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nikonl
11-30-2001, 12:10 AM
I have a friend in school who just joined another MA. I asked her why she didn't want to join Aikido, and she said it's because it was too expensive. The MA she joined was 5 times less expensive!

Does anyone of you have a similar situation at your institution or place of training?

It's quite sad that people miss out the wonders of Aiki because of $$$$$...

jaemin
11-30-2001, 02:46 AM
One of my teacher said that 'the cheaper the
training, the better the training' I see that
you are from S'pore. I found that there are
some other aikido dojos. Why don't your friend
find another aikido dojos?

Duarh
11-30-2001, 03:11 AM
I live in a post-Soviet country, where stuff is still mostly sold at prices quite a bit below Western ones. However, I've read some of you guys out there pay stuff like 20$ per month and even less for Aikido. Is that the general situation, or is it usually more? It's simply that the 25$ we pay here isn't THAT little on my slim student's budget

:)

Duarh

ranZ
11-30-2001, 03:48 AM
My sensei teaches for free. Halleluyah for that! Well i'm extremely greateful to have met him. He's just totally awsome to just want to teach without payment.

JJF
11-30-2001, 04:35 AM
What was this other MA ? Perhaps it demands less of the dojo than Aikido. I know that 'any place is a dojo', but for my ukemi practice and for teaching beginners I prefer a place with mats ;), and they can easily cost a small fortune.

For practicing some styles of Karate, Tae-kwon-do, Tai-chi etc. you practically just need a park and a little sunshine or a medium sized room on a rainy day.

In my dojo all the instructors teach for free since it is a non-comercial club - and the monthly fee is charged to pay for rent, electricity, water, replacement mats etc etc. We get a substantial economic support from the city as well (healthy activity keeps young people out of trouble etc.) but we still have to pay around 24$ a month in order to make ends meet.

Here in Denmark very few people make a living from teaching MA's. Not that we haven't got good teachers, but with only 5.000.000 inhabitants and a very high price level, it's hard to make a living from teaching something that appeals to only a fraction of the population (soccer is the national sport). Perhaps a professoinal teacher would have more time to devote him or herself into the art, but it would also introduce new aspects into the practice if money where to change hand between student and teacher. I can't say if it would be for the better, but I could imagine a downside - for example a decline in grading requirements in order to keep the customer happy. In the end I guess it comes down to the personality and attitude of the teacher and the students.

Greg Jennings
11-30-2001, 06:06 AM
Originally posted by nikon
The MA she joined was 5 times less expensive!
<snip>
Does anyone of you have a similar situation at your institution or place of training?
<snip>


Our dojo is completely free to everyone.

Once upon a time, we charged $25/month in order to have an emergency fund. It got to be a hassle, so we eliminated the tuition.

The surprising fact is that it made no difference in the number of students.

Regards,

nikonl
11-30-2001, 12:39 PM
Jaemin: Well, actually my dojo is one of the cheapest aikido dojos around.(as far as i know)

and since you all asked, the other MA was TKD. hehe

Wow,so many free dojos....*sigh*

Edward
11-30-2001, 01:06 PM
In previous time, teachers used to charge huge amounts of money in order to teach their styles and techniques. Osensei himself gave all the land that he had to his daito-ryu teacher as a token of gratitude. No matter what you give your teacher is not enough. Some teachers especially in Europe are part-time aikidokas and usually have daytime jobs. What about our Japanese senseis and shihans dedicating all their time and lives to teach you Aikido. You should have a thought about that.

Andy
11-30-2001, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Edward
In previous time, teachers used to charge huge amounts of money in order to teach their styles and techniques.
This is because their martial art was required to save their lives, not as a hobby as it is for many people these days.
Osensei himself gave all the land that he had to his daito-ryu teacher as a token of gratitude.
If O-sensei jumped off a cliff, would you? Have you hung yourself from a tree to make yourself taller recently?
No matter what you give your teacher is not enough.
Many teachers say that the best gift they can receive from a student is that the student just keep training.
Some teachers especially in Europe are part-time aikidokas and usually have daytime jobs.
Is someone pointing a gun at their head to teach, or is it their choice to do so?
What about our Japanese senseis and shihans dedicating all their time and lives to teach you Aikido. You should have a thought about that.
So, how much money have you yourself donated to these Japanese teachers?

