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dps
11-08-2007, 07:00 AM
This thread is for those of us who are of kyu rank in Aikido and currently practicing ( no matter how many years you have been practicing) to express our thoughts and frustrations learning Aikido. Please keep the posting civil and respectful toward each other and especially comments about our Senseis and dan ranks.

No dan ranks need post except for Jun of course.

One of my biggest frustrations is when I understand what my sensei is telling me and showing me but not being able to do the technique. I practice at home until I have it then at the next practice I can't do it. It is as if I were doing the technique for the first time. Very confusing.

David

Bronson
11-08-2007, 03:41 PM
Hi David,

One of my biggest frustrations is when I understand what my sensei is telling me and showing me but not being able to do the technique. I practice at home until I have it then at the next practice I can't do it. It is as if I were doing the technique for the first time. Very confusing.

Sorry for breaking the parameters of your thread right off the bat (I hold dan ranking) but I'm curious as to why you might think that dan ranks don't deal with these very same issues. One thing that I've been told and have since noticed to be true is that people of every level continue to make the same mistakes. It's just that the people with more experience and awareness have more tools to correct the mistakes and are able to correct them sooner; often before others even knew a mistake had been made.

I'm reminded of a story that somebody posted here once. Their sensei was an uchideshi to O Sensei. Once while they were alone he mentioned to O Sensei that he always had difficulty keeping his balance during a particular technique. O Sensei replied "Yes, so do I".

For some reason that fills me with hope for my own meager ability :D :p

I'll shall now bow out as per your request :D

Bronson

eyrie
11-08-2007, 04:02 PM
A forum parody... nice one Dave... :D

Oops... sorry, but I must excuse myself even though I consider myself a beginner in almost everything....

Angela Dunn
11-08-2007, 04:13 PM
Yellow belt here so I think I count.

I am with you on your point David

When I can not remember names of techniques that I should know by now. Similarly when I can not remember how to do a technique that was for previous belts...scarily this seems to be happening more than I would like.
People telling me to relax in techniques. The second that word comes out I tense up even more! That's really frustrating.

Uncooperative ukes, (yes I am guilty of being one myself till people point out what I am doing and make me aware of it. l working on it but its still frustrating on both sides) On a similar note I have encountered people in nationals who can see me struggling with a technique and get annoyed with me instead of trying to help.

People who don't let go so I can roll out of a technique so I have to tell them to let go. (I want to roll out properly before I get onto the scary break falls.)

Mattias Bengtsson
11-08-2007, 04:21 PM
When Im corrected by someone of a lower Kuy grade than me.
A friend of mine have just started so we discussed how to do the kotagaeshi, and he started to correct me (not in class, just hanging out together) on how the kotagaeshi was supposed to be done...

embarrassing, truly.

well, at least my ukemi, shihonage, kokuynages et al are much better than his...:p

dps
11-08-2007, 06:11 PM
.... but I'm curious as to why you might think that dan ranks don't deal with these very same issues.

I don't.

David

Mark Freeman
11-08-2007, 06:46 PM
This thread is for those of us who are of kyu rank in Aikido and currently practicing ( no matter how many years you have been practicing) to express our thoughts and frustrations learning Aikido. Please keep the posting civil and respectful toward each other and especially comments about our Senseis and dan ranks.

No dan ranks need post except for Jun of course.



That's not fair David, now I have two threads that I'm not aloud into :mad: Perhaps those of us dan grades with less than 20 years under our belts should start our own. But we'll remember you when you come knocking, after you have sucessfully taken your shodan grading evileyes

regards,

Mark

dps
11-08-2007, 07:33 PM
One of the reasons for this thread is to see if the dan ranks can refrain from commenting. A good parent sometimes needs to be quiet and listen and let the children talk amongst themselves.:)

David

Nikopol
11-08-2007, 07:33 PM
That's not fair David, now I have two threads that I'm not aloud into :mad: Perhaps those of us dan grades with less than 20 years under our belts should start our own. But we'll remember you when you come knocking, after you have sucessfully taken your shodan grading evileyes

regards,

Mark

If someone wants to have a discussion among his peers, why interrupt? Bad form. The kyu level Aikidoka lack rank, not brains.

Don't butt in, especially after you have been asked not to. Sort of demonstrates why Dave felt the need to mention it.

