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Mike Haber
12-12-2001, 12:08 PM
Anyone describe it? What are some of the unique things about it?

Etc.

Edward
12-12-2001, 10:58 PM
Dear Mike,

It seems you are new to Japanese MA, since this is the second thread that you start asking to evaluate ot describe the styles of high-ranking teachers. You might be interested to know that it is considered very unappropriate to comment on teachers' styles from lower ranking practionners. Even when higher ranking teachers have any comments, they will usually do it privately, not on a public forum like this one.

Regards,
Edward

Chris Li
12-12-2001, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by Edward
Dear Mike,

It seems you are new to Japanese MA, since this is the second thread that you start asking to evaluate ot describe the styles of high-ranking teachers. You might be interested to know that it is considered very unappropriate to comment on teachers' styles from lower ranking practionners. Even when higher ranking teachers have any comments, they will usually do it privately, not on a public forum like this one.

Regards,
Edward

I probably wouldn't do it to their face (well, I might, but it would depend), but I don't see anything wrong with commenting on a particular teacher's style. FWIW, I train in Japan and am the only non-Japanese at any of the dojo that I frequent. In spite of that, conversations about different teacher's styles are quite common, whether I bring them up or not :).

Best,

Chris

Erik
12-12-2001, 11:52 PM
Originally posted by Chris Li
I probably wouldn't do it to their face (well, I might, but it would depend), but I don't see anything wrong with commenting on a particular teacher's style.

Second that! Goes on all the time.

Of course, I'm a bit extreme at times. :)

Edward
12-13-2001, 01:13 AM
Well, we all do it sometimes, some of us most of the time... But it still is not appropriate.

Whatever gossip said in our closed group at the dojo, stays in the group (usually), but this is a public forum.

Edward
12-13-2001, 01:21 AM
To make myself clearer, there is nothing wrong about telling anecdotes and personal experience with this or that sensei. This sends the message you want to convey in a subtle way.

You cannot judge and evaluate a teacher's style because you don't have the knowledge and the credibility to do it. It is a sign of lack of humility as well.

Tony Peters
12-13-2001, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by Edward
To make myself clearer, there is nothing wrong about telling anecdotes and personal experience with this or that sensei. This sends the message you want to convey in a subtle way.

You cannot judge and evaluate a teacher's style because you don't have the knowledge and the credibility to do it. It is a sign of lack of humility as well.

While you are correct in that I cannot judge the effectiveness of a teacher Aikido (or any martial arts teacher) without feeling that which they teach I can comment on how it feels. I have taken Ukemi from enough Sensei to recognize the differences between them. As well as forming some opinions about their styles. Of course one would have to trust my POV but then asking a question on a BBS is like that. I have always found it rather amusing the etiquette that is applied to japanese MA that have little to do with japanses culture or the martial art

Mike Haber
12-13-2001, 10:01 AM
First of all, you don't know squat about me so you can go to ....

Second off, what you said is a bunch of .... because these questions are asked by many aikidoka all over the web. Take your higher than thou attitute and ..... it.

Lastly, no one even answered the question. Everyone responded to this ...... stupid post.

Thanks

akiy
12-13-2001, 11:28 AM
I haven't trained with Hikitsuchi sensei personally, but I have trained with folks who have trained at his dojo, some for over 15 years. As they say, you can usually tell how good an instructor a teacher is by his or her students...

What I've felt from folks who have trained with Hikitsuchi sensei are very dynamic, "big," and stable aikido. From stories that I've heard, training at Shingu is quite an experience!

I've seen some advertisements for video tapes of Hikitsuchi sensei but the only website link I have currently to one is here:

http://www.coolrain.com/www-coolrain-com/3.html

It also looks like Pacific Interface Inc (e-mail: aikido@pacific-interface.com) has a three video set of Hikitsuchi sensei called "The Essential Teachings of Aikido". You might want to contact them, too, if you're interested.

Hope that helps.

-- Jun

Erik
12-13-2001, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by Edward
You cannot judge and evaluate a teacher's style because you don't have the knowledge and the credibility to do it. It is a sign of lack of humility as well.

