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Joseph Aaron
08-31-2007, 01:10 PM
Having not praticed aikido before I'm and worried about rolling because I cannot do it at all (lol). Is there any advicr you can give me.

Joseph Aaron

grondahl
08-31-2007, 01:34 PM
Actually, you already have to be good at aikido to be allowed in to a dojo. No keiko for you! (shouted in soup-nazi-voice);)

Dont worry, nobody knows how to take ukemi before they start to train. The purpose of training is to learn aikido and ukemi is a vital part of it. I have yet to see a dojo that doesn´t put a lot of effort to make sure that new members learn proper ukemi.

Janet Rosen
08-31-2007, 01:57 PM
Be patient w/ yourself.
I was the kid who flunked somersaults at day camp....decades later when I took up aikido at age 41, I managed to train for at least 3 months before I TRIED a forward roll. There is a lot you can do with simply learning footwork, simple rolling back and up then progressing to back rolls (easier for many of us than forward rolls, but YMMV), especially if the dojo you are at does a lot of suwariwaza (kneeling technique) so you are really just learning to safely gently fall over at first.

dps
08-31-2007, 08:30 PM
Having not praticed aikido before I'm and worried about rolling because I cannot do it at all (lol). Is there any advicr you can give me.

Joseph Aaron
Think round. Image yourself as a round ball rolling along the floor.

David

tarik
08-31-2007, 11:55 PM
Having not praticed aikido before I'm and worried about rolling because I cannot do it at all (lol). Is there any advicr you can give me.

Find a good teacher; practice with attention to detail.

Regards,

Joseph Aaron
09-01-2007, 07:02 AM
Thanks guys You have really put my mind at rest although I'm a bit pevved about not even being allowed to train, peter! Boy I didm't know an aikido dojo was such an exclusive club. Do you guys have a social club? lol

Dewey
09-01-2007, 07:03 AM
Don't worry about it. It comes with time & practice...like every technique. I'm relatively new to Aikido myself and I still struggle with ukemi. However, I'm getting better. Just don't rush it...be patient. The single most important thing to remember is to not take a fall unless you're comfortable with it and you have been given plenty of hands-on instruction on how to do it correctly. Contrary to what a lot of Aikido detractors claim, Aikido can be a very dangerous martial art. You can easily break any of your limbs or even your neck if you fall on them wrong.

Your profile states that you're still deciding upon a dojo. If that's still true, then be sure to shop all local dojo. Be sure to look for two things:

1) Is safety emphasized and is it observed? Does it look they're learning a technique, or does it look like they're trying to "show off" and/or hurt each other?

2) Observe the students' behaviour. Do they look like they're enjoying themselves? Do they appear to be scared of the instructor or some of the other students?

Chances are, if by observing a certain dojo and you feel uncomfortable just watching, then that's probably not the place for you to begin your training. The dojo class you observe where you just can't wait to step on the mat and join in is the place you need to be! Trust your instincts.

Jess McDonald
09-01-2007, 10:19 PM
I also have a hard time with ukemi, especially the forward roll. I feel way more comfortable with back rolls or side falls.
You know what fall scares me the most- the high fall!! At my new dojo they all can do high falls; I haven't even attempted one! Should one ask to be taught how to take a high fall or you should wait to be taught it? Sorry for asking a question in your thread J. Aaron; hopefully, you we're thinking of the same thing.:) ;)

dps
09-02-2007, 03:44 PM
I also have a hard time with ukemi, especially the forward roll. I feel way more comfortable with back rolls or side falls.
You know what fall scares me the most- the high fall!! At my new dojo they all can do high falls; I haven't even attempted one! Should one ask to be taught how to take a high fall or you should wait to be taught it? Sorry for asking a question in your thread J. Aaron; hopefully, you we're thinking of the same thing.:) ;)

Jess,
Next time you see someone do a "high fall" don't look at how high their feet are in the air, notice how close their head is to the ground.

David

Dewey
09-02-2007, 05:46 PM
[cut/edit]
...Should one ask to be taught how to take a high fall or you should wait to be taught it? Sorry for asking a question in your thread J. Aaron; hopefully, you we're thinking of the same thing.:) ;)

Absolutely. Never be bashful about asking. I found out the hard way. I was at a seminar where they were doing hip throws...and I wasn't comfortable yet with high falls yet. Short of it was, I really did a number on my shoulder...took a good week for it to heal. If I didn't have enough sense to sit out the rest of the seminar, I would have seriously injured myself. In the end...you know your own limits. You need to take care of you.

Tijani1150
09-03-2007, 12:23 AM
2 main things

protect your head

&

push with the back leg

I personaly still have not perfected my ukemi since the teaching staff in my dojo always point out that my arm collapses when it shouldn't I wish I can tape my self and see where I fault.

