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Blackice
11-03-2001, 04:29 PM
I'm a beginner at the art. I was just wondering if anyone has been in an encouter which they could not get out of and thier last result was to use aikido on the drunk/aggressor etc. and how it faired for them.

Many thanks jon :D

Jem8472
11-03-2001, 05:21 PM
Hi,

I myself am newish to Aikido, about a year or so now. I have never had to use Aikido in any situation, but I have used it in lots as well. Never had to use the physically side of it. But I have used the ideas behind it to help get through a difficult day :D

I think u won't find very many ppl that have used Aikido, becuase the main aim is to stay out of trouble. I know that only one person where I train has used Aikido but that was to stop someone else picking on ppl becuase he knew a martial art (that was very funny what happened)


anyway better go

Jem

Look at www.aikido-dynamic.co.uk

Dajo251
11-03-2001, 11:32 PM
I have used my aikido in a couple of situations that were unavoidable. I am a high school studen, once last year I was sitting in the cafeteria at my lovely school when a person decided that i was in his seat. Well we were about the same size and i told him that I was hear and I wasnt going to move. He responded by pulling me out of my seat, i promptly sat back down and began eating again, so once again he pulled me out of my seat, once again i sat down and started eating,this time when he wraped his arms around my neck I put him into a variation of kote geishe and promptly moved him to the floor. From there I sat back down and finished my lunch. To this day he gives me weird looks when i walk by him in the halls

PeterPhilippson
11-04-2001, 12:01 PM
I have 'used aikido' in a couple of situations, generally to do with protecting others. In one, me and my wife were coming back from a practice and saw someone having his head kicked in by 5 lads. We dived in, and I guess our ki encouraged them to scatter. Mary, who is a doctor, was checking him over while I phoned an ambulance, and the attackers came back, one with a knife, but Mary frightened him off. That's been my usual experience: no technique but use of ki. Once I was teaching on a tough council estate and the local lads came in and refused to leave, so sankyo and tenchinage came in useful!

ian
11-05-2001, 05:41 AM
Yep, I've mentioned them on various other threads. Used irimi nage once when someone took a swing at a person by the side of me! Also used nikyo and irimi nage to escape from two burly blokes. Also did a choke on someone who had pinned (sitting on top) someone else to the floor. Was attacked with a knife once as well - moving off centre line probably saved my life. Aikido has also meant that I have stopped a couple of fights and feel less intimidated by aggression.

Ian

Jorge Garcia
11-05-2001, 01:36 PM
I haven't had any experiences like that but my son has. He started aikido when he was 11 years old. Today he is a shodan and is 18 years old. When he was a 2nd kyu, he was at a park and a kid who may have been on drugs ran up to him and started waving a knife in front of him and his friends. He immediately did a tenkan and used a kotegaish and completely flipped the kid over. As he was falling, he dropped the knife and my son picked it up. All the young people in the group he was with were totally shocked and amazed by it.
Also, about a year ago, my son was at the Galleria here in Houston. He was in the restroom and exiting a stall and as he was opening the door, he accidentally hit a young man who was coming in the restroom with the door. The guy immediately began shouting abd shoving him backwards on the shoulders. On the third shove, my son did an iriminage movement and slammed the guy directly into the wall. He didn't mean to do it that way but there was no room. The guy ran into the wall and was stunned by it. He dropped to his knees and my son took the opportunity to quickly leave.
I always caution him against stuff like that because you can push your luck but I was secretly glad that it worked for him in those situations. He works at Blockbuster Video now where they recently had a crazy (mentally ill) guy coming in and threatening the employees because he had received late fees on a video rental. They called the police the last 5 times he came in but he would leave quickly each time. Then, this guy came in the store one day and pulled a knife and was waving it around shouting and making a scene. I had warned my boy never to try to use aikido in a situation like that unless he thought his life was in imminent danger. This time, he took my advice and called the police again and this time they made it. The man was arrested for making terroristic threats and when he was in jail, they found out that he had just gotten out of prison after having served two years for a similar incident where someone had been hurt. I was so glad my son didn't try to take that guy on but if that guy had attacked him, I am also glad for his training that would have at least given him a chance.

