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dps
11-02-2007, 05:20 AM
Is the universe and nature harmonious and peaceful? When you look at the stars at night do you see harmony and peace. In the forest, desert, lakes and oceans do the creatures that live there do so in a nonviolent way with each other?

David

nekobaka
11-02-2007, 07:54 AM
reality is what you make it. I choose peace and harmony, but not everyone sees it that way.

roadster
11-02-2007, 08:52 AM
IMO there is balance, but harmony and peace, not so
much. The universe was born in and still is in chaos.
From a very outside perspective you can see it in many
different ways. We are born to die. In the physical
realm, we are flawed. Be it because we are born in sin
as the bible says, or be it that we have not tuned
ourselves into enlightenment as Buddhists believe.

Like us, the universe is dying, and transforming.
There has to be a balance somewhere or it just
wouldn’t work at all.

How much of us is in the realm of real harmony,
balance, and peace I don’t know. But it exists.

Just my opinion on the matter. I am by no means a seasoned Aikidoka.

xuzen
11-02-2007, 09:04 AM
Is the universe and nature harmonious and peaceful? When you look at the stars at night do you see harmony and peace. In the forest, desert, lakes and oceans do the creatures that live there do so in a nonviolent way with each other?

David

When I am swirling a glass of Henessy XO while smoking a Cuban, sitting at my pateo with wife while listening to Eric Clapman... I see harmony and peaceful in everything.

When my sales report is due tomorrow and I just got back at 10pm while entertaining a client, the peace and harmony things get shove out the window.

Boon.

George S. Ledyard
11-02-2007, 11:37 AM
Is the universe and nature harmonious and peaceful? When you look at the stars at night do you see harmony and peace. In the forest, desert, lakes and oceans do the creatures that live there do so in a nonviolent way with each other?

David
The whole issue depends on your point of view... In the larger sense the whole Universe is in a balance in which every piece is connected to every other piece.

Yet, the whole is made up of component parts which are constantly being created and uncreated in the sense that there is nothing which isn't changing form all of the time. Nothing is static or unchanging.

So from the limited human perspective which is fragile and transitory in the extreme, it all seems incredibly violent. But that is within our own hearts not really a reflection of what is. It is an emotional reaction of fear that comes from attachment, an attempt to find permanence where there is none.

Spiritual practice is largely about trying to come to terms with this issue. In the end "harmony" is how you describe what is out there but "peace" needs to be in your heart. It's how you choose to relate to the constant change which is a fact of existence.

Allen Beebe
11-02-2007, 01:58 PM
The whole issue depends on your point of view... In the larger sense the whole Universe is in a balance in which every piece is connected to every other piece.

Yet, the whole is made up of component parts which are constantly being created and uncreated in the sense that there is nothing which isn't changing form all of the time. Nothing is static or unchanging.

So from the limited human perspective which is fragile and transitory in the extreme, it all seems incredibly violent. But that is within our own hearts not really a reflection of what is. It is an emotional reaction of fear that comes from attachment, an attempt to find permanence where there is none.

Spiritual practice is largely about trying to come to terms with this issue. In the end "harmony" is how you describe what is out there but "peace" needs to be in your heart. It's how you choose to relate to the constant change which is a fact of existence.

Yes . . . and still it is perhaps best if one guards against even this becoming an extreme view that can potentially allow for, or excuse, the worst potentials of human behavior in a way similar to those adopting the reverse view in the extreme. In other words, if I create suffering in the name of "truth" or if I create suffering because, in the end, there is no "ultimate truth," I've still created suffering.

Will Prusner
11-02-2007, 02:38 PM
Somebody said to me and it made alot of sense:

"There are two options, either we are physical beings having a spiritual experience or we are spiritual beings having a physical experience."

I read once in a book about the chaos theory that within any system of organization, there is an underlying chaos, and within that underlying chaos, an even more profoundly disturbing system of organization. And so on and so on, amen.

In the Art of War, Sun Tzu proposes that the only surefire method of controlling one's own mind is to realize that in times of violence there will follow a time of peace, and in times of peace there will follow a time of violence.

I believe that I create my "reality" on a moment to moment basis and how I perceive that reality is dependant on my internal condition. The world is unfolding exactly as it should, if I see a problem with it, then that is my problem, not the world's, and if I want to change it, then the change should be exacted within myself.
Who am I to offer suggestions for improvement on perferction? I just don't know enough to. The cosmos far too large and myself far too small and ignorant.

Jonathan
11-02-2007, 04:12 PM
Is the universe and nature harmonious and peaceful? When you look at the stars at night do you see harmony and peace. In the forest, desert, lakes and oceans do the creatures that live there do so in a nonviolent way with each other?

When I look at the stars at night I see countless points of light. They remind me of how tiny, and insignificant I am in the vast expanse of the universe. Its a good reminder not to take myself too seriously; in the grand context of the universe none of us is really that important.

