like, From now (from my election), let us help each other (in our respective spheres) over the next few years. But I would say this to Doshu only because I am a prominent member of a large federation closely related to the Aikikai. It would make no sense to say this before practising each waza in a typical dojo.

In Japan we exchange nenga-jo, or New Year greeting cards. Sometimes lazier students of mine who are trying to ensure that they will receive a passing grade send me nengajo with the full greeting. which means something like, 'Please continue to take a favorable view of my situation, especially in the examination period, when it is time to give, or withhold, credits for your course.' I am usually unmoved by such requests.

Best wishes,

dalen7
05-23-2008, 08:50 AM
Thanks again Peter for your time & answer(s).

Nice to be able to begin to see the bigger picture. :)

Peace

dAlen

dalen7
05-23-2008, 01:03 PM
So I showed my requirement sheet - which has many scribbles on it now on the 5th kyu page - and pointed to two options of how to say the beginning 'chant' when we bow.

Well, after asking our 2nd kyu (soon to be 1st), it appeared that both were o.k...which didnt make sense.(You dont do the chant randomly do you?) So I showed our 1st kyu (soon to be shodan) and he said the latter.

And sure enough, my ears were wide open and I listened extremely carefully and the latter won!

Oh, the winner phrase was: Onegaishimasu. :)
Dont know why I thought it sounded longer before.
Perhaps because no one is in unison and it really is a mumble...like listening to a low rumble of thunder. :D

I want to say I thank everyone for participating in the thread - Peter I appreciate your detailed explanation - because we are not consistent in how we do things, so knowing what the traditional method of doing/saying things are is quite nice. :)

With that, I suppose this thread comes to an end - of course it can keep going, but the answer has fully come around along with some nice information to make the whole picture fuller. :)

Peace

dAlen

Lloyd Heggestad
05-23-2008, 11:37 PM
This was interesting reading. I'm sorry to see it end. One glimpses the personalities and characters of the posters in their words here.

Personally, I have difficulty understanding my 15-year-old son's speech. As Dalen intimated, it requires effort to connect mentally.

In the dojo I attend we use the Japanese phrase, but we are not tested on it. More out of respect for tradition, I think. Most of us say it by rote, rather than because we have any clue as to what we are saying. No doubt we butcher it beyond recognition. But we are connecting mentally despite our poor enunciation, so it's all good.

YoshinkanStudent
09-02-2013, 04:14 PM
Sorry if this is well known...did a search and didnt see it.

But at the beginning of class, when everyone is in sieza and they bow to O'Sensei, they mumble something (like a low chant) and stop.
Its real quick.

What are they saying?
(Translation would be nice, but I believe I will need to know & learn to say this in Japanese for my next test. I will also need to learn to count to 10 in Japanese, as well as say some basic Japanese words as well...which the latter I have on paper to learn from, and the former - numbers- I should be able to find on the internet.) :)

No one has told me what it is, or rather how to say the chant...and the low mumble I cant make out heads or tails what they are saying in Japanese...I would ask, but my Hungarian isnt much better. ;)

I know it may sound strange, but the instructor doesnt necessarily go over the requirements for the test...in fact i got a requirement sheet off of another student...of which does not have the japanese text/chant for me, anyway...)

Peace

dAlen
Hi I was in a similar position to you. But I asked my sensei and in yoshinkan we say Yoroshiku onegaishimasu (that's the Romani) it means 'please treat me well'
Basically but you know the Japanese that will have different meaning depending on context. Google translate thinks it means thank you but that's arigato gozaimasu
Oh and OSU! (Oos) basically means 'yeah'. Or it's Japan's way of replying to a senior, like in the army you say sir!

Help you do well in aikido, same with every one else!
I'm going for black belt in October.
OSU!