PDA

View Full Version : BJJ Black Belt for Sale


Please visit our sponsor:
 

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!


tedehara
11-16-2001, 01:36 PM
Recently I received the following email:

Dear Fellow Martial Artist,

Would you like to be a CERTIFIED INSTRUCTOR or recieve your BLACK BELT rank in
BRAZILIAN JIU JITSTU and/or VALE TUDO?

http://www.geocities.com/beltcertify/index.html

If you desire:

RECOGNITION of your skills
RESPECT for your hours of training
INCREASED ATTENDANCE at your classes
INCREASED PROFIT at your school

then International Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Vale Tudo Association can help.

http://www.geocities.com/beltcertify/index.html

Click the above link for information and apply today.



If you prefer not to recieve any future correspondence from INTERNATIONAL
BRAZILIAN JIU JITSU AND VALE TUDO ASSOCIATION, please reply to this email and
replace the subject line with "Remove".


If you go to the site, you can read the following:


Until now, there has been no way for many well-trained martial artists,
like yourself, to receive ranking or certification in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
and Vale Tudo.

The reasons include:

Skills were learned through alternative means (seminars, videos, etc.)
Lack of certified instructors nationwide
Unrealistic waiting time between promotions - often years
The desire of current blackbelts to maintain their elite status


Now thereís a solution. I.B.J.V.T.A., a well-known and respected organization of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and Vale Tudo instructors and trainers,
is offering Instructors Certification and Belt Ranking through their organization.

All that is expected of you is your honesty and integrity in evaluating your skills. After all, thatís what the martial arts is all about.



Its ironic that they should be selling black belts/instructor certificates and praising honesty and integrity. Or perhaps not, every magician knows that a neat trick needs a distraction.

The sad thing is that this website cheapens the reputations of the many good martial artists who practice Brazilian ju-jitsu.

If you want, you can report this website to yhoocc@yahoo-inc.com and tell them what you think of the site and that the site is in violation of Geocities Terms of Service(TOS)
5. Member Conduct
(q) engage in commercial activities without enrolling in Yahoo-approved affiliate programs. This includes, but is not limited to, the following activities:
offering for sale any products or services;
Specifically, the price list at:
http://www.geocities.com/beltcertify/prices.html

If enough of us email yhoocc@yahoo-inc.com then they will quickly rid us of this website.

ranZ
11-16-2001, 11:14 PM
or your could always post it at the "bad-budo" forum in www.e-budo.com and just let the news spread :P

[Censored]
11-19-2001, 03:29 PM
I don't appreciate unsolicited email ads either, but why single them out for retribution? Who are you to determine the appropriate criteria for a BJJ black belt?

mj
11-19-2001, 06:00 PM
??????

!

tedehara
11-21-2001, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by [Censored]
I don't appreciate unsolicited email ads either, but why single them out for retribution? Who are you to determine the appropriate criteria for a BJJ black belt?

This isn't about determining the criteria for a BJJ black belt. Its about taking responsibility. The Aikiweb discussion Disappointed (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1289) is the other side of this situation.

[Censored]
11-21-2001, 02:37 PM
This isn't about determining the criteria for a BJJ black belt. Its about taking responsibility.

For what?

The Aikiweb discussion Disappointed (http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1289) is the other side of this situation.

If you suspend your critical thinking skills any time you see (or don't see) a rank certificate...I think the results speak for themselves.

Thalib
11-21-2001, 07:30 PM
I see your point Satori.

I've read your posting on Disappointment and it is true, there are a lot of official black-belts out there with very questionable qualifications. I've met quite a lot of questionable black-belts, that's why nowadays I don't really care about rank, grade, or the color of the belt. The actions and the attitudes of that person will reflect his/her trueself.

I have a friend that had a mail-order black-belt, he did it because he wants to teach his art but doesn't have any credibility because the representation of his style does not exist in this part of the world. I understand why he did this.

That doesn't mean I endorse mail-order black-belt, I'm just seeing it from another point of view. However, like I said, I never care much nowadays for those kind of things, actions and attitudes will reflect truly on his/her skill as a martial artist.

I'd rather have that person, even my friend, not to have that mail-order black-belt actually. My friend has shown me his skill that is on the par with any high level black-belts, he earned my respect for that.

It's just that nowadays, with commercialism of martial arts, the credibility of black-belts basically became quite low, at least in my eyes. Especially when anybody can just mail-order a black-belt without knowing if he/she is even practicing that particular art. It's sad really.

Black-belt, mail-order black-belt or no black-belt, to me, they have to prove themselves first that they are worthy of the art they claim to have learned.

