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View Full Version : How Do You Do This ... Er, Internal Jump?


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MM
02-26-2008, 11:18 AM
First, check out this video of Ueshiba:
http://www.dailymotion.com/related/2429242/video/x1fuh4_morihei-ueshiba-takemusui_school

Around 6:51 to 6:54, watch him "jump".

Now, I saw Dan do something like this. Only he didn't bend down like Ueshiba. Dan stood straight and rigid with knees locked and just popped upwards. Weird. :)

Tom H.
02-26-2008, 11:25 AM
..stood straight and rigid with knees locked and just popped upwards...Look for a chinese take on this as well. I'd bet you could find, e.g., chen taiji people doing this to demonstrate dantien rotations (kind of like the guy lying on his back and popping weighted disks off his belly down to his feet, which is dangerous if you miss-fire!). I've also heard training stories where you start by hopping this way out a shallow 1-inch hole, which you deepen to 2 inches, then 3.. and so on.

Jim Sorrentino
02-26-2008, 12:10 PM
Hello Mark,First, check out this video of Ueshiba:
http://www.dailymotion.com/related/2429242/video/x1fuh4_morihei-ueshiba-takemusui_school

Around 6:51 to 6:54, watch him "jump".

Now, I saw Dan do something like this. Only he didn't bend down like Ueshiba. Dan stood straight and rigid with knees locked and just popped upwards. Weird. :)So let's see it. Perhaps you (or one of Dan's regular visitors) would be so kind as to tape Dan (or one of his students) doing this and post a link. Then those of us who are reading the thread can compare the two --- and perhaps we can discuss what we see in an attempt to answer your question.

Jim

John Connolly
02-26-2008, 01:38 PM
You sure that's an "internal" jump? Certainly they were doing warm-ups, and using a closed-opened motion (which relates to internal processes). However, it seemed that he was just a bit over-exuberant on the first, and jumped, and then after limited his motion to his frame.

Timothy WK
02-26-2008, 01:48 PM
I'm pretty sure that "snap" Ueshiba has in the video indicates something internal. But he also clearly bent down and "jumped" up...

Not knowing how to "snap" like that, let alone "jump" without bending the legs, I don't know if it's the same thing or not.

John Connolly
02-26-2008, 01:55 PM
I think it's an example of the open-closed frame. And to be frank, I think Ueshiba just overshot his frame a bit, and then began performing the drill as he intended.

Just a guess...

MM
02-26-2008, 02:50 PM
You sure that's an "internal" jump? Certainly they were doing warm-ups, and using a closed-opened motion (which relates to internal processes). However, it seemed that he was just a bit over-exuberant on the first, and jumped, and then after limited his motion to his frame.

Er, um, no. I was just using Ueshiba's movement to get a frame of reference for people. :) Not in reference to what Ueshiba is doing.

MM
02-26-2008, 02:51 PM
I'm pretty sure that "snap" Ueshiba has in the video indicates something internal. But he also clearly bent down and "jumped" up...

Not knowing how to "snap" like that, let alone "jump" without bending the legs, I don't know if it's the same thing or not.

Not regarding the "snap" in Ueshiba. But regarding the "jump" by Dan without bending the legs. I don't think they're doing the same thing, but the Ueshiba reference helps people sort of visualize the movement. Guess that didn't work out as well as I had thought. LOL.

Ron Tisdale
02-26-2008, 02:52 PM
Hey Mark,

No Ueshiba here...

But remember that heaven and earth throw we worked at Mike's seminar? Basically, I tried to take the slack out of my body by extending in all directions. Was there a bit of a "pop" to it when it worked?

I also tried to have a bit of the heel bounce that Mike showed us.
Best,
Ron

MM
02-26-2008, 02:58 PM
Hey Mark,

No Ueshiba here...

But remember that heaven and earth throw we worked at Mike's seminar? Basically, I tried to take the slack out of my body by extending in all directions. Was there a bit of a "pop" to it when it worked?

I also tried to have a bit of the heel bounce that Mike showed us.
Best,
Ron

Hi Ron,
The heaven/earth throw we worked on was different than this. No heel bounce, no bending of the legs, and a rigid body. It's weird. :)

Mike Sigman
02-26-2008, 04:04 PM
Hey Mark,

No Ueshiba here...

But remember that heaven and earth throw we worked at Mike's seminar? Basically, I tried to take the slack out of my body by extending in all directions. Was there a bit of a "pop" to it when it worked?

I also tried to have a bit of the heel bounce that Mike showed us.
Best,
RonGoodness... I first posted how to train for that trick about ten years ago on the old Neijia list. And a few times since then. Funny how things come back around. It's part of basic qing-gong ("lightness exercises"). I used to even show it sometimes at workshops. Of course, it's probably a "koryu secret", but we never knew it. ;)

Best.