Erik
11-30-2001, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Edward
In previous time, teachers used to charge huge amounts of money in order to teach their styles and techniques.

Within an hour of where I live, there are at least 30 different Aikido dojos I could go to. For just martial arts training that number would be several hundred.

Osensei himself gave all the land that he had to his daito-ryu teacher as a token of gratitude.

Hmmm, I don't recollect reading that but I could be wrong here.

No matter what you give your teacher is not enough. Some teachers especially in Europe are part-time aikidokas and usually have daytime jobs.

This is a tough issue. Most teachers I know do this part-time in that they have an alternative source of income. I would love to see the art support it's teachers full-time, but, I don't know exactly how it can be done. The ways I've seen it done successfully would immediately bring out cries of rampant commercialism about how the instructor has sold out. It often seems that our community wants free Aikido, offered 24 hours a day, by professional and highly competent instructors in pristine environments. I trust everyone would see the disconnect.

giriasis
11-30-2001, 02:48 PM
At my school we pay $65/month for students and $85/month for adult. There is also a discount for couples who pay a combined rate. We also have lower prices for the kids classes.

Anne Marie

Erik
11-30-2001, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Duarh
I live in a post-Soviet country, where stuff is still mostly sold at prices quite a bit below Western ones. However, I've read some of you guys out there pay stuff like 20$ per month and even less for Aikido. Is that the general situation, or is it usually more? It's simply that the 25$ we pay here isn't THAT little on my slim student's budget


There's another issue you will face or maybe you've already faced it. My understanding is that dan fees are pretty universal across countries. In other words, you may wind up paying roughly what we pay here in the US, only a dollar isn't a dollar if you get my meaning. I have no facts, just heresay, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were true.

We used to have a Gracie school in this neck of the woods. $80/mo gave you one class per week. $220/mo got you unlimited training. Most Aikido schools I know of around here run anywhere from $60/mo to $90/mo.

daedalus
11-30-2001, 04:18 PM
My fees are $80/month (student rate). This includes unlimited attendance to the 20+ hours of classes per week. The teachers teach for free, so we pay for heat, water, power, and loans used to build our dojo, which has 3,000+ square feet of mat space, and is less than a year old. It's the headquarters of the AAI (Aikido Association International - http://www.aaa-aikido.com). We also had the honor of being taught by Toyoda Shihan five or so hours a week before his passing. I have to say, I'm more than happy to pony over $80 a month for instruction.

This area seems to have a lot of expensive dojos. The Cohen (?) judo dojo is nearby (Olympic coach Cohen whose son Mark is a national judo champ) which is more expensive. The shotokan karate dojos (who house national and pan-american finalists) are around the same. There is also a TKD place where another national champ used to train whos monthly fees are less, but nickle and dime charges are quite a bit more. Hmmm...maybe it's just that all the dojos around here are high quality. Or maybe it's the martial artists. I think I read an article about this at http://www.aikidofaq.com/humor/superiority_in_budo.html

;^)

TheProdigy
11-30-2001, 05:09 PM
My dojo charges $70/mth(less for teens/children's class). My sensei is retired, and all the money that comes in goes directly back into the dojo and art. It's amazing to learn from him, and from what I've heard and seen... $70/mth is cheap compared to most places. It's more than worth the cost by a long shot.

-Jase

Mona
11-30-2001, 06:01 PM
Hi all,

boy we have two extremes here! Completely free classes, and highly expensive ones (90 bucks, come one!).