Erik Jögimar
09-15-2007, 09:20 AM
2 main things

protect your head

&

push with the back leg

I personaly still have not perfected my ukemi since the teaching staff in my dojo always point out that my arm collapses when it shouldn't I wish I can tape my self and see where I fault.

I have serious issues with ukemi, especially back rolls, but forward are easier. Put one hand so it points behind you, on the opposite side shoulder of the one you're rolling over. Then put the other one as support, so the fingertips meet. I cant do it one handed yet.

wayneth
09-17-2007, 06:48 AM
In my opinion, ukemi is something which can only come over time. That is with practice and learning it at your own pace, rather than people trying to throw you across the mat and you can't even ukemi yet. In other words your training partner (whatever level) should always come down to you and not the other way around.
I remember reading Kisshomaru Doshus book once and in it, he stated that ukemi will take a minimum of 3 years before a basic understanding is achieved (something like that anyway?)
wayne

charyuop
09-18-2007, 07:08 AM
Hi. I am failry new to Aikido (like 9 months) and yes Ukemi takes time to be learnt. I still have hard times taking forward rolls above all like following techniques like Kaiten Nage where I do not know from the beginning where I am thrown, but I am forced to follow the flowing of the movements.

When time comes to learn forward rolls you will probably start from your knees to move later on from standing position. Do not watch too many videos of Aikido where you see already expert Uke taking rolls. In a dojo Sensei or the nage throwing you will know you are a beginner and will give you time to get ready and take your fall at your pace. You will find many things that will make things hard to roll, but the main thing (for most beginners) will be fear...either you know it or not.
You have to learn to trust your body and not doubt it. Hesitation and tension will make things harder. Visualize yourself rolling and don't think about anything else. Follow the direction of your Sensei and don't think about broken neck or bad things coz they won't happen. Pain in the beginning will be normal also coz some muscles that take part to the rolling "game" need to get used to it.
One of the best suggestions that was given to me was to look where I am going. Like when you walk you just look where you go and don't think about the steps you take, so in a roll think about the final destination and put all your intent into it.

Jess, I was scared about high falls too. The idea of having to take a roll without "being a ball" where I know I have a free hand always available to put near my head if I need really terrified me.
One day Sensei was throwing me with Kotegaeshi and he started doing it faster and harder beyond the point I could take it on purpose. He suddenly stopped and told me the next kotegaeshi to turn with my center and take a high fall (giving me the details on how to do it). PANIC! But I tried anyway without esitations and didn't go that bad. I landed a little bit too much on the center of my back instead of the side, but I didn't even realize I was doing it. Sensei told me that unfortunately the best way to learn high falls is the hard way in a technique and I agree. There are exercises to learn, but doing it while keeping up with a kotegaeshi or another technique will lead you in doing it without thinking about it...not time to stop or to hesitate.

Stephen Webb
09-29-2007, 10:45 PM
First of all, first post. Hi all.

Joseph,

If I recall, I didn't actually take ukemi from a live throw until my third practice. For a while nobody will throw you terribly hard, but after maybe a month or two of regular practice, a good nage will be able to throw you at the edge of your comfort level. You won't improve unless someone pushes you.

I was fortunate enough to spend the first few months at my new dojo practicing in small practices with very high-ranking people. I've been going for about a year and a half now, and I'm doing breakfalls (although admittedly poorly), and I would say that my rolling is almost like walking to me.

Just be willing to be pushed beyond comfort, and your ukemi will come along surprisingly fast.

Dathan Camacho
09-30-2007, 08:15 AM
If your instructor has a very conservative approach to ukemi, i.e. he or she has you sit in seiza and put your shoulder on the mat and look behind you and then roll from seiza, then trust your instructor. They are conservative enough that you won't get hurt.

However, some very good instructors (or sempai) may let YOU judge what YOU are ready for. They may teach ukemi to the entire class and ask if you feel ready to try it. Trust your instincts. Don't let your ego prevent you from saying no if your gut is telling you that you're not up to it. 5 years from now it won't matter whether you learned a technique at 2 months or at 6 months into your aikido journey. I learned this the hard way trying to learn breakfalls before I'd really learned rolls. :rolleyes: :D

Matthew White
10-19-2007, 09:17 PM
First off. Everybody here has all the best wishes for you to succeed. Having said that, don't take any specific instructions from the (i.e. how to do rolls). We are not your teacher. We do not know you physical capabilities. We do not know your emotional constraints. Every instructor has their own way to teach; every style of aikido has their own way of rolling. Take instruction from your instructor. That's his responsibility.

Secondly, I'd like to restate something Mr. Dewey said. His statement was, "The single most important thing to remember is to not take a fall unless you're comfortable with it and you have been given plenty of hands-on instruction on how to do it correctly."
You should never try to "stop taking a fall". That's a good way to get hurt. When you see a technique that requires a fall you are not comfortable with, speak with your instructor and voice your concerns.
It is your instructor's job to push you beyond your comfort zone. That is something completely different from endangerment. You're going to have to understand the difference between the two, and if you don't, again, talk to the instructor about it.

