new slant on an old technique?

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[dalen7]

O.k. - Maybe I can get some clarification on this.

Ai Hanmi Katate Tori - Ikkyo.
Used to this was straight forward.
(Think of the Aikido 3D demo of it...or just how you usually do it.)

Past 2 lessons we have done something different and Im not sure how it is 'categorized.'

Its still Ai Hanmi katate Tori - Ikkyo (along with other throwing & pinning techniques), but this time you move the arm (that is being held) in center and in front...and you make a circular movement.

Think of someone grabbing your arm and then doing a 'karate kid' 'wax on/wax off' movement. (Circular)

From this circular movement the person would then move in front of you and you could do irimi nage, etc.

Again, hard to explain, its basically the same way, but a whole different way of executing it, and I wasnt able to catch any name for this technique beside what is already listed above.

Peace

dAlen

[dalen7]

I thought about how to explain it clearer.

Normally you do omote & ura with Ai Hanmi, katate tori, Ikkyo, Irimi Nage, etc.

Instead of omote & ura, you do the 'wax on' karate kid type move - and you move uke off balance to where he literally crosses in front of where you are (pretend you stay still to imagine this clearly and see uke go from right side to left side in front of you) and then you lift your arm up in center, and higher if irimi nage, etc.

Anyway, does this have a name for this technique...first time I have seen this...well past two lessons, since I have studied...which has been since last May.

Peace

dAlen

[Nick P.]

<assuming uke is grabbing nage's right hand with their right hand>

Where I train, we wouldnt call it anything differently. its just a subtle variation. Maybe you could call it soto ("outside") Ikkyo if your waxing was clockwise.

<assuming uke is grabbing nage's right hand with their left hand>

Where I train, we wouldnt call it anything differently. its just a subtle variation. Maybe you could call it soto ("outside") Ikkyo if your waxing was clockwise.

Hope this helps.

[dalen7]

its right on left and counter-clockwise...but I did pick up that they didnt have a specific name for it other, so it seemed. (teaching is in Hungarian and I dont pick up 90% of what being said.)

So good to see I was right about the (non) naming convention of this.
Seems like it should have a name to differentiate it though, as the move brings uke infront of nage making him/her face the opposite direction then when starting. (Typically uke is never moved forward and spun around from where they stand)

Either way, kind of cool, just trying to get my feet more firm in the basics first. Im taking 2 test at once in June (6th and 5th). - had already been invited to do the 6th back in Dec. but didnt take it so now Im doing them together. - so Im trying to get what Im supposed to know down...Im still a bit slow though. :)

Peace

dAlen

[Nick P.]

I think I see.

As for the footwork, where I train, that is called gyaku-hanmi, assuming the front foot is under the hand (i.e. right hand "attacking" = right foot forward).

So, after nage effects his wax-on with his left <attacked> hand, and uke moves in front of nage, I imagine nage then reaches down with his free right hand and grasps uke's right wrist, and as they bring uke's wrist up high and break the grip, move their left hand up under uke's right elbow, continuing on to complete ikkyo?

[dalen7]

I think I see.

So, after nage effects his wax-on with his left <attacked> hand, and uke moves in front of nage, I imagine nage then reaches down with his free right hand and grasps uke's right wrist, and as they bring uke's wrist up high and break the grip, move their left hand up under uke's right elbow, continuing on to complete ikkyo?

Thanks for the reply -

Well we did it both gyaku hanmi & Ai hanmi.

But we can use Gyaku Hanmi here.

So, Uke grabs Nages Right arm (with his left, mirror pose/gyaku hanmi) and Nage waxes his right arm infront of him to his left and Uke follows and essentially turns around in the process to face the opposite direction that they initially attacked in.

After that Nage raises his arm upward in front of them and proceeds to do ikkyo or irimi nage.

What you are describing seems close enough for sure...
This whole bit is interesting as I havent seen it done since Ive been there.

But in a way it makes sense as its just another additional move.
i.e.
you have omote & ura. (front and back) so why not have it from side to side I suppose. I will say that the iriminage version was kind of cool and pretty effective...although it resembled one of the 'breathing moves' (sorry forgot which move right off hand, kokyu or tenchinage, etc)

Basically your right up on Uke and as your hand raises higher than his head he falls of balance, and you really dont have to do much...kind of cool as I have found these types of moves harder to do effectively at first.

Sorry cant explain it much better...the memory of it is already foggy, but I have practice tomorrow so will see if we do it again.


Again thanks for the reply

Peace

dAlen

[charyuop]

I have never done it that way that I remember, but if I well understood what you said I have seen it on Gozo Sensei's book. The technique is still called Ikkyo (well on the book Ikkajo).
Do not stay too long on the difference between the two and think of them as Ikkyo and that's it. The different way of doing it can be good to be practiced coz you might need it (different number of people, different space, different possibilities of movemenets...), but don't let it fool you. There is no new attached to an old...Ikkyo is Ikkyo.

[dalen7]

but don't let it fool you. There is no new attached to an old...Ikkyo is Ikkyo.

You know - interestingly enough we have only done those techniques in 2 of our lessons. (And I started last May.)

I approached a 2nd kyu and asked him about it - I gathered that, from what he understood, that he took the same slant on it that you just presented.

It just kind of through me off - in my attempt to try to categorize techniques etc. (again, there is a language 'barrier' here - so I couldnt get a clear response.)

Maybe one day Ill get a video camera and post some stuff on youtube...a lot easier than trying to explain it. :)

Thanks for the post.

Peace

dAlen