We're not sure what to call him

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[Charles]

Our chief instructors have delegated the care and feeding of the kyus, in terms of arranging and coordinating the testing and such. We're wondering what to call the guy. I'm the web master for the dojo and I've had him listed as "Kyu Master". I was never really happy with the mixing of the two languages, but then I listed myself as "Web kohai" so I suppose I got over it some.

The guy, Tom, is unhappy with the "Master" part. I can see his point but we do have "Masters of Equity", "Choir Masters" and such. He's thinking something along the line of "supervisor" to follow the corporate model. I'm thinking that anything business like is an affront to the samurai traditions. Perhaps we should follow the Academic world and call him "Dean of Junior Students".

And I'm certain that if I ask either of our chief instructors I will be reduced in rank for wasting everybody's time with such trivial matters.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

[Nick P.]

And I'm certain that if I ask either of our chief instructors I will be reduced in rank for wasting everybody's time with such trivial matters.


No! You think? ;)

How about "kyu coach"?
My other suggestion is "Taker of Souls", but I think my first suggestion is the better of the two...

[Timothy WK]

Does he actually teach, or does he simply coordinate (& evaluate?) the testing process?

I wouldn't use "kyu", and "master" certainly carries weird connotations. I would combine either "junior", "mudansha", or "assistant" with either "instructor", "(test) coordinator", or "(test) supervisor".

[dps]

How about " Kyu Testing Coordinator".

David

[Mark Uttech]

[QUOTE=Charles Scheid;

And I'm certain that if I ask either of our chief instructors I will be reduced in rank for wasting everybody's time with such trivial matters.

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

There's your answer.

In gassho,

Mark

[gdandscompserv]

"The Kyuster"
:D

[James Davis]

Sempai Tom?

[SmilingNage]

"Knights of Ni: Ni! Ni! Ni! Ni! Ni! Ni!
Arthur: Who are you?
Knight of Ni: We are the Knights who say..... "Ni"!
Arthur: (horrified) No! Not the Knights who say "Ni"!
Knight of Ni: The same.
Other Knight of Ni: Who are we?
Knight of Ni: We are the keepers of the sacred words: Ni, Ping, and Nee-womm!
Other Knight of Ni: Nee-womm!
Arthur: (to Bedevere) Those who hear them seldom live to tell the tale!
Knight of Ni: The knights who say "Ni" demand..... a sacrifice!
Arthur: Knights of Ni, we are but simple travelers who seek the enchanter who
lives beyond these woods.
Knights of Ni: Ni! Ni! Ni! Ni! Ni! Ni! Ni! Ni! Ni!
Bedevere: No! Noooo! Aaaugh! No!
Knight of Ni: We shall say "Ni" to you... if you do not appease us.
Arthur: Well what is it you want?
Knight of Ni: We want.....

(pregnant pause)

A SHRUBBERY!!!! "

what is in a name lol.
how about director of something say student development.
or........

director of student relationships kyu-pid
director of hygiene and appearances kyu-te

[Steven]

why would you have to give said person some special title? I would think if that is required, it should come from the head instructor. But what the heck to I know.

[Will Prusner]

Is Tom bald?

You could call him "Kyu-ball".

[David Orange]

Our chief instructors have delegated the care and feeding of the kyus, in terms of arranging and coordinating the testing and such. We're wondering what to call the guy. ...He's thinking something along the line of "supervisor" to follow the corporate model. I'm thinking that anything business like is an affront to the samurai traditions. ....

Call him "kyucho" which would be "head of the kyu-ranked students". As in kancho (head of the house, or dojo) or dojocho.

And this does also appear in business, as in bucho (section chief) or jicho ("next" chief), etc.

Further, don't underestimate the bureaucracy of the samurai. Once they moved past being just bushi, or "warriors" and became "samurai," they became exceedingly bureaucratic and, if anything, the Japanese business culture gets a lot of it's content from the samurai customs, more than vice versa.

Best wishes.

David

[James Davis]

Is Tom bald?

You could call him "Kyu-ball".

Grrrr.

Bald guy mad.:grr: .

:D

[roadster]

Is Tom bald?

You could call him "Kyu-ball".

That is freakin' hilarious!

[SmilingNage]

And if he plentiful locks on his head....... Kyu-tip?

[Keith Larman]

Kyu-wrangler.

[Nick P.]

Is Tom bald?

You could call him "Kyu-ball".

HAH! Brilliant!

[mriehle]

I think you need to be clear about what you are trying to accomplish.

Is this about a title? Or about describing what his responsibilities are?

