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Adam Alexander
08-13-2007, 11:30 PM
Telling the Truth by Lynne Cheney.

I mentioned it in another thread, but I just finished it and wanted to give it an actual recommendation.

It was published in '95. However, it's quite relevant. She (or he, I don't know) will blow your mind. If you've ever heard college kids spewing some of their crazy opinions that seem out of touch with reality, this book explains where it all comes from and who the crazies are who started all of it.

I've known plenty of these people (my soon to be sister-in-law for one) in my life. However, the best example was a woman who was speaking to this group I was part of. They advertised as being just people trying to do something good with no political persuasion. However, after a couple months, the lid blew off that one when this woman spoke.

Instead of being a simple discussion about what we can do individually and what we were doing individually to accomplish what should of been non-political stuff, this woman starts telling us how what each of us need to do is run for our city council. She tells us that it's easy to get elected and she knows because she was on a city council up to last year. Then she starts getting creepy. She starts saying that 'when you're in power, no one can argue with you. If you have a few members on that council what you say goes. That's what you need to do! That's what we need to do! Power!' Then she slams a fist against the table in front of her and exclaims,'That's what I did. You see X when you drive though Y? That's because we did it by force. When that gavel drops, that's what counts.' From that moment on, the muttering and snide comments that I had been hearing for the months prior erupted into shrillness and it was never the same.

I swear to God, that's how it happened. I have never in my life been exposed to a person so nutty...as it turned out, a group of people so nutty.

The book explains what's going on with these college kids. (Now, a lot of college grad adults.) It totally explained what's going on.

Kevin Wilbanks
08-14-2007, 12:14 AM
Right-wing mouthpiece and wife of Dick Cheney writes a book on "telling the truth"? That's a good one.

Here's my recommendation:

http://tinyurl.com/2ck8ok

dps
08-14-2007, 06:09 AM
Instead of being a simple discussion about what we can do individually and what we were doing individually to accomplish what should of been non-political stuff, this woman starts telling us how what each of us need to do is run for our city council. She tells us that it's easy to get elected and she knows because she was on a city council up to last year. Then she starts getting creepy. She starts saying that 'when you're in power, no one can argue with you. If you have a few members on that council what you say goes. That's what you need to do! That's what we need to do! Power!' Then she slams a fist against the table in front of her and exclaims,'That's what I did. You see X when you drive though Y? That's because we did it by force. When that gavel drops, that's what counts.' From that moment on, the muttering and snide comments that I had been hearing for the months prior erupted into shrillness and it was never the same.


This reminds me of a book that I read 40 years ago. While the people employing the tatics are called something different nowdays the tatics are the same.
Here is an example.

http://www.zpub.com/notes/masters.html

David

Adam Alexander
08-14-2007, 09:08 AM
I didn't know that she was the wife. She's an exceptionally impressive woman. Former Chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities.

Considering who she is, you'd think it was written in sort of shrill tone. However, it was all matter-of-the-fact style writing.

Whatever it is or who she is, it gave me a foothold on the world that I live in like I've never had before. Being on the West Coast for the last years, I've found this place so confusing. This book put it all in perspective.

I really got no sense of right-wing out of it. Not a bit. In fact, she talks about radicals a little, but she refers to them independant of the Left. In fact, I would call it more of a book from a moderate than someone of some sort of universal political leaning. I guess that's why I "felt" it was more cultural than political.

Either way, take it for what it's worth. I liked it.

Fred Little
08-14-2007, 09:55 AM
For my money, Lynne Cheney peaked with her 1981 pulp classic "Sisters," (http://www.whitehouse.org/administration/sisters.asp) now curiously out of print.

Lawsy me, I just can't imagine why.

FL

Adam Alexander
08-14-2007, 10:14 AM
For my money, Lynne Cheney peaked with her 1981 pulp classic "Sisters," (http://www.whitehouse.org/administration/sisters.asp) now curiously out of print.

Lawsy me, I just can't imagine why.