Mike

Haowen Chan
02-26-2008, 05:41 PM
Actually, thanks to Justin Smith for archiving that little nugget for us on aikiweb. Couldn't have found it without his help. :D

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12865

If he's on your ignore list, try this link instead:

http://denner.org/reinhard/neijia/peng/pengExercises.html

MM
02-26-2008, 06:41 PM
Goodness... I first posted how to train for that trick about ten years ago on the old Neijia list. And a few times since then. Funny how things come back around. It's part of basic qing-gong ("lightness exercises"). I used to even show it sometimes at workshops. Of course, it's probably a "koryu secret", but we never knew it. ;)

Best.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I wasn't looking around ten years ago. :) So, it's new to me.

Michael McCaslin
02-29-2008, 12:56 PM
This video of Dan John describing the proper way to do some Olympic lifts may provide some clues. Be warned, it's 50 minutes long. Towards the end, Dan is showing someone proper squat techniqe and he walks the person through two ways to do a long jump-- one with the legs bending, and the other with locked legs powered by the torso. The person jumps much further with the second version.

I don't think the motion Dan describes is as subtle as the internal jump, but I think it does provide some pointers as to where the engine is and how to become acquainted with it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6529481301858251744

Upyu
02-29-2008, 08:18 PM
This video of Dan John describing the proper way to do some Olympic lifts may provide some clues. Be warned, it's 50 minutes long. Towards the end, Dan is showing someone proper squat techniqe and he walks the person through two ways to do a long jump-- one with the legs bending, and the other with locked legs powered by the torso. The person jumps much further with the second version.

I don't think the motion Dan describes is as subtle as the internal jump, but I think it does provide some pointers as to where the engine is and how to become acquainted with it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6529481301858251744

I'll second that, it's good "#$t. Guy has a good understanding of biomechanics. Now if he could only take it a step further! :D

statisticool
03-16-2008, 11:17 AM
Actually, thanks to Justin Smith for archiving that little nugget for us on aikiweb. Couldn't have found it without his help. :D

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12865


You're welcome. I like real physics.

Kevin Leavitt
03-16-2008, 12:41 PM
Justin,

Might we see you at the Aunkai seminar at the end of May?

statisticool
03-16-2008, 03:13 PM
Justin,

Might we see you at the Aunkai seminar at the end of May?

Nope. I'll be fencing.

Erick Mead
03-16-2008, 05:10 PM
Nope. I'll be fencing.So...., do you prefer split rail, plank or chain link?

I'm a wrought-iron man, myself.

Kevin Leavitt
03-16-2008, 06:43 PM
Oh that kind of fencing. I assumed it was dealing with buying and recieivng stolen property. What a relief! I like electric fences personally, especially when they are powered by Ki.

Upyu
03-16-2008, 07:00 PM
So...., do you prefer split rail, plank or chain link?

I'm a wrought-iron man, myself.

Bad sign Justin, even Erick's gettin feisty towards you :D

Erick Mead
03-16-2008, 07:04 PM
Bad sign Justin, even Erick's gettin feisty towards you :DRob, your divining of my intention, as usual, goes consistently astray ... ;)

Upyu
03-16-2008, 08:15 PM
Rob, your divining of my intention, as usual, goes consistently astray ... ;)

My bad...actually was givin you the benefit of the doubt.
Didn't know that you were partial to trolls :D

statisticool
03-16-2008, 09:26 PM
Bad sign Justin, even Erick's gettin feisty towards you :D

I'm not much interested in looking at a person's character. How about let's hear your explanation if you believe it is an "internal (whatever that means) jump" or not?

MM
03-17-2008, 06:39 AM
Jun,
I started this thread, but if statisticool (Justin) is going to keep commenting on it, could you please close it? I'd rather not have the thread degenerate further.

Thanks,
Mark

Kevin Leavitt
03-17-2008, 08:17 PM
Justin,

If you are genuinely interesting in learning about this, I'd highly recommend skipping a weekend of fencing training and coming to the aunkai seminar. It is in Metro DC, NOVA area, so it is about as close as you are ever going to get!

I think you will find the people that are in attendance to be sincere, genuine, and open to working, not discussing or debating, but actually doing and showing.

I understand we all have our priorities and obligations....but it would seem to me, that someone who has spent as much time as you discussing this here would be willing to figure out a way to meet up and train.

statisticool
03-18-2008, 02:32 PM
If you are genuinely interesting in learning about this, I'd highly recommend skipping a weekend of fencing training and coming to the aunkai seminar. It is in Metro DC, NOVA area, so it is about as close as you are ever going to get!

I think you will find the people that are in attendance to be sincere, genuine, and open to working, not discussing or debating, but actually doing and showing.

I understand we all have our priorities and obligations....but it would seem to me, that someone who has spent as much time as you discussing this here would be willing to figure out a way to meet up and train.

Kevin,

Thank you for your kind thoughts and opinions. If I see something that is interesting from that group I will surely attend such a seminar.