One of things that I've found very annoying over the years in business is when a company will bestow a title and then try to figure out what that person actually is supposed to do. A title, in my mind, should be nothing more nor less than a short description of responsibility.

Dojocho - head of the dojo. The guy in charge. Chief instructor.

Kyucho - (as was suggested) ought to be similar to dojocho only applying only to mudansha.

It seems like it's really easy to overthink this. What's he do? That should be sufficient to determine his "title".

[ramenboy]

i bet if you called him Tom, he'd be pretty happy, AND he'd answer right away when you call

:P

[MikeLogan]

If he's the guy that claps everyone to line up at the start of class you could call him the kyu-queue master plus!

Or just refer to him as sempai. I like kyucho, but not trained in the language I'd worry I was coming up with JapAnglais

[Kent Enfield]

"Kyucho" just sounds weird. It sounds like the person would be head of a level, as if your dojo were organized into kyu, rather than people having them. "I'm a member of yonkyu."

It sounds like you want something along the lines of:
"Ano mudansha no renshu to shinsa no junbi o kantoku suru yatsu".

Again, why does this person need a title? Are you creating an official position in the dojo?

[ramenboy]

If he's the guy that claps everyone to line up at the start of class you could call him the kyu-queue master plus!

call him 'the clapper'

like kent and others have posted, maybe he doesn't even need a title...

[Budd]

Nananananananananana . . . Clap-Man!!

er . . . okay . . . eeeewwwwwww . . . nevermind . . .

*bows out*

[Ron Tisdale]

Ow. :D

I agree...why does he need a title?

B,
R

[Charles]

Ow. :D

I agree...why does he need a title?

B,
RIt's for the contact page on the web site--so people who don't know that they need to contact some guy named Tom can contact him nonetheless.

I kind of like "Kyucho" but it's no more helpful than just using "Tom". If you know what it means you're most likely not a kyu anymore. Which leads me back to something like "Dean of Junior Students". Or perhaps, "Kyucho / head of the junior-ranked students".

To put the problem more fully, I have four people listed on the contact page: One of two chief instructors; The treasurer who also keeps the mailing list up to date; The Tom; and Your humble web master.Currently they are listed as: n n Sensei; n n Treasurer & Registrar; n n Kyu master; n n Web kohai.As you can see, the situation is quite a mess.

[akiy]

It's for the contact page on the web site--so people who don't know that they need to contact some guy named Tom can contact him nonetheless.
Wouldn't people who would need to contact him already know his role in the dojo?

In any case, as for the term "kyu-cho," this term just doesn't ring true for me. Although there are other terms such as "dojocho," "bucho," "kancho," and such, all of these terms contain nouns which indicate some sort of collective group (eg dojo, bu, kan). "Kyu," to me, does not have a connotation of a group and therefore sounds incongruous to my Japanese ears. If you and your dojocho feel like this person needs some sort of public title, why not just use something simple like "Mentor of kyu-ranked students"?

Best,

-- Jun

[Ron Tisdale]

Bingo. As usual, Jun does it proud.

B,
R (just don't call him late for dinner...) :D

[ramenboy]

...just don't call him late for dinner... :D

hahahahahahahahahaaha

...please contact our dean of intermediate studies, Tom

ok, sorry I'm not much help charles. good luck

[barron]

At a meeting the other night we were discussing titles in the dojo such as Dojo Cho etc. and came up with a new one for a student who was a very conscientious dojo cleaner.........

"Sho - janitor"

Please feel free to use this honorary title in your dojo.

[Budd]

What's wrong with just 'Sempai'?

[Pierre Kewcharoen]

How about Aiki-quarterback

[Kent Enfield]

What's wrong with just 'Sempai'?Sempai is descriptive of one half of a relationship between two people, not of an absolute position.

[Charles]

Sempai is descriptive of one half of a relationship between two people, not of an absolute position.Considering that the term applies to all members of the dojo except one, "sempai" isn't very helpful. And it's another one of those Japanese words that serve as jargon at best and a private language at worst. But I suppose that should be that the term applies to all members of the martial arts studio except one.

I seem to be going in the wrong direction.

[Budd]

Sempai is descriptive of one half of a relationship between two people, not of an absolute position.

Isn't part of the problem with this whole thing the attempt to name an absolute position? Don't bother with it, put something generic and non-absolute in there . . . then tell the kyus to go see their Sempai ;)

[Bronson]

Is the website targeted to current students or potential students?

If it's to current students then it really doesn't matter since, as stated previously, the people who need to contact him should know what's up. If you're targeting potential/new students I think you should limit the use of Japanese, or at the very least provide a translation ie "Sensei" (head instructor). While on that subject the title of "Web kohai" seems really strange to me. Why confuse things for people visiting your site who don't know the vocabulary? If your uncomfortable with being called the "Web master" why not go with something like "Website administrator".