Janet Rosen
11-08-2007, 07:41 PM
One of my biggest frustrations is when I understand what my sensei is telling me and showing me but not being able to do the technique. I practice at home until I have it then at the next practice I can't do it. It is as if I were doing the technique for the first time.

Oh yes! But then there is the flip side of that, which is to practice something over and over, going from bad to worse, all left feet and 12 thumbs...then for whatever reasons, have to skip some classes, and on returning discover that somehow you got it into the brain/body when you weren't paying attention.

The learning process never ceases to surprise me!

dps
11-08-2007, 08:00 PM
When I can not remember names of techniques that I should know by now.

I find myself mumbling the names throughout the day to try to remember them.

David

Beard of Chuck Norris
11-09-2007, 03:56 AM
Well I'm 2nd kyu..

I have thought that a place for us newbs would be nice. So we can talk amongst ourselves without the need to inject a heavy dose of pompousness that seems to go hand in hand with the yudansha that post on here....:p

The biggest thing that gets me is that my ukemi only seems to get better in hefty doses i.e. it'll be rubbish to the point of it being nearly dangerous then all of a sudden it's ok... remains ok for a fair while, couple of bruises and bops to the head, maybe a dose of whiplash... then it gets better.... but only ever on one side! :(

I'd prefer a much more gradual, pain free learning curve... but, wouldn't we all.
;)

Peace and love

J.

Qatana
11-09-2007, 08:04 AM
That my sensei feels that my character development is not yet on a par with my technique. At 2nd kyu I am feeling a lot of pressure to "embody the qualities of a senir student" and as character development is my primary reason for training I am starting to feel inadequate.

jason jordan
11-09-2007, 08:35 AM
One of the reasons for this thread is to see if the dan ranks can refrain from commenting. A good parent sometimes needs to be quiet and listen and let the children talk amongst themselves.:)

David

OOOHHHH Good one....;) DOH!!! :yuck: commented!...Sorry Bye enjoy

Dyryke
11-09-2007, 09:01 AM
My favorite frustration is an uke asking me to "take it easy" because they're not flexible, have a bad wrist, whatever... then proceed to pick apart your technique after you've made it more forgiving to accommodate them.

That's the point I delete their request from my memory and do the technique whole-heartedly. =)

Derek

Beard of Chuck Norris
11-09-2007, 09:45 AM
Yeah, i think mis matches between nage and uke must be one of the big limiters in one's development.

Many things I would like to try out but i always say, "Could i take ukemi from this safely?" usually the answer is no, because... see my above post. ;)
I guess it is good because well, it teaches you patience and respect for the person lending you their body!

Mainly, we kyusha do just have to be patient and learn.

xuzen
11-09-2007, 11:50 PM
I'm reminded of a story that somebody posted here once. Their sensei was an uchideshi to O Sensei. Once while they were alone he mentioned to O Sensei that he always had difficulty keeping his balance during a particular technique. O Sensei replied "Yes, so do I". Bronson

Hail all you lowly kyu ranked p3epUL.... Boon The Superiorly DAN Ranked Pompous Al-Mightiness needs to correct Bronson.

I think it was a conversation between Jacques Payet and Kancho Shioda Gozo. Jacques was one of the earliest western uchi-deshi to Kancho. Their relationship was like that of friend and drinking buddy outside the mat.

One day, Kancho invited Jacques for beer in his office and Jacques asked Kancho what's the deal with Shumatsu-Dosa ni exercise, all these turning around and pivoting etc. Kancho looked at Jacques and said sternly and as a matter of fact... "It is not a big deal, I can't do it well either . Now lets have more beer."

Boon.

Janet Rosen
11-10-2007, 12:25 AM
... I am starting to feel inadequate.

"starting"?!? HAHAHAHAHAH....I felt it every day for the first 2 years I trained....no, not meaning to make light of it, I know what you mean.
On the other hand, what I have found in my training is that it is when I am overwhelmed w/ feelings of having hit the wall of my own limitations, of feeling really inadequate--that is precisely when there is nothing to do but trust my teachers and seniors and keep slogging because I'm going to burst through off a plateau in a while.
--janet, the perennial and forever 2nd kyu

dps
11-10-2007, 09:51 AM
How did you start practicing Aikido?

I wrestled in high school and was looking for a Judo class at the university I was attending. Someone told me that there was a blackbelt in Aikido looking to start a club on campus and that Aikido was like Judo. So another student and myself started an Aikido club not knowing what we were going to practice.