Jim ashby
11-05-2001, 04:03 PM
It's just a jump to the left and then you step to the right. You put your hands on your hips and pull your knees in tight and then you pelvic thrust etc etc.(The time warp for our colonial friends)
This has been done to death. Let it lie.

stratcat
11-05-2001, 06:57 PM
Yes! Exactly! This HAS been done to death. Get over it!

However, there seems to be some sort of need for this type of thread (don't ask me why) in the AikiWeb community, so, Jun, why not set up a thread category like "War Stories" or the "Art of Fighting Without Fighting" or whatever? So that people know exactly where to go when they wanna read about our exploits and adventures outside the dojo, y'know?

Anyway, just rambling here.

ian
11-06-2001, 06:39 AM
We have to go over this for the newbies. I think aikido is less obviously effective than, say a punch. Also fights are quite rare now (did you know in the middle ages in England 1 in 20 men died from violence), and the instructors generally don't prove their worth by defending their life against outside attackers - not like the good old days when Ueshiba was constantly being threatened / challenged.

Ian

Niadh
11-06-2001, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by Jim ashby
It's just a jump to the left and then you step to the right. You put your hands on your hips and pull your knees in tight and then you pelvic thrust etc etc.(The time warp for our colonial friends)
This has been done to death. Let it lie.
a Yeah I got htat one... (one of the colonial friends)
Niadh

Blackice
11-08-2001, 05:35 PM
ummm for all the people who said this has been done before...etc etc should re analysis what they are saying reason being i asked a question i gave the subject a name and expected anyone with something constucture to reply. You are just a sheep following a shepard! what i mean is no one controls what subjects in the forum you read or reply to it makes me laugh that byou were still drawn into looking and reading this subject hehe.....and for ur information i only went on this web a little while ago and if i got a question to ask it is ur progative whether you wish to respond ok thanx to everyone who had somthing constructive to say I found it intearsting. :p

shihonage
11-08-2001, 05:46 PM
but but no but Sandra can listen to her headphones from nine to eleven at a reasonable volume and so i can listen to the radio from nine to eleven at a reasonable volume and then he took my stapler it was a red stapler very reliable and they moved my desk four times this month and there is no more space and i was looking out my window and i saw two squirrels and they were married kthxbye.

deepsoup
11-08-2001, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by shihonage
but but no but Sandra can listen to her headphones from nine to eleven at a reasonable volume and so i can listen to the radio from nine to eleven at a reasonable volume and then he took my stapler it was a red stapler very reliable and they moved my desk four times this month and there is no more space and i was looking out my window and i saw two squirrels and they were married kthxbye.

I think its time for your dried frog pills, Aleksey.. :D

joebann
11-09-2001, 07:58 AM
Nobody questions the application of tai chi in a real fight... why is that?

Ta Kung
11-09-2001, 08:23 AM
Nobody questions the application of tai chi in a real fight... why is that?

I agree. Nor do they comment on capoira. Perhaps Tai chi and capoeira are not commonly seen upon as selfdefencive martial arts.

Regards,

Patrik

ian
11-09-2001, 08:31 AM
I think that some martial arts are seen as effective because they can be applied brutaly (e.g. karate), whilst others are seen as more esoteric e.g. tai-chi. Aikido seems to occupy some type of middle ground where it is supposed to be practical but also seems to have this 'magical' element.

At the end of the day people like Ueshiba were complete tough nuts who would probably have been a good fighter whatever he had taken up - because he trained hard and was psychologically tough. As someone has said in previous posts - it's not the martial art, its the martial artist; and I think this is why all martial arts come in for abuse at one time or another. Because someone without any ability gets beaten up so people think, 'well that doesn't work'.

Ian

scorpioet2
11-18-2004, 09:09 PM
Good question.
But I think that your focus is in the wrong area. Its not about using Aikido IN a fight, but rather to AVOID a confrontation. That to me is the ultimate use of ANY martial art. Aikido teaches awareness, and that awareness is what you need to use to AVOID confrontation. If it comes down to actually fighting, both of you have already lost. I feel that the Ultimate aikido technique would be to never have to use it. I have a mush more powerful weapon....my mind. OR my "aikido mind"

- All martial artists serve a higher purpose: to walk away.

Aristeia
11-19-2004, 06:02 AM
Yes! Exactly! This HAS been done to death. Get over it!

