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tedehara
08-31-2007, 06:35 PM
Got this from Aikido-L.

Apparently the monks from Shaolin Temple became insulted when a Japan-based user posted that a ninja defeated all the monks in unarmed combat.

You can read about it at:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/31/kung_fu_monks/

It came from a Reuters article here:
http://www.reuters.com/article/internetNews/idUSPEK26932820070831

I guess a good troll can upset anyone. Even if you have years of meditation and martial arts training.

Walker
08-31-2007, 06:51 PM
Bwa ha ha ha. Fake Ninjas pissing off Fake Monks in a make believe electronic construct.

Typical... :cool:

Cady Goldfield
08-31-2007, 07:49 PM
That sums it up concisely, Doug.
Any real taoist monks that were in existance were wiped out or "reeducated" in the Cultural Revolution, and whatever MAs they practiced were probably pretty much wiped out as well.

The monks there now are about as authentic as any "reincarnated Dalai Lama" the Chinese gummint picks out for the Tibetans after the current one passes on...

Tim Fong
08-31-2007, 09:34 PM
I can't say anything either way about the quality of the religious instruction that the monks receive.

But I can say that that the monks I met and trained with (a tiny bit) were very , very good martial artists. They did the modern wushu sets as well as some traditional northern and southern conditioning sets. And also, sanda. They are probably better martial artists than most of the people reading this board will ever be.

Mike Sigman
08-31-2007, 09:38 PM
That sums it up concisely, Doug.
Any real taoist monks that were in existance were wiped out or "reeducated" in the Cultural Revolution, and whatever MAs they practiced were probably pretty much wiped out as well.

The monks there now are about as authentic as any "reincarnated Dalai Lama" the Chinese gummint picks out for the Tibetans after the current one passes on...Er, Cady..... Shaolin is the Buddhist Temple; the antithesis (to hear them tell it) of Taoism. That was one hell of a reeducation, indeed.

Most of the so-called "Shaolin Monks" are just lay martial-arts guys that train around the Shaolin Temple and they're not really religious monks. Even though during the Cultural Revolution all martial arts practice was suspended as evil, some of the traditional stuff was practiced secretly and more of it is supposedly being reborn (so I hear). I know that a lot of famous martial artists died during the Cultural Revolution.... they were reeducated at all.

Best.

Mike

tedehara
09-01-2007, 01:38 AM
My understanding is that there is a Wushu Academy near Shaolin Temple, however the monks in the temple are Buddhist. Not all the Shaolin monks practice martial arts. However those that do practice see it as an expression of their devotion to Buddhism. There was a break in the tradition due to the Cultural Revolution, but those that practice now are excellent, as Tim Fong has described.

What really strikes me is this common resentment against the Japanese because of WWII. The denial by the Japanese of the military atrocities has created a popular feeling of resentment in Asia. They need to reverse this or that feeling may flare up into open anger.

Cady Goldfield
09-01-2007, 10:10 AM
Yah, brain fart, whatever. Been a long week. ;) Mainly what I was trying to say is that the Cultural Revolution did a lot of damage to MAs and all other cultural activities, so whatever is happening at the temple today is likely to be a modern construct...

Er, Cady..... Shaolin is the Buddhist Temple; the antithesis (to hear them tell it) of Taoism. That was one hell of a reeducation, indeed.

Most of the so-called "Shaolin Monks" are just lay martial-arts guys that train around the Shaolin Temple and they're not really religious monks. Even though during the Cultural Revolution all martial arts practice was suspended as evil, some of the traditional stuff was practiced secretly and more of it is supposedly being reborn (so I hear). I know that a lot of famous martial artists died during the Cultural Revolution.... they were reeducated at all.

Best.

Mike

Cady Goldfield
09-01-2007, 11:18 AM
Heh. Here's something interesting from shaolin.com --

Description of the Temples
There were 5 main temples at the height of the Shaolin order, though all 5 temples were rarely active at the same time. (See MAP)

Henan: This is "the" Shaolin temple seen in Chinese kung fu movies, and the one portrayed in the ABC-TV "Kung Fu" series of the 1970s. The physical premises, located in Loyang, a small mountain town southwest of Beijing, have been restored by the Chinese government in the mid 1970s (the temple was destroyed as a result of the Boxer Rebellion of 1901, but probably not until the late 1920s), and subsequently become a tourist/martial arts Mecca. Most of the resident "monks" seen today are actors, similar to the people you would meet in Colonial Williamsburg and other historical sites. During most of its history, Henan Temple was the seat of the most senior monks in the Shaolin Order.

[snip]

I saw another site that referred to the monks as "defending their brand." When a martial art from an alleged religious order becomes a "brand," you know you're dealing with a commodity, not a precious tradition. ;)

jennifer paige smith
09-03-2007, 01:44 PM
[snip]
I saw another site that referred to the monks as "defending their brand." When a martial art from an alleged religious order becomes a "brand," you know you're dealing with a commodity, not a precious tradition. ;)

Or perhaps a 'precious commodity' in relativity.

Cady Goldfield
09-03-2007, 03:10 PM
I think the "precious" in this case relates to the $$$ that come in from eager tourist-martial artists from abroad. ;)

tedehara
09-03-2007, 10:18 PM
I think the "precious" in this case relates to the $$$ that come in from eager tourist-martial artists from abroad. ;)Not to mention the fact that they tour the USA every once in a while. If you have a chance to catch their show, you might whistle a different tune. If not, you can always rent the DVD. :)

Cady Goldfield
09-04-2007, 07:09 AM
I'm not saying that what they do ain't cool. Just that it's a government cash cow and perhaps even a franchise, reinstated BY the government, FOR the government. ;)

Mark Freeman
09-04-2007, 12:38 PM
I think the "precious" in this case relates to the $$$ that come in from eager tourist-martial artists from abroad. ;)

I think you'll find that the vast majority of the people training on the ouside of the Shaolin temple are home grown, many many of them. If you want a job in the 'personal protection industry' having a certificate from the Shaolin certainly improves your earning capacity. No doubt there are overseas visitors, but they are way outnumbered by locals.

regards,

Mark

Cady Goldfield
09-04-2007, 06:23 PM
It's still a big business, mate. ;)
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4159/is_20050814/ai_n14883952