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aikishrine
07-11-2007, 07:14 AM
I am quite sure that this subject has been broached before so i apologize for the redundancy.
my qestion is this, has anyone traind in both Aikido and Judo, stupid question i know also does anyone know of a place on the web that i can find out about this and its combination? i have tried Aikido web sites and the Judo info site but i only find very limited info, maybe someone knows of schools that have combined the arts or Sensei that have trained in both and teach both
again sorry for the redundabcy

Budd
07-11-2007, 07:24 AM
Shodokan/Tomiki Aikido has elements of both Aikido and Judo as does Yoseikan Budo. A lot of the uchideshi of Morihei Ueshiba were also judoka. If your goal is to learn something of both, maybe try some classes of both that are available to you and communicate your goals to the instructors of each.

DonMagee
07-11-2007, 07:39 AM
What exactly about aikido and judo do you want to know?

Paul Sanderson-Cimino
07-11-2007, 08:06 AM
You might find this diagram interesting, showing the Shodokan conception of how judo/aikido fit into the larger picture of the development of jujutsu into gendai budo.

http://homepage2.nifty.com/shodokan/images/hatten_en.gif

There's another version that I recall liking more somewhere, but I can't find it.

Demetrio Cereijo posted it on Bullshido once...maybe he could post it here too?

Beard of Chuck Norris
07-11-2007, 08:39 AM
Shodokan/Tomiki Aikido has elements of both Aikido and Judo
SNIP

I heard somewhere that Tomiki considered his aikido to be something like "arm length judo" does anyone know what i'm talking about?

DonMagee
07-11-2007, 08:44 AM
I'd suggest reading

http://www.judoinfo.com/tomiki.htm

http://www.judoinfo.com/tomiki2.htm - especially this one

tarik
07-11-2007, 12:12 PM
I'd suggest reading

http://www.judoinfo.com/tomiki.htm

http://www.judoinfo.com/tomiki2.htm - especially this one

Great links. Worthwhile reading.. and how these ideas are applied needs to be paid close attention to on the mat... but oh.. many people don't think you can learn much in the martial arts by reading.

A pity.

Regards,

PeterR
07-11-2007, 07:50 PM
Depends on who is doing the writing. :D

I think with regards to on the mat Tomiki viewed the practice of Judo and Aikido as separate. There was quite a bit of effort to develop randori methods that trained aiki techniques as opposed to what already occured for judo. That there was an overlap in techniques was a given but the emphasis in aikido is more for the techniques apart. The difference between aikido techniques and judo is that aikido is what you do while closing the distance, judo is what you do when you get there.

To prepare for my nidan in aikido I went and got shodan in Judo. This had less to do with the grade (that just happened) then the need to up my randori (in the Shodokan sense) experience. Sure the techniques are different but the lessons learnt are transferable.

Did it help. I think so. In aikido styles that don't have randori (again in the Shodokan or Judo sense) I think judo is invaluable.

tarik
07-12-2007, 10:24 PM
Depends on who is doing the writing. :D

Shoot, you mean there's crap out there too? :D


I think with regards to on the mat Tomiki viewed the practice of Judo and Aikido as separate.

I've only done a little bjj and judo and a little bit more aikido, so it's hard to have a strong opinion.

While I've been reading a lot of his writing, I don't think I have to perspective yet to have an opinion about that. I tend to think of them as the same with different distances, but that's where I'm currently at and I really know nothing of judo in reality and only a little of aikido.

My focus has been more on principles without regard to whether a technique is a or b and it seems fruitful. Of course, I think most of what I'm learning is more to the aikido side right now.

To prepare for my nidan in aikido I went and got shodan in Judo. This had less to do with the grade (that just happened) then the need to up my randori (in the Shodokan sense) experience. Sure the techniques are different but the lessons learnt are transferable.

Seems quite reasonable.

Regards,

PeterR
07-12-2007, 10:53 PM
While I've been reading a lot of his writing, I don't think I have to perspective yet to have an opinion about that. I tend to think of them as the same with different distances, but that's where I'm currently at and I really know nothing of judo in reality and only a little of aikido.
He viewed them as esentially the same also - separated only by distance. I was refering to the practice within the dojo.

This separation of practice had as much to do with the setup at Waseda University where he was specifically required to teach Judo. Originally he was teaching aikido to interested judoka and it was only later that Aikido was offered as an independent entity. Its a very chicken and egg type qestion - would Tomiki's approach be different if he wasn't originally bound by the requirements of others.

Mochizuki who did not have those constraints integrated judo with aikido much more. Still, there are olympic level judoka that I have met over the years that happily train aikido using the Tomiki model.