I've been humbled in this fashion, that's why I'm learning all the basics again and again. Sometimes throwing away all I know (emptying the tea cup), in order to correct myself. Sometimes I even wonder if I'm worthy of the belt that I'm wearing. Sometimes I even think, I might as well be a white-belt again.

Just when you think you know something, you don't know anything. I guess that's why I'll always be a beginner in this art.

Oops... sorry... long post... just speaking my mind out loud.

JJF
11-26-2001, 05:04 AM
This makes me think of my teacher who took over the dojo when his teacher decided to leave the country. After just a few years of practice and with a 4. kyu grading!

He is now a 5. dan and have been chief instructor for many years. The dojo has grown and now has a number og teachers with dan-grades, so it IS possible to run a dojo without being a black belt. If the students that come to you are sincere and you are honest and don't claim to be anything else than what you are - then you can explore aikido together.

Of course everything is different if you need to make a living teaching - then credentials might be neccesary since you will have to charge quite a lot.

Just my .02 Kr. ;)

Richard Harnack
11-26-2001, 04:59 PM
Unfortunately, there has been "dan" inflation over the past 20 years. This is in part due to the practice of when Japanese or Korean instructors would come over to the US or other countries to receive a "promotion" at least one rank higher than the highest ranked non-japanese/korean in the country they were going to. Sadly, this sometimes led to the embarrassing situation where the immigrant yudansha held a rank that it was painfully obvious they had yet to earn.

Lately, however, this situation has gotten much worse with the franchise schools who seem to promise a black belt if you would only enroll in their special one or two year $3,000+ "black belt" program. Why then should someone actually have to do anything to earn their black belt when they can purchase one through some organization or another. Actually, we sell them in my store for $5.95 or higher depending on how fancy you want it. This will save musch unneeded work.

I cannot fault the people from BJJ anymore than I fault the whole emphasis on rank instead of practice, training, skill and ability.

I started teaching when I was a Nikkyu, now 23 years later I am Yondan and am still as enthusiastic for my art as I was then. I know I am better than I was when I was Nikkyu, and, I trust not as good as I will become in the future.

Actually, if I had my preferences all yudansha would automatically lose their rank the moment they stopped training or quit the dojo/organization which promoted them. They would have to start all over again. One does not remain a black belt if one does not continually earn it through practice, teaching and sharing. Such a rank is no better than a college degree that is never used.

Since I am riding high on my horse, one last thing. Those persons who start their own organizations should automatically be precluded from receiving any higher rank than they had at the time they started their organization. This may give pause to those who want to become "10th dan" because they have started an organization. If their organization thrives and survives for 10+ years under their tutelage and their program proves itself, only then might they be considered for a higher rank. Of course, if their organization is a sham or folds in short order, they would lose their rank.

Do you think this might make a difference? ;)

Thalib
11-26-2001, 11:38 PM
Your experience speaks for itself Harnack-san. Thanks for sharing it with us.

I like the analogy of the unused college degree. We as martial artists must have a sense of purpose, a good and morally acceptable one that is, in learning the art.

mle
11-27-2001, 01:29 PM
Hi Richard,

> Actually, if I had my preferences all yudansha would automatically lose their rank the moment they stopped training or quit the dojo/organization which promoted them. >

Well, that's a lovely can of worms... organizations like Seidokan (which I believe you still belong to?) and Jiyushinkai and Ki no Kenkyukai (which Seidokan came from IIRC) would have no rank to offer their followers if that were made to happen.

> Since I am riding high on my horse, one last thing. Those persons who start their own organizations should automatically be precluded from receiving any higher rank than they had at the time they started their organization. >

Rod Kobayashi and other innovators like him had to be promoted so that those under him could be promoted.
Same with everyone who has started an organization, they may not give a lily flip about rank, but they still have the responsibility of promoting those below them and providing structure for said organization.

That said, I have shodan rank from Seidokan, and to deny it is to deny the teachers who worked so hard to see me get it (believe me it took a team!! ;)

I don't trade on it, and I sometimes even wear the belt because I got a good thick sword obi from BuJin and I wear it for weapons work.

I now train in a doggedly independent budo study group which does not award rank.

I agree that selling rank for money only is distasteful, I bought mine with time and effort, several injuries, devotion and the usual donation to Seidokan HQ.

Caveat emptor to the rank-hunter... if all you want from your rank is money, then money is all you need pay.
If you want the total package, be prepared to pay a dearer price by far, and forget about money!

I do know many truly wonderful human beings who became teachers with no rank to speak of, and grew into it even better than those who had more time to just train.

In closing, I find rank extremely subjective, and heart and experience far more relevant.
Knowing you a little, Richard (yes, we've met!) I think you'd agree with me at least about that.. if we go doing away with people breaking off, as you suggest, then we lose much opportunity for growth.