Good luck, it's an amazing ride!

Dunken Francis
10-22-2007, 01:27 PM
You'll be fine. Just take it easy and don't try any heroics first few weeks!!
have a look at www.youtube.com/aiki33 (http://youtube.com/aiki33) - slo-mo the ukemi clips and at least you'll be able to see the shape that you're after!

Erik Jögimar
10-22-2007, 01:49 PM
I'm up on my second month of practicing aikido and its just now that when we've started with a couple of exercises and techniques that involve forward rolling that i feel i got a good hang of it.

Kaitennage when done really slowly, is a good way to practice
forward rolls, especially since you basically stand with your nose
on the mat. All you do is put your arm, shaped as a wheel, with blade of your hand on the mat by your side and slowly roll over.

At first it really does have a please-come-help-me feeling, but the more you do it, the more secure you get, and the more natural the rolls come. So no hurries. You'll roll like a pro in no time :)

Marie Noelle Fequiere
10-22-2007, 02:13 PM
I've been practicing for a year, and I am just beginning to feel comfortable with mae kemi. Constant practice is the simplest and best answer. I've been coming to the dojo almost every day for the past two month, including days when there is no class, and I come back late Saturday morning, after the class. I cannot believe how much I have improved. Practice as often as you can, until you get dizzy, or you feel your stomach rebelling. You just need to get used to it at your own pace. Remember, you mother spent years telling you that falling was bad, and now, you need to undo that. It's not going to happen in one day. Push with your back foot, and "extend" your fall instead of trying to fall right in front of you. You will roll more easily, instead of landing on your shoulder.
I've been told that one of our black belts used to whine like a baby at the prospect of falling when he was a beginner. You would never have guessed it, when you see hin taking flight after a kotegaeshi.
We've all been there, be patient and consistent, and you will do it.

Walter Martindale
10-23-2007, 03:37 AM
After practicing for a few years you'll find that ukemi is second nature. I've tripped while running, rolled, kept running, and then realised what had happened. Same thing over the handlebars of a bicycle - no road rash.
Patience and heaps of practice.
W

Angela Dunn
10-23-2007, 05:57 AM
First off all don't panic. Any good instructor will make sure you can do these safely before throwing you into the lions den as it were. You will not be expected to know how to do them the second you walk into the dojo , all you can do is your best.

Saying that I still have trouble with them and tend to favour one side even if its not the side I am meant ot roll on :)

Make sure you listen to your instructor as they are the ones who are teaching you. And learn from others mistakes on forward rolls go over your shoulder instead of landing on your head and you will be fine.

Erik Jögimar
10-23-2007, 06:46 AM
First off all don't panic. Any good instructor will make sure you can do these safely before throwing you into the lions den as it were. You will not be expected to know how to do them the second you walk into the dojo , all you can do is your best.

Saying that I still have trouble with them and tend to favour one side even if its not the side I am meant ot roll on :)

Make sure you listen to your instructor as they are the ones who are teaching you. And learn from others mistakes on forward rolls go over your shoulder instead of landing on your head and you will be fine.

Owie! I did that misstake when i did my first backroll. I got head stuck between mat and shoulders. I tried rolling straight backwards instead of over the shoulder. Damn that hurt.

Angela Dunn
10-23-2007, 05:05 PM
Owie! I did that misstake when i did my first backroll. I got head stuck between mat and shoulders. I tried rolling straight backwards instead of over the shoulder. Damn that hurt.

Me to! at least once a session! Lucky theres a guy in my class that knows how to treat that type of injury :)

Erik Jögimar
10-24-2007, 12:32 AM
Me to! at least once a session! Lucky theres a guy in my class that knows how to treat that type of injury :)

That's good :D

I bet you got that horrid cracking sound too ;)

Angela Dunn
10-24-2007, 05:04 AM
That's good :D

I bet you got that horrid cracking sound too ;)

Not really , well not anymore, I guess I am getting better at rolling somewhat correctly!

Jane
10-25-2007, 10:31 AM
Keep your body in the shape of a ball by looking at your center; it'll help.
Remember that ushiro ukemi and mae ukemi are symetrical; hand position, leg position, triangular stance... I started with ushiro and this, along with visualizing myself doing ukemi, helped a lot!
Never give up, even if you hear badump-badump-badump! In my case, it took me 1 year to do 1 mae-ukemi and it still is not correct.
Oh, and as Sensei always says: "Steal the sempai's technique!"
Watch the more experienced sempais and take advice from them.