Just my take.

Bronson

[Kent Enfield]

Well, maybe the website started aikido before he did?

[David Orange]

Wouldn't people who would need to contact him already know his role in the dojo?

At the yoseikan hombu, we had Akahori Sensei, who handled all kinds of bureaucratic matters from collecting money and stamping payment envelopes to stamping budo "passports" and organizing various events. As far as I know he had no title for those functions. He was "just one of the shihan."

In any case, as for the term "kyu-cho," this term just doesn't ring true for me. Although there are other terms such as "dojocho," "bucho," "kancho," and such, all of these terms contain nouns which indicate some sort of collective group (eg dojo, bu, kan). "Kyu," to me, does not have a connotation of a group and therefore sounds incongruous to my Japanese ears.

That's true. But what about something like mudansha jicho (head of mudansha matters---ji as in koto)?

David

[David Orange]

That's true. But what about something like mudansha jicho (head of mudansha matters---ji as in koto)?


Anyway, any title you make up, you will soon be reading about it in some magazine--how some guy's secret ninja master promoted him to kyucho, and how he was the first non-Japanese to earn that rank!

David

[dps]

If he gets a special title will he wear a special gi and have a special colored hakama and belt?

David

[Josh Reyer]

That's true. But what about something like mudansha jicho (head of mudansha matters---ji as in koto)?


In order to use "cho", one must be the head of some kind of organized entity. Gakkou = school, thus, Kouchou = principal. Toshi = city, thus shichou = mayor. Kaisha = company, shachou = company president. Kai = board, committee, meeting, kaichou = chairman.

Koto is not an organized entity, so cho(u) can't be used. What would be used in such situations is 係り kakari. Thus, Mudansha (no) kakari. In a more specific sense, I suspect mudansha (no) shidouyaku (mudansha guidance) would be used here in Japan.

OTOH, I love things being in their native idiom. English webpage? Targeted towards English speakers? I likes me some "Assistant Instructor" action.

"Web kohai", incidently, would suggest to a Japanese person that there is a "web sempai" who is perhaps in charge of the website. "Kohai" doesn't mean "junior student" in and of itself. Even your Chief Instructor remains someone's kohai.

[Ron Tisdale]

yep, english is the best choice. And David is correct, make something up in Japanese, and some idiot will be using it as a "legitimate" title within their made up art, and referencing your webpage on ebudo when called on it.

And dragging you into a flame fest. :D

Best,
Ron

[David Orange]

In order to use "cho", one must be the head of some kind of organized entity. Gakkou = school, thus, Kouchou = principal. Toshi = city, thus shichou = mayor. Kaisha = company, shachou = company president. Kai = board, committee, meeting, kaichou = chairman.

True...but....in the old "case by case" sense, they also have bucho and jicho--division heads. So you could consider something like mudansha bucho....

But like I said, in the old dojo in Shizuoka, the person that took care of the various "sub-business" aspects of the dojo operations didn't have a title at all. And I agree with you that in and English-based operation, an English title (if any) is better.

David

[David Orange]

yep, english is the best choice. And David is correct, make something up in Japanese, and some idiot will be using it as a "legitimate" title within their made up art, and referencing your webpage on ebudo when called on it.

Actually, the story is, Steven Hayes was named "shidoshi" by Hatsumi--a term Hatsumi coined specifically for Hayes. And next thing you know, all kinds of ninjers have that title--all bestowed by their revered hyper-traditional masters!

David

[Josh Reyer]

True...but....in the old "case by case" sense, they also have bucho and jicho--division heads. So you could consider something like mudansha bucho....


A "bu" is an organized entity - in essence it's a "department" or "division". And "jicho" in this case is 次長, with the character 次 meaning "vice-, sub-, next, succeeding". Mudanshabu-cho would be perfectly acceptable if you created a mudansha-bu.

[David Orange]

A "bu" is an organized entity - in essence it's a "department" or "division". And "jicho" in this case is 次長, with the character 次 meaning "vice-, sub-, next, succeeding". Mudanshabu-cho would be perfectly acceptable if you created a mudansha-bu.

Yes, I think mudansha bucho would be more appropriate. Though, again, a special title really isn't necessary.....unless there is just some need to sound Japanese....

Best to you.

David

[mriehle]

You know, I'm really feeling like the key term for this thread is:

Overthink.

[Mato-san]

Amen

[Mato-san]

Josh is the man for these upsets... Josh?

[Mato-san]

sorry you did that already... osoi