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Angela Dunn
09-20-2007, 09:08 AM
I hope I am posting this in the right part of the forumn and it is okay to link to other forumns , please forgive me if I am not and accept my appologies.

In an aikido community I am in on another site (Live journal of all places!) came a post that made me go wtf?

Who has heard of Aikiom Aikido? I admit I am not familiar with the many styles of aikido as there is so many diffrent styles but this sounds a bit....well odd to say the least.

The founders Ernst Niedermayr and Markus Celedin would not appear to special untill the claims

Aikiom-Aikido is the channeled and spiritual advancement from the normal aikido, which was transmitted by the founder Morihei Ueshiba himself to Markus Celedin and Ernst Niedermayr.
Aikiom aikido is an advanced and more efficient form of aikido, which also contains forgotten and missunderstood elements.[...]

The full post which flags up this style of aikido, Complete with further translated quotes and info is http://community.livejournal.com/aikido/240168.html
(posted with permision from the OP.)

Is it just me or do these claims seem highly disrespectful and even dangerous if people are took in by them? Or is it inevitable that individuals and dojos like these are going to exist and the best thing is to ignore them and let them get on with it.

Would be intrested in opinions from older, wiser and more advanced aikido types.

Dirk Hanss
09-20-2007, 09:34 AM
Angela,
yes I already heard of them, as they tried to market their organisation in a german speaking aikido forum. After a few questions about what it is really, the thread died.

I don't know, if it is really fraud, probably they just found their own description of "enlightment".

It does not sound really serious, but I don't think it is dangerous to get in there. Not more than paying some amount for an insurance you do not need.

Hopefully they are at least on average skilled teachers and their students just pay a little bit mor than necessary and get some weird ideas.

I really wonder, why someone deliberately tries to add misunderstood techniques to the syllabus

It is a good idea to get back closer to O sensei and wear white hakama instead of black ones - an important difference to existing aikido.

If someone is curious enough to attend some of their seminars, she/he could tell us a little bit more about their qualities.

Cheers

Dirk

Hebrew Hammer
09-24-2007, 01:11 AM
Uh...how much are dues?

mathewjgano
09-24-2007, 01:40 PM
I really wonder, why someone deliberately tries to add misunderstood techniques to the syllabus
Dirk

Sounds like a sound marketing strategy to me :yuck:

SeiserL
09-24-2007, 02:27 PM
Wow man, I wished I had thought of that. LOL
The only thing O'Sensei told me in a dream was the train wiser.
Guess he likes these guys better.
IMHO, let it go and get back to your own training.

ChrisMoses
09-24-2007, 03:06 PM
Larry Barrish made similar claims in his interview in Aikido in America (http://www.amazon.com/Aikido-America-Io-No-52/dp/1883319277). If I remember correctly, he learned Aikido 'directly' from OSensei by training with his spirit in his dreams... I believe these guys about as much.

mathewjgano
09-24-2007, 07:26 PM
Larry Barrish made similar claims in his interview in Aikido in America (http://www.amazon.com/Aikido-America-Io-No-52/dp/1883319277). If I remember correctly, he learned Aikido 'directly' from OSensei by training with his spirit in his dreams... I believe these guys about as much.

Personally, i take the agnostic approach when it comes to claims of spiritual/supernatural experiences, but there's something to be said for lucid dreaming at the very least. Of course, I am a student of Barrish sensei, but I've heard crazier sounding beliefs asserted which are more widely accepted, so to me such things don't seem so strange when put into that context.
Maybe these folks experienced something super cool and maybe they're just selling something. My issues start to form when I see people claim "inside" knowledge for sale at high prices.

philippe willaume
09-25-2007, 04:14 AM
Personally, i take the agnostic approach when it comes to claims of spiritual/supernatural experiences, but there's something to be said for lucid dreaming at the very least.

yes you are right I think there is something to be said about lucid dreaming. something along the line of
self delusion, megalomania, mild case of pschycose, delirium tremens, hallucinogenic mushrooms.

sure it is possible but the chances of it it being true are about the the same as "you see doctor, I was vaccum cleaning in the nude when i fell over backward right ontop of the grocery basket..." being the actual depiction of how the carrot ended up there.

most of the time, it is a variation of the old master on the mountains that taught no one but me mac-dojo old trick

mathewjgano
09-25-2007, 04:26 PM
yes you are right I think there is something to be said about lucid dreaming. something along the line of
self delusion, megalomania, mild case of pschycose, delirium tremens, hallucinogenic mushrooms.

That's talking about something quite different from lucid dreaming. Lucid dreaming is merely the act of being aware that you are in a dream-state and exerting control over your dreams. If someone learns something about Aikido in a lucid dream, cool! If they think they learned it from Osensei's spirit, who am I to judge? If all those other things are involved, yeah, go somewhere else. But having a lucid dream and believing something which could potentially be false about it doesn't necessarily equate to hallucinogenic mushrooms and megalomania.