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CitoMaramba
08-13-2007, 06:31 AM
I came across the following pictures on the http://www.saitosensei.com/ website. They show Saito Sensei wielding a short stick against a bokken (uke is BIll Witt).

http://takemusu.org/patsensei/ss/images/69_bw_sticks1.jpg

http://takemusu.org/patsensei/ss/images/69_bw_sticks2.jpg

Are these waza still being taught?

All the best,

Cito

Timothy WK
08-13-2007, 06:50 AM
Are you sure those aren't shoto he's carrying?

Actually, I find it really hard to tell just how "short" those "sticks" really are. They <i>*could*</i> be full-length bokken. The pictures have you staring down the length of the weapon, which makes it difficult to tell what exactly he's carrying.

Oh, the website calls it a "short stick"... I'm still suspicious, though. The "stick" has visible curvature, so I still suspect it's a shoto.

CitoMaramba
08-13-2007, 07:00 AM
Yes, it could be a shoto / wakizashi..
Even if it is (as opposed to a tanjo / hanbo), I would still be interested if these techniques are being taught by anyone. Thanks!

Erick Mead
08-13-2007, 08:33 AM
Yes, it could be a shoto / wakizashi..
Even if it is (as opposed to a tanjo / hanbo), I would still be interested if these techniques are being taught by anyone. Thanks!Assuming these are intended to be related -- it looks like this is shomenuchi tachi dori kokyu nage. The weight shift forward indicates a cut taken into shikaku to achieve kuzushi. The bottom one shows the ura waza at the first part of the entry and the top one the beginning of the throw shown from the omote side (with a full tenkan).

Lots of folks teach these. Of course, from the static position shown on the ura side, many others are also possible, depending on the dynamic. From the ura side, kotegaeshi or several other variations of kokyunage are plainly possible.

Larry Cuvin
08-13-2007, 08:46 AM
Cito,
In my short training experience in aikido, the only sensei I know that has the short sticks in his program is Ernesto Talag sensei. I saw parts of his training VCD where he did short stick kata when I trained with him in Mega Mall. I'm sure there are more out there.

CitoMaramba
08-13-2007, 09:17 AM
Thanks Larry.
I wonder if Talag Sensei taught those short stick techniques prior to March 2000? :D
Larry, if you are ever in the Philippines again, you might want to pay a visit to my Sensei in Urdaneta, Pangasinan.

Cheers,

Cito

CitoMaramba
08-13-2007, 09:25 AM
... Lots of folks teach these. Of course, from the static position shown on the ura side, many others are also possible, depending on the dynamic. From the ura side, kotegaeshi or several other variations of kokyunage are plainly possible.

Hi Erick,

Do they teach them while wielding a short stick / shoto / tanjo in one hand?

Thanks,

Cito

raul rodrigo
08-13-2007, 09:51 AM
Thanks Larry.
I wonder if Talag Sensei taught those short stick techniques prior to March 2000? :D
Larry, if you are ever in the Philippines again, you might want to pay a visit to my Sensei in Urdaneta, Pangasinan.

Cheers,

Cito

Cito:

I was an observer in the Megamall gym of Talag sensei on the night when he first taught the short stick techniques. It was around 2000 or 2001. I know it was the first time because he said so in his talk that this was going to be a new element in the dojo's practice.

Erick Mead
08-13-2007, 10:29 AM
Do they teach them while wielding a short stick / shoto / tanjo in one hand? Not specifically, (but then, it looks like a foreshortened view of a bokken to me, the shadow from the flash shows that his grip is extended back significantly and it easily could be a bokken, the caption notwithsatnding). The waza would not be appreciably different whether armed with the longer or shorter blade, or even hanbo, tessen or jutte, because the near arm distance defines the ma-ai.

The weapon use in the throw can be a cut or a thrust. The kokyunage that I find interesting is where the throw is accomplished backed up with the blade or other weapon tip in uchi-tachi's short ribs. If it were done as I describe using the bokken the blade mune would rest across the belly as in shihoto no kata in Eisshin ryu iai-jutsu. Engaging the off-hand in this way prevents the turn in to recover balance and re-engage with the attacking sword (although if that happened it might then become kotegaeshi or iriminage.) It also makes possible a rokkyo takedown and pin, at least on the ura side.

Conversely, it can be done with the raised weapon striking the nape of the neck after you start the throw, in a movement related to kaitennage.

CitoMaramba
08-14-2007, 04:16 AM
Cito:

I was an observer in the Megamall gym of Talag sensei on the night when he first taught the short stick techniques. It was around 2000 or 2001. I know it was the first time because he said so in his talk that this was going to be a new element in the dojo's practice.

Thanks, Raul!
That confirms a conjecture of mine.
Does anyone have any experience with GM Cacoy Canete's "Eskrido"?

All the best,

Cito

wildaikido
08-27-2007, 08:47 AM
Do people not train in tanbo waza?