However, there seems to be some sort of need for this type of thread (don't ask me why) in the AikiWeb community, so, Jun, why not set up a thread category like "War Stories" or the "Art of Fighting Without Fighting" or whatever? So that people know exactly where to go when they wanna read about our exploits and adventures outside the dojo, y'know?

Anyway, just rambling here.

I think that's a brilliant idea. This question comes up all the time and despite the hostile response it often receives, it's a valid one to ask. People have signed up for a martial art and want to know that in some cases at least it has some combat application. And if I hear one more person say that Aikido only works by allowing you not to fight I may have some sort of breakdown.
So why not an area where those that are interested in such things can post their expereinces and read about others.
The other thing to consider is that we all go through phases of thinking one technique or another is less realistic than some other ones. A central repository where people can relate their war stories may be instructive as people go through that process.
If I've decided kaiten nage is a dojo only technique that you could never pull off in the real world,then read about someone doing just that, it may well help me in my training. I vote yes!

Kevin Masters
11-19-2004, 08:30 AM
People have signed up for a martial art and want to know that in some cases at least it has some combat application. And if I hear one more person say that Aikido only works by allowing you not to fight I may have some sort of breakdown...
...If I've decided kaiten nage is a dojo only technique that you could never pull off in the real world,then read about someone doing just that, it may well help me in my training. I vote yes!

The thing is though, what are you going to learn by reading somebody's war-story? Really. :rolleyes:
I could just spin some yarn about my brother's, cousin's, neighbor's, florist being attacked in the park by a knife-wielding-insane-asylum-escapee-with bad breath, late for his flu-shot, and strung out on Flintstone Vitamins.
What good is it to you to base your training on, oh some so-and-so you've never met pulling off a kotegaeshi and disarming a faceless attacker?

In my case though, she did throw the attacker but unfortunately he had a good attorney. And she tossed him into a park fountain where he broke his wrist. He sued her for a million dollars because with a broken wrist he couldn't mug people anymore and his vocation suffered as a result. :D

Kevin Masters
11-19-2004, 08:34 AM
Nobody questions the application of tai chi in a real fight... why is that?

It's funny. My daughter (she's 4) playing with her 8-year-old brother:

"Don't mess with me! I know BALLET!" :grr:

I guess anything can be a martial art when you're 4.

:D

She doesn't actually do ballet, but I guess her stuffed pony does.

-Kev.

batemanb
11-19-2004, 09:45 AM
The thing is though, what are you going to learn by reading somebody's war-story? Really. :rolleyes:
I could just spin some yarn about my brother's, cousin's, neighbor's, florist being attacked in the park by a knife-wielding-insane-asylum-escapee-with bad breath, late for his flu-shot, and strung out on Flintstone Vitamins.
What good is it to you to base your training on, oh some so-and-so you've never met pulling off a kotegaeshi and disarming a faceless attacker?


Kevin's right, it boils down to the fact that effectiveness is down to the individual and how they react in the situation. All we can do as an individual is continue to practice hard in order to maximize our chances in said conditions.

rgds

Bryan

Hagen Seibert
11-19-2004, 11:52 AM
folks,

if you donīt like the subject, why did you click the thread ?
Let others lead their discussion if itīs important to them.

And, Iīm afraid, this matter will emerge as long as there is Aikido...

bob_stra
11-19-2004, 12:00 PM
One time, this ninja-Godzilla attacked me!!!!

But I done and kilt him gud!

HeHaw!

PS:
http://www.aikidofaq.com/stories/index.html
http://www.aikidofaq.com/stories/real_life.html
http://www.aikidofaq.com/stories/real_life2.html

rachel
11-19-2004, 12:12 PM
I've noticed that in response to this original question, multiple people have said thing about this topic being over discussed. I hope that you all realize that yes, it is not the most important thing for people to know about aikido, but for beginners, this is often something they need to hear as encouragement and to perhaps give them an initial faith in Aikido before they learn it more deeply. That said, I'll tell one of my stories where Aikido came in handy.
A few years ago my parents and I were helping to hold a dance event in a restaurant, when a drunk man came in and began to cause a scene. I calmly asked him to leave. He grabbed my wrist as if he was going to hurt me. I believe that my Aikido allowed me to stay calm and not react violently. My father stepped in and very calmly said, 'Sir, I suggest you remove your hand from my daughter.' My father's ki was very strong at that moment. The man let go and I went to the next room and called the police. I think that the Aikido training of both myself and my father allowed us to stay calm and make the decision to deal with that situation in the least dangerous/aggressive way. This ability comes with knowing that you can handle a situation without feeling the need to hurt another person.