Erik Jögimar
10-25-2007, 02:33 PM
Keep your body in the shape of a ball by looking at your center; it'll help.
Remember that ushiro ukemi and mae ukemi are symetrical; hand position, leg position, triangular stance... I started with ushiro and this, along with visualizing myself doing ukemi, helped a lot!
Never give up, even if you hear badump-badump-badump! In my case, it took me 1 year to do 1 mae-ukemi and it still is not correct.
Oh, and as Sensei always says: "Steal the sempai's technique!"
Watch the more experienced sempais and take advice from them.

I'm still ungraded (Iwama) so it might be why, but i've heard of this triangle thing on and off in aikido circiuts, but never really learned much about it yet. what i learned from Mae ukemi is to stand in hanmi and roll, at least to help roll in a straight line. I think we've been chasing our sempais enough with our less-then-straight-rolls ;)

Ushiro ukemi i always do by folding one leg, from standing, under my arse and roll backwards, holding one arm in a wheel-ish form by the other should as if rolling forward.

If i'm blind about the triangle thing, my apologies. could you explain a bit what the triangle thing is?

//Erik

Jamie_Macc
11-08-2007, 08:04 AM
[QUOTE=David Skaggs;188363]Think round. Image yourself as a round ball rolling along the floor.

Yes, i totally agree aikido is all about circles.
You'll get the hang of it.
Where abouts in the UK are you?

Jamie

grondahl
11-08-2007, 08:51 AM
Hanmi is a triangular stance ;) And your dojo is btw affiliated to Aikikai.

I'm still ungraded (Iwama) so it might be why, but i've heard of this triangle thing on and off in aikido circiuts, but never really learned much about it yet. If i'm blind about the triangle thing, my apologies. could you explain a bit what the triangle thing is?

Erik Jögimar
11-08-2007, 01:42 PM
Hanmi is a triangular stance ;) And your dojo is btw affiliated to Aikikai.

Actually we're both Iwama and Aikikai. Iwama ryu aikido
merged with Aikikai. there's something in the document section of Aikido section of LBK's website on this.

edshockley
11-12-2007, 07:40 AM
I think we are wise to be fearful of ukemi. I have seen yudansha take bad falls and on ocassion injure themselves. (Kaiken nage seems especially dangerous.) Technical advise is best received from someone in your dojo observing your habits but injury is less likely in all cases when one uses the opening meditation to focus entirely on the task at hand. Things like taking inventory of ones body (what are is tight today), noticing peculiarites about the practice area (has a mat separated in the left corner), assessing the training partners (here's the new guy who is cross training for ultimate fighting) etc. Take each throw as if it is the only one and you are likely to "escape" successfully.

charyuop
11-13-2007, 02:30 PM
Owie! I did that misstake when i did my first backroll. I got head stuck between mat and shoulders. I tried rolling straight backwards instead of over the shoulder. Damn that hurt.

I have never had that accident, but I had my share of Ukemi accidents. Once Sensei got me so worn out (oops...doesn't sound that good the way I put it sorry) that at one of the very last front rolls I lost all my form and pancaked on my shoulder with the body folding onto it (and I weight 230 Lb.). Result, bruised ribs that hurt for several weeks.
As backrol I can remember only one incident. I don't recall the technique, but I was falling backwards with Sensei behind me pulling me down. I took Ukemi and my head went streight onto his knee. That made me realize that I actually can't control yet Ukemi, but I fall as a programmed robot...same place same procedure. In fact the usual Ukemi didn't work in that case and my head bent forward more than it usually does...big pain.

Erik Jögimar
11-14-2007, 03:43 AM
I think we are wise to be fearful of ukemi. I have seen yudansha take bad falls and on ocassion injure themselves. (Kaiken nage seems especially dangerous.) Technical advise is best received from someone in your dojo observing your habits but injury is less likely in all cases when one uses the opening meditation to focus entirely on the task at hand. Things like taking inventory of ones body (what are is tight today), noticing peculiarites about the practice area (has a mat separated in the left corner), assessing the training partners (here's the new guy who is cross training for ultimate fighting) etc. Take each throw as if it is the only one and you are likely to "escape" successfully.

Yeah kaitenage is a funny one, for me. Last week we practiced it, and nage did it perfectly save for getting a very ackwardly tight angly. It made rolling difficult, and ended up rolling on one side of my body instead of diagonaly over arm then back. A really good warmup is a lifesaver. Didnt think that much of it at first, but now i really appreciate the warmup drills.

Mato-san
11-14-2007, 09:18 AM
know your limits...let nage know your limits and if you are keen give nage the go ahead to push your limits... Aikido is give and take..... and most important co-operation.... Ukemi is a wonderful thing and for me the most important part of my training. I will take huge, hard ukemi, especially for newcomers just to welcome them.

But don`t take ukemi lightly...
pun intended!

Ukemi will take longer to learn than the techniques, don`t rush it.
Kiyotsukete!