FL

Smart, imaginative...passionate...that's hot.:D

G DiPierro
08-14-2007, 10:32 AM
Here is the link to Mrs. Cheney's book on amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Telling-Truth-Lynne-V-Cheney/dp/0684825341/ref=sr_1_1/105-5974103-3502008?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187107654&sr=1-1). Judging by the readers' comments I'd recommend Derrick Jensen's The Culture of Make Believe (http://www.amazon.com/Culture-Make-Believe-Derrick-Jensen/dp/1931498571/ref=sr_1_8/105-5974103-3502008?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187107862&sr=1-8) for a much more in-depth and compelling critique of Western civilization than the one to which Cheney seems to be responding. It looks to me like Cheney is taking advantage of easy targets here for political purposes. This is quite common in the conservative movement as Tom Frank explains in What's The Matter with Kansas (http://www.amazon.com/Whats-Matter-Kansas-Conservatives-America/dp/080507774X/ref=sr_1_1/105-5974103-3502008?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187108141&sr=8-1). If you are looking for books on politics and culture I consider both of those must-read books.

Adam Alexander
08-14-2007, 11:27 AM
Here is the link to Mrs. Cheney's book on amazon.com (http://www.amazon.com/Telling-Truth-Lynne-V-Cheney/dp/0684825341/ref=sr_1_1/105-5974103-3502008?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187107654&sr=1-1).

Wow! I didn't get all that out of it. I just read simple observations and their history. Actually, just a report of what some groups are doing and their reasons for doing it.

I'm shocked at the responses. It doesn't make sense to me.

I did agree with one thing I read there. She did give a lot of examples. More than was necessary. In that way, for brief periods, it read more like a text book. I don't know if I could blame her though. I suppose she had lots of experience of things she's concerned about.

On reading something much more in-depth, for me, it's not necessary. I'm a guy who wants to put in my work week and go home and train. I just want to make sense of the world around me. At this stage in my life, I don't know how important understanding all the nuances of philosophies that don't really respect that I think it's important for me to work hard just because there's something inherently good (IMO) in doing so. (Would it be more accurate to say "respect that I work hard, but equally respect the choice another person makes not to work hard"?)

If I had it to do all over again, I'd of saved my time reading "War and Peace" and done something more productive. In fact, I wish someone would of just given it to me like Cheney gave me this one: Great story. The point of "War and Peace" is that freedom of choice is non-existent. Very depressing.

I think you're right, she reports on the "easy targets". That's one of the things I liked. She drew a very simple picture for me to grasp the point. I'm a big fan of simple.

G DiPierro
08-14-2007, 12:25 PM
At this stage in my life, I don't know how important understanding all the nuances of philosophies that don't really respect that I think it's important for me to work hard just because there's something inherently good (IMO) in doing so. (Would it be more accurate to say "respect that I work hard, but equally respect the choice another person makes not to work hard"?)In terms of the two books I recommended, I don't think you would have any problem with Tom Frank. His politics are very much traditional populist pro-labor everyday-working-man's advocacy. In the Kansas book, he explains how and why such people now typically vote against their own economic interests (in other words, for people who will move their jobs to Indonesia where they can pay $.73 a day) because of religious or cultural reasons. Derrick Jensen would be a little more challenging for you, since he is pretty much anti-industrial-production in any form.

Adam Alexander
08-14-2007, 02:40 PM
In terms of the two books I recommended, I don't think you would have any problem with Tom Frank. His politics are very much traditional populist pro-labor everyday-working-man's advocacy. In the Kansas book, he explains how and why such people now typically vote against their own economic interests (in other words, for people who will move their jobs to Indonesia where they can pay $.73 a day) because of religious or cultural reasons. Derrick Jensen would be a little more challenging for you, since he is pretty much anti-industrial-production in any form.

I got that from the reader opinions.

Hell, I make decisions every day that are in favor of my cultural values intead of my economic values. LOL. I don't need that guy telling me that I think doing the right thing has nothing to do with money.

Thanks for the recommendation though.

Jonshez
08-14-2007, 03:11 PM
If I may, I'd like to suggest two books.

The Republic - Plato (I haven't checked this translation) http://etext.library.adelaide.edu.au/p/plato/p71r/

Starship Troopers - Robert A Heinlein

Jon

gdandscompserv
08-14-2007, 03:34 PM
Robert A Heinlein
One of my favorite authors.:cool:

jennifer paige smith
08-14-2007, 05:36 PM
One of my favorite authors.:cool:

Robert Heinlein was a local author who lived in Bonny Doon before his death. Sad he is gone; glad he left an amazing body of work. Robert Anton Wilson and he had lively debates and exchanges on a local radio station that have cracked open a kaleidescope of ideas to many people who I know.

I'm into 'Skinny Legs and All" by Tom Robbins. There are times when fiction/myth express political/cultural ideas so clearly. This book is one of them for me.