I dunno' about the universe, but I've watched enough animal specials on Discovery Channel to know that there is plenty of violence in the forests, deserts, lakes and oceans of our world. Ever watch a pride of lions chow down on a zebra? Or witness a crocodile snatch a wildebeest from the shore of a river? Or see a shark chomp a chunk out of a tuna? Whoohoo! "Nature" is nothing if not brutal and violent (of course it isn't only these things).

Why do you ask?

Jon.

Erick Mead
11-03-2007, 08:29 AM
I believe that I create my "reality" on a moment to moment basis and how I perceive that reality is dependant on my internal condition. I am reminded of a dramatized portrayal of an interview of a historic person, along the lines of Steve Allen's "Meeting of the Minds." (dates me I suppose).

Asked by the interviewer, if he ascribed to the Eastern way of thinking about reality and truth he said,

"What? You mean the idea that reality is not really real? It's all an illusion? --- They dodge spears, don't they?"

SeiserL
11-03-2007, 01:28 PM
IMHO, harmonious does not necessarily mean nonviolent as illustrated in nature. When it is appropriate to be violent, then do so with just enough to get the job done. When the job is over, be a peace.

dps
11-04-2007, 06:15 AM
The Ki ( energy or spirit ) of the universe at work creating .....

.http://www.seds.org/HST/M16Full.html

...and destroying

http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn10925-pillars-of-creation-destroyed-by-supernova.html

In our Aikido if we are to harmonize with this Ki do we not have to accept both sides of what the Ki is doing, creation and destruction.
David

Erick Mead
11-04-2007, 07:38 AM
The Ki ( energy or spirit ) of the universe at work creating .....

.http://www.seds.org/HST/M16Full.html

...and destroying

http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn10925-pillars-of-creation-destroyed-by-supernova.html

In our Aikido if we are to harmonize with this Ki do we not have to accept both sides of what the Ki is doing, creation and destruction.
DavidWell truth to be told in your metaphor -- destruction is inherent in creation as creation is inherent in destruction -- IF they occur in their natural order. The elements composing our bodies were quite literally born the death spasms of collapsing and exploding stars.

The trick of it all is, of course, first perceiving and then adhering to the natural order in which creation and destruction synthesize to new creation. In Aiki, as in all warfare, the will to attack must be thoroughly and irrevocably destroyed, even while the entry into the arena of destruction is complete. If this spiritual destruction is not accepted, physical destruction begins, because that rejection is out of the natural order. However, the creativity that flows from acceptance of that destruction is nearly infinite.

Haruo Matsuoka made an especially interesting statement in light of your metaphor and my extension of it:

"Aiki is not rejection or resistance, but fusion."

dps
11-04-2007, 08:35 AM
Creation and destruction is the results of the natural work of the energy of the Universe. I don't see how we can harmonize with the results, we harmonize with the energy.

Do we control that energy or does the energy control us? Do we flow with this energy of creation and destruction or do we direct it?

David

Mark Uttech
11-04-2007, 08:52 PM
Even the peaceful glow of a candle flame is caused by tiny explosions going off in the center of the flame.

In gassho,

Mark

Erick Mead
11-04-2007, 10:47 PM
Creation and destruction is the results of the natural work of the energy of the Universe. I don't see how we can harmonize with the results, we harmonize with the energy. Creation/destruction IS the natural energy of the universe. Entropy salvaged by novelty. Rescue destruction with preemptive creativity. Temper creativity by destroying impossible fantasy.

Do we control that energy or does the energy control us? Do we flow with this energy of creation and destruction or do we direct it?Respectively - yes and yes. And not necessarily, and hardly ever.

I do not create the wave. I do not control the wave. I only control my relationship to the wave.

Josh Reyer
11-04-2007, 11:17 PM
There is no spoon.

dps
11-05-2007, 04:36 AM
I do not create the wave. I do not control the wave. I only control my relationship to the wave.

You ride the wave wherever it takes you.

David

Josh Reyer
11-05-2007, 05:40 AM
You ride the wave wherever it takes you.

David

Ueshiba Morihei would say, "Be the wave."

Will Prusner
11-05-2007, 10:06 AM
This conversation makes me want to go surfing.

Kevin Leavitt
11-11-2007, 08:54 AM
"All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz and I'm fine." Jeff Spicoli

Eugene Leslie
01-21-2010, 01:28 PM
To be or not to be a nihilist: that is the question.

Eugene Leslie
01-21-2010, 11:25 PM
Some species of ants make war.

There are no athiests in foxholes.

Eugene Leslie
01-22-2010, 10:25 AM
You can tune a piano but you can't tuna fish.

cguzik
01-22-2010, 11:59 AM
Do we control that energy or does the energy control us? Do we flow with this energy of creation and destruction or do we direct it?


You ride the wave wherever it takes you.

You *are* the wave.

mathewjgano
01-22-2010, 01:52 PM
You can tune a piano but you can't tuna fish.
http://www.accordo.it/upload/1143937527/redux-fish_guitar.jpg

Eugene Leslie
01-22-2010, 11:06 PM
You got me there Mr. Gano!!!:D