David

Qatana
11-10-2007, 10:06 AM
"starting"?!? HAHAHAHAHAH....I felt it every day for the first 2 years I trained....no, not meaning to make light of it, I know what you mean.


Ok, to finish the sentence- feeling inadequate as a Senior Student. As a 2nd kyu I KNOW I am inadequate, at least when it comes to other dojos. In my own dojo I really have no barometer to compare myself to,my immediate sempai was 2nd kyu for over 12 years, just a little beyond her rank.
And as I said, since I am training primarily for character development, I don't sem to be where Sensei thinks I should be, however we do LOTS of work on how things Are and how they "should be'.
Better run, class in 20 minutes!

RoyK
11-11-2007, 05:25 PM
I'm 3rd kyu.

Two things currently bother me:
One is that I feel that over the years I've mastered the art of handling lenient or resistive ukes and not the art of self defense. But I do have to admit that it wasn't that long ago when handling some of the more resistive ukes seemed like a hard goal to reach.

Second, I often feel like there are two approaches to training for me: One is being self criticizing, which leads to improvement but also to frustration, and the other is trying to just enjoy class, which leads to sloppy form but keeps me from leaving class with a sense of failure. It's a funny paradox, and so far I can't seem to find the balance between these two approaches that works for me.

Beard of Chuck Norris
11-12-2007, 03:34 AM
Another thing is that the Dan grades just can't leave things alone can they?

Gots ta butt yer noses in don't ya!?

kyusha / mudansha, i use both terms, as both are correct.

that is all.

Stephen Webb
11-12-2007, 07:59 PM
Been doing it for a year and a half now, fifth kyu but probably about to test for fourth or something.

For me one of the most frustrating things is when a new guy will start practicing with me and ask me "can you do a front roll?" Yes, I understand that, as a fifth kyu, most people are still all left feet and may still have some trouble taking ukemi at full speed. But you immediately assume that I can't do it.

I guess I should let my ego go, because I think my ukemi is very, very good. The night before the most recent incident of this happened, I was practicing with a bunch of shodan doing breakfalls from various techniques for an hour and a half. But this guy couldn't have known that. *sigh* so much depends on the color you wear around your waist.

John Bernhard
11-13-2007, 12:54 AM
Ditto on almost all the above. I get tired of the assumptions of how things are based upon your rank or your belt not your level. There is great difference in rank and level. There are I'm sure 3rd kyu's that are probably at Shodan level just like there are Shodans that are probably at 3rd Kyu level.

I also get tired of poor attacks or I should say improper attacks or stopping attacks half way through. Whats worse is you see this in both Kyu and Dan rankings about equally. Seminars show this rather evidently.

I also get really frustrated when your Sensei makes you feel like a dumb a** for not doing this little part or that little part of the technique, or how can you not see what the Shihan is doing. Even worse is when they embarrass you in front of a group of people when you were only trying to learn but weren't getting it just right.

I'm sure there are tons more but thats all for the moment.

roadster
11-13-2007, 01:39 AM
This thread makes me wonder where some of you are taking class. Thankfully (at least for now) I have an abundance of Aikido Dojo's to choose from. If there was an issue that couldn't be resolved between myself and Sempai, or Sensei, then I would consider going to another dojo.

So far, the communication has been excellent at my dojo. Any minor issues between studentís personalities, forms, attitudes, techniques, ect have been nipped in the bud as soon as they are recognized by my very helpful, very skillful, very patient Sensei.

We are all there to learn. If there is a question, ask. If there is an issue, resolve it. From my standpoint, it looks as if many of you don't feel comfortable either asking questions, confronting frustration or confusion, or submitting to the expertise of the Sensei.

Maybe I am lucky enough to train with a group of people that lift each other up rather than segregate by rank or years in Aikido. I used to have a pretty strong personality outside of the dojo that got left at the door when I walked inside. With the help of the right people, it now gets left at the door everytime I leave home.

Many of the frustrations I see listed in this thread look to be a lack of communication, and maybe a little bit of a personality conflict.

trailbuster530
11-14-2007, 11:11 AM
Here is what I have learned so far:
1. I am not 20 anymore.
2. Training with my wife and 2 daughters is a kick.
3. Japanese is hard to learn.
4. Relax and don't try and force move/pattern.
5. Incorrect Ukemi hurts. . . again I am not 20 anymore.

charyuop
11-15-2007, 12:13 PM
I think a thread like this can be a good thing. We all beginners might be able to find some solutions to some of our problems or pinpoint things we do wrong when we read other people doing the same. The important thing is that it doesn't become a whine thread.
My problems? Many, but I will try to gather them up in here.