Here in Lebanon I pay 30 bucks a month to train at the only official Aikikai dojo.
But you're right. One cannot give enough to our Senseis.
As a token of my appreciation, I'm currently making a website for the dojo. :)

Be well!

In Aiki,

Mona

michaelkvance
11-30-2001, 07:55 PM
Yeah, our fees are $95/mo (unlimited training of course), plus I also study iaido which is another $95/mo, minus a small discount. That may seem expensive, but we have a very beautiful dojo, and a very beautiful teacher, and LA rent isn't cheap. All of the dues go into rent, utilities, and liability insurance (you'd be surprised how many dojos don't have this!).

Sensei doesn't draw a salary, and what little money he has goes into tsuba and swords :)

m.

Edward
12-01-2001, 02:51 AM
Well, first regarding Mr. Andy's reply to my message, this proves one more time that in Aikido like anywhere else, there are people of different backgrounds. I will not reply to his comments as I think he did himself enough injury without needing any help. I will just say that I regret to have such people in Aikido. I thank Ms. Bassil from Harmony club as she shows the kind of attitude any respectable person would show towards their teachers, no matter the subject or discipline. I pay 35$ a month and the dojo is open 7 days a week, at least 3 hours a day. There are 6 teachers who all studied at the Hombu dojo for several years, and our shihan, who is first vice-chairman for IAF. Teachers get salaries from the association, but they are ridiculously low. I think my teachers are worth much more than that for the knowledge and experience they are passing to me. But of course, not all teachers are the same, and I consider myself to be lucky to have the opportunity to practice with such top quality senseis. I have to say that there are also a lot of charlatant teachers in Aikido, especially where there over 30 dojos in just 1 area. I understand that the students' respect to the teacher is proportional to the teacher's qualities.....

Erik
12-01-2001, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Edward
I have to say that there are also a lot of charlatant teachers in Aikido, especially where there over 30 dojos in just 1 area. I understand that the students' respect to the teacher is proportional to the teacher's qualities.....

Sorry, just ain't so. The Bay Area probably has the richest Aikido in the world. Not only is there incredible depth, there is incredible breadth. I like to imagine that there is more Aikido here than in Japan. The only place which I think might rival it is France and I'm doubtful of even that.

The Bay Area, while most known for the AANC, includes something like 16 different organizations of Aikido including the USAF, Tomiki, Yoshinkai, Ki Society, and the ASU to name the more well-known.

The list below was taken from Aikiweb and consists of 6th dans and up. I've been in most of these people's dojo's or at a seminar with them and they are quite legitimate. My apologies for anyone I've missed.

Bob Nadeau* - 7th
Frank Doran - 7th
Bill Witt - 7th
Pat Hendricks* - 6th
Jack Wada - 6th
Hideki Shiohira* - 6th
Hoa Nguyen* - 6th
Kim Peuser* - 6th
Gloria Nomura* - 6th
Hans Goto* - 6th
I. Shibata* - 7th
Tom Gambell* - 6th
Masatoshi Morita* - 7th
Robert Frager - 6th
Pietro Maida* - 6th

*On a good day, with light traffic and the wind at my back within 45 minutes of where I live.

I won't even try to name all the 5th dans we've got with 30 or more years in the art. Many of them wouldn't even be listed on Aikiweb.

Edward
12-01-2001, 10:18 PM
Originally posted by Erik


Sorry, just ain't so. The Bay Area probably has the richest Aikido in the world. Not only is there incredible depth, there is incredible breadth. I like to imagine that there is more Aikido here than in Japan. The only place which I think might rival it is France and I'm doubtful of even that.

The Bay Area, while most known for the AANC, includes something like 16 different organizations of Aikido including the USAF, Tomiki, Yoshinkai, Ki Society, and the ASU to name the more well-known.


Sorry, I didn't mean your area in particular. It was just a general statement, and as such, I believe it is very true. I have met many "senseis" like that during my travels. I am familiar with the names of several of the shihans you mention, and you are very lucky to be near such incredible teachers.