Aristeia
11-19-2004, 03:59 PM
Exactly Rachel. People often like to hear that their art can be used to martial effect. Yes it's dependent on the individual yaddah yaddah, but why wouldn't you want to hear such stories. Aikido is a looong path and hearing how it helps other people in situations you hope never to be in can be reassuring. Particularly when as an art we tend to come under attack elsewhere. I know it's not why people train Aikido, and I've argued that point fiercely in other forums, but it is at least a component of why people start training. Bob posted links to the stories at the aikdofaq. I suspect these get alot of traffic but don't think anything's been added for a little while?

Robert Cheshire
11-20-2004, 12:10 AM
I work as a Social Worker at a state mental hospital. We have a set program of techniques we are allowed to use (PMAB). These moves are based almost entirely on aikido. I have had to use these several times on aggressive patients. Since I'm considered clinical/professional staff it almost ALWAYS surprises the ward staff when I assist with personal restraints. They are also surprised when we have our annual refresher training and I do these moves as well if not better than some of the ward staff that has to use them often. It's then that I have to remind them that I teach the stuff two - three times a week.

Jorge - What happened to the guy? You mentioned the guy may have been mentally ill - was he sent to a mental hospital? Do you know the guys name? I couldn't say if I worked with him due to confidentiality, but, would be interested to know if he's at our hospital. I work with the patients that have charges pending against them.

Rocky Izumi
11-23-2004, 09:37 AM
I just did an irimi tenkan on my dog so she wouldn't get her muddy paws on my clean slacks this morning when I put out her food bowl. Does that count?

If not, I did about 30 sankaku irimi and irimi tenkan as I ran through Grantley Adams International Airport on Thursday as I tried to get to the ticketing counter for my boarding pass to get to on the BWIA flight. Traffic was really bad. In fact, I had to do about 8 sankaku irimi in my vehicle (overtaking and missing the oncoming truck) to get to to GAIA on time for the flight. I bet those oncoming trucks in these narrow Bajan roads are a lot more threatening than any attacker you've faced! :) Even got to do one irimi tenkan as I found myself headed into a traffic jam in St. Thomas caused by an accident. It was a nice high-speed 180.

Yes. My Spanish nickname is El Terror del Camino.

JMartinez
11-24-2004, 02:51 PM
Yes, I did not go looking for a fight. I was waiting in line to get into the movie theater. This guy was at least 6'2 probably 215lbs and muscular looking. For some reason he picked on me to show off to his friends just how bad he was. Anyway to make it as simple and direct as can be. He rushed at me I guess to try and push me out of the waiting line. I simply evaded and used udi furi undo to lead his attack anywhere else except towards me. He went sprawling and almost fell face first. Well he got his balance and tried to grab me by the lapels. I immediately went under his right arm since I am a good four inches shorter than him and applied an ushiro kokyu nage from behind in which he fell backwards on his glutus maximus with a thud and to the delight of his friends laughter. He then made one last attempt to try and save his reputation and swung at me wildly a couple of times to which I avoided and simply pushed him when he was unbalanced to get him as far away as possible from me. To tell you the truth I was afraid he would connect with one of those bombs but I remembered to breathe and and use his strength against him. Aikido works. Last but not least his friends ended congratulating me on how I made him look silly. The Big Guy told me afterward that he was wearing dress shoes and that was why he lost balance! In any real street fight you can expect his friends to join in and you can not waste any precious seconds you must constantly keep moving in a circle, a sphere like my Sensei always tells me. I was also involved in a street brawl where me and four friends were beaten down by at least 16 hoodlums. Trust me there is no such thing as a one on one fight nowadays unless it is a professional fight with rules and a signed contract. People always jump in and help your adversary. Peace to everyone out there and lets keep on training as much as we can. We are here to be humble and avoid fighting. Like O Sensei said this Old man still needs to train! :ai:

Aristeia
11-24-2004, 04:20 PM
The Big Guy told me afterward that he was wearing dress shoes and that was why he lost balance! :

Hmm...did you catch his name? It wasn't Tito was it?

Michael Young
11-24-2004, 04:29 PM
How come all these fightin' stories are from Texas? :D


Mike