1_ Misubi.
I really can't feel the connections. The few times Senpai tells me "that was good" in my head goes on a "nah, you just threw yourself down, I didn't feel any connection there". Basically if I don't bulldozer Uke in my head there is no connection.
2_ Shoulders.
Doesn't matter how relax I think I am, my shoulders pop high everytime we start practicing. The fact is that I do not even realize it till Sensei tells me "lower your shoulders".
3_ Comfortable positioning.
Doesn't matter what technique I do I let Uke crush me. It seems that I am not able to place myself in a comfortable position ending up constantly crashed or out of balance.
4_ Hand focus.
Too much focusing on the hands of Uke. The few times I manage to ignore Uke's hands and move as if he is not striking me I do somewhat better and actually surprise myself. But the following throw here I go again focusing on Uke's hand.
5_ Idiot Syndrome
I try to do something and Sensei stops me. Spends minutes explaining me what he wants and I understand perfectly...then I try again and do it the same way: feel like an idiot! And that something I noticed...I move from every technique following the path which is in my head, I can't see any diffence in movement even when they say I did it right. To me I move always the same.

I am sure I could find more, but this is what comes to my mind at the moment. By the way, 10 months training never tested (and not really interested into testing either hee hee. I just like training).

Anjisan
11-15-2007, 12:17 PM
Hello All. I do have a dan ranking in Aikido and another art which disqualifies me from relevance with regard to this discussion, so it would seem. However, I do have just a couple of quick points: First, just because I and others have a dan ranking does not mean that we cannot or have not retained the ability to remember what it is like to be a beginner and consequently have valuable input. Moreover, it does not necessarily make us pompous or arrogant--certainly not if one has had good teachers. Further, there really are individuals within the Aikido community who really do practice the "Beginner State of Mind" for real. Second, the Philosophy implied withing many, if not most, organizations of Aikido stress inclusion, connection, exchange, not exclusion whether it be to someone off the street who wants to begin training, or among "Only" Dan ranks or "Only" kyu ranks who want to speak their mind. Individuals should not be confined to "that group", It seems just as silly as discussions of "Only" among women Aikidoka--men need not speak up or "Only" members of a particular organization--others need not give their input. Just think if the Yudansha "Only" wanted to train with other Yudansha--when that happened to me it really frustrated me--how that may slow ones training. That is certainly not what the spirit of this forum or Aikido is about ---- in my opinion.

akiy
11-15-2007, 12:46 PM
Hi folks,

I'll be honest and say that I, too, am personally feeling put-off by the off-handed and rather widely brushed remarks of yudansha being "arrogant", "pompous", and can't help but "butt in." I would very much appreciate it if this thread not turn into some sort of yudansha-bashing thread, indirectly or otherwise, as I would consider such to be quite disrespectful.

I'll also say that I agree with Gianluigi who writes above that, "The important thing is that it doesn't become a whine thread." I understand very well that hearing that other people have the same grievances that you're having can be very refreshing. However, I would like to ask everyone if you could please figure out how to turn this thread into one that is positive in nature that aims to solve issues rather than just highlights them.

Best,

-- Jun

Ryan Porter
11-15-2007, 02:00 PM
This is one that happened the other day. I was practicing with a dan who just joined our dojo so he has a different style. The sensei came by to tell me to Kotegeishi in a certain way, but when he left to help others, my partner kept telling me to do it his way.

roadster
11-15-2007, 10:33 PM
This is one that happened the other day. I was practicing with a dan who just joined our dojo so he has a different style. The sensei came by to tell me to Kotegeishi in a certain way, but when he left to help others, my partner kept telling me to do it his way.

That's when you say "with all due respect Sempai, Sensei is teaching it this way today".

Beard of Chuck Norris
11-16-2007, 03:07 AM
Hi folks,

I'll be honest and say that I, too, am personally feeling put-off by the off-handed and rather widely brushed remarks of yudansha being "arrogant", "pompous", and can't help but "butt in." I would very much appreciate it if this thread not turn into some sort of yudansha-bashing thread, indirectly or otherwise, as I would consider such to be quite disrespectful.

-- Jun

Probably my posts you are referring to Jun. It was an attempt at banter, i'll not try it again.

Apologies.

jo