Everyone I know evaluates movies. No one I know makes them.

Mike Collins
12-13-2001, 01:44 PM
I'm in the same boat as Jun. But from my experience with his students and from Anno Sensei (I'm not sure if he'd be deshi or kohai to Hikitsuchi sensei, as he trained with OSensei when he was alive), it is a big Aikido, very dynamic, and emphasizing the rebound caused by an implied atemi.

And if you a fat boy, it'll cause you to cough up a lung.

Mike Haber
12-13-2001, 03:19 PM
Mike,

We have talked before but what does "it is a big Aikido, very dynamic, and emphasizing the rebound caused by an implied atemi" mean?

Thanks Mike

Chris Li
12-13-2001, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by Edward
To make myself clearer, there is nothing wrong about telling anecdotes and personal experience with this or that sensei. This sends the message you want to convey in a subtle way.

You cannot judge and evaluate a teacher's style because you don't have the knowledge and the credibility to do it. It is a sign of lack of humility as well.

Hmm, my instructors (all Japanese) evaluate other teacher's styles all the time - both postiviely and negatively, without seeming to worry about humility. Myself, I have twenty years in, how long do you have to hang around before you can render an opinion? For that matter, even a first-timer walking off the street has to evaluate a teacher, otherwise how would they choose where to train?

Best,

Chris

Edward
12-13-2001, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by Mike Haber
First of all, you don't know squat about me so you can go to ....

Second off, what you said is a bunch of .... because these questions are asked by many aikidoka all over the web. Take your higher than thou attitute and ..... it.

Lastly, no one even answered the question. Everyone responded to this ...... stupid post.

Thanks

Dear Mike,

I just read your message now. You did not ask me any questions, so I am incapable of answering anyhow(in ref. to your other highly educative post on Dojo name thread). The problem is that the message is full of .... so it is very difficult for me to understand the meaning. Perhaps you would care to fill in the lacunes so that every body could read your opinion clearly?

Best regards,
Edward

Edward
12-13-2001, 10:16 PM
Just to avoid any misunderstandings, the .... in my above answer are not a substitute for any other word. You should read them as "points". Thanks.

Edward

akiy
12-13-2001, 10:47 PM
It's kind of hard to describe what "big" feels like. I think it has the feeling that the technique totally envelopes you in its entirety, if that makes sense. Anyone else care to describe what Hikitsuchi sensei or his students feel like?

As far as the tone of some of the posts here (and in other threads), please follow the first Forum Rule (seen below the posting message text box) of "Treat your fellow AikiWeb Forums members with respect." Thank you.

-- Jun

Edward
12-13-2001, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by Erik


Everyone I know evaluates movies. No one I know makes them.

Hi Erik,

Evaluating movies is a good example. While we all evaluate movies between friends, I don't think we have the knowledge to be able to evaluate movies in a magazine or a newspaper for example. I said above that even though it is not appropriate, but we all do it, myself included. However, I have an idea that would appeal to all forum members.

Why don't we adopt the star rating system used for movies in order to rate our shihans and senseis. Even Aikiweb uses it for books and websites. Perhaps Jun would be interested in adding a new column called "sensei rating"? It doesn't have to be simple, we can rate separately several different aspects of sensei's style such as: speed, power, form, flow, viciousness, softness (or hardness), as well as personal liking (or disliking). That would be a very modern and authentic way of really knowing what is a sensei worth in the eyes of his students.
Do you all agree?

Best regards,
Edward

JW
12-14-2001, 12:07 AM
It doesn't sound like the question was anything
REMOTELY like "was it a good movie" or
even "how good was the movie."
Sounds more like "what happens in the
movie" or "is that a comedy or science
fiction" or "is it in color or b/w."
There's nothing wrong with asking that,
come on.
--Jonathan Wong

Mike Collins
12-14-2001, 09:51 AM
If discussing Aikido teachers in a public forum is inappropriate, a "star rating" system is, as a minimum, grotesque.