I seem to recall some Ueshiba guy breaking off from his teachers and making up his own thing, and then his student Koichi Tohei doing the same along, with Shioda, Saotome, and illustrious others.

mle

Richard Harnack
11-27-2001, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by mle

Well, that's a lovely can of worms... organizations like Seidokan (which I believe you still belong to?) and Jiyushinkai and Ki no Kenkyukai (which Seidokan came from IIRC) would have no rank to offer their followers if that were made to happen.

Rod Kobayashi and other innovators like him had to be promoted so that those under him could be promoted.

That said, I have shodan rank from Seidokan, and to deny it is to deny the teachers who worked so hard to see me get it (believe me it took a team!! ;)

I do know many truly wonderful human beings who became teachers with no rank to speak of, and grew into it even better than those who had more time to just train.

In closing, I find rank extremely subjective, and heart and experience far more relevant.
Knowing you a little, Richard (yes, we've met!) I think you'd agree with me at least about that.. if we go doing away with people breaking off, as you suggest, then we lose much opportunity for growth.
mle

Hi back at you Emily!
I wondered where you got to.

One or two clarifications.
1. Rod Kobayashi, when he started Seidokan, while he kept in his heart his Rokudan from both Hombu and Ki Society, never accepted or gave himself any higher rank. In fact I was put in a situation where I was asked by a child training with me what rank Kobayashi, Sensei was. Since Rod was standing 3 feet away at the time, and had a look on his face that said he was paying close attention to my reply, I was on the spot. I told the child that Kobayashi Sensei held the special "Zero" Dan. Afterward, Rod came up with a grin on his face and thanked me for keeping to the truth, i.e. when he became the founder of Seidokan he gave up his rank. I believe this stands in distinction to those who now advertise themselves as "10th" dan (when perhaps their last earned rank may have even been Sandan) based solely on their having started an organization.

2. Seidokan Aikido as an organization now is 21 years old. We are still open to all willing to train.

3. Ueshiba, et al who started up their own organizations and styles established their legitimacy through continuing training and support of their students.

Thus, both major criteria by which rank and legitimacy I mentioned are met. These criteria are based in longevity and continued training by the proponents/disciples.

My comments about rank being earned are still valid. It is only through practice and on-going training that any rank keeps its' validity. Several years ago I had a former training partner come through town. He informed me that he had gotten his Yondan in Japan under a particular instructor. I congratulated him on this and asked what he had been doing since. In our conversation it came out that shortly after he received his Yondan, he stopped training and had not done anything for about 4 years! In my book, he may have be awarded the rank, but he had not earned it.

Emily, the fact that you are still training validates your rank.

PS:
Drop me a line at my e-mail sometime. I will use the e-mail address I still have for you.

[Censored]
11-27-2001, 04:01 PM
Actually, if I had my preferences all yudansha would automatically lose their rank the moment they stopped training or quit the dojo/organization which promoted them. They would have to start all over again. One does not remain a black belt if one does not continually earn it through practice, teaching and sharing. Such a rank is no better than a college degree that is never used.

If I had my preference, belts in Aikido would be handled as they are in boxing. If you've the temerity to wear it, you're expected to defend it. Winner takes the belt, loser goes back to school.

I've never heard boxers give any silly arguments for the "true meaning" of their belts. They give it an incontrovertible meaning and deal with the consequences, pleasant or not.

mle
11-27-2001, 07:03 PM
RH:
Hi back at you Emily!
I wondered where you got to.

Indiana, precisely..

<One or two clarifications.
1. Rod Kobayashi, when he started Seidokan, while he kept in his heart his Rokudan from both Hombu and Ki Society, never accepted or gave himself any higher rank. >

That's very cool. I'm glad to hear that.

<2. Seidokan Aikido as an organization now is 21 years old. We are still open to all willing to train.>

That's why this inveterate wanderer and cross-trainer trained with Seidokan, very open minded bunch there. And some great teachers..

>3. Ueshiba, et al who started up their own organizations and styles established their legitimacy through continuing training and support of their students.>

As opposed to "loving and leaving". I see.

< Thus, both major criteria by which rank and legitimacy I mentioned are met. These criteria are based in longevity and continued training by the proponents/disciples.>

Understood.

I don't get the guy who trained in Japan and then quit. *shrug*

> Emily, the fact that you are still training validates your rank. >

*rei*
My teacher would probably agree with you.. in terms of character if not proficiency!
LOL!

I took this to Aikido-L where the issue can get hashed out some more, I find it fascinating.
Thanks for the food for thought.
www.aikido-l.org if you are interested, I think you lurk there at times.

mle