It would be inappropriate to be disrespectful of an acknowledged teacher, or to criticize their knowledge (it happens, but it's distasteful). To subject someone who has spent a lifetime to an art to a "thumbs up/thumbs down" rating system hurts my head.

To discuss aspects of a teachers art is only conversation. I'm pretty sure most, if not all of us, can manage to be respectful while discussing various Shihan and/or teachers.

Edward
12-14-2001, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by Mikey
If discussing Aikido teachers in a public forum is inappropriate, a "star rating" system is, as a minimum, grotesque.


Mike,

I hope that you did notice that star rating suggestion was pure sarcasme. If not, perhaps you might want to read my previous posts regarding this subject.

Cheers,
Edward

Mike Haber
12-14-2001, 11:16 AM
Reread my post again. You know exactly what the .... means.

People like you probably get lots of posts like that.

Reread it and try again.

akiy
12-14-2001, 11:32 AM
Hi folks,

Please watch your tone on the public forums. If you feel the need to be rude, take it to private messages or private e-mail.

-- Jun

cguzik
12-14-2001, 02:27 PM
"Big Aikido"

I don't have any direct experience training with Hikitsuchi Sensei, but I have worked with some of his students. One of them said of Anno Sensei, that he "paints the walls with his uke."

This could be contrasted to another one of my teachers, of whom it has been said that he "wipes the mat with his uke."

To me, the former has more of a component of leading out and around, and the latter leading in and down.

I would hesitate to use these stereotypes, though, because I think it has everything to do with the uke's attack and how uke responds to nage's lead. Either kind of spiral can readily become the other (as if they were ever different).

Chris Guzik

Abasan
12-14-2001, 04:30 PM
...One of them said of Anno Sensei, that he "paints the walls with his uke."
This could be contrasted to another one of my teachers, of whom it has been said that he "wipes the mat with his uke."


I remember in Karate Kid, the sensei made 'Grasshopper' paint walls and wipe floors. Sounds like good sensei's are very much at home in Home Improvement as they are in the dojo! :D

Tim Griffiths
01-13-2002, 06:11 AM
Originally posted by Edward
You cannot judge and evaluate a teacher's style because you don't have the knowledge and the credibility to do it. It is a sign of lack of humility as well.

Never let it be said I'm not
humble...

We have to judge sensei all the time.
We can't go to all the seminars or
classes we'd like, so we make choices,
based on our opinions of the sensei
involved. Maybe one can't evaluate
a teachers style well, in
which case people here would be glad
to correct the opinion :), but we still
need to judge.

Of course, if I say "Usagiuma-sensei
is rubbish! His aikido's bad, he smells
bad, talks nonsense and his mother's
uglier than he is!" then that's a random
personal attack and probably inapproprite.
If I have valid concerns, I could
phrase it differently:

"I have a question. On a seminar with
Usagiuma-sensei I noticed his movements
were different to the basics that my
own sensei stresses, he eats when he
teaches (including the tatami) and
doesn't adhere to the Japanese norm
of personal hygene. Is this a
particular style of aikido, or is there
something I'm not understanding?
I'm new to aikido, I've spent about
36 hours on the mat (I was the last to
leave and got my foot stuck in a gap),
although I've spent most of my life
pig-wrestling (so its kind of the same
thing)."

Same question, different tone.

Normally, of course, I just issue a
challenge to the death. If they wimp
out then they're not worthy. If they
accept I give them Usagiuma's
address.

Tim

Anat Amitay
01-17-2002, 09:21 AM
Originally posted by Tim Griffiths


Normally, of course, I just issue a
challenge to the death. If they wimp
out then they're not worthy. If they
accept I give them Usagiuma's
address.

Tim

never let it be said that I am not humble

Well.... :p

But I rather live for a few more years so I will not comment more on the subject!;)

And as for a challenge to the death, for all that don't know Tim, take my advice- wimp out! ;)

And for all those who didn't understand- this is just a joke between friends and in no way a measure of insuting- just a comment on all that's been said, answered and taken as an offence in this forum.

Anat