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aikishrine
05-12-2007, 09:08 AM
Hi there Brian again,

I have a question that might be a little out there.

Is it possible to live and train in the spirit of AIKIDO, without actually physically train in Aikido?

Just a question, now let the malay begin:)

Mike Haftel
05-12-2007, 09:15 AM
Hi there Brian again,

I have a question that might be a little out there.

Is it possible to live and train in the spirit of AIKIDO, without actually physically train in Aikido?

Just a question, now let the malay begin:)

No. Without physical practice, it isn't Aikido; or a martial art, for that matter.

Can you live and train in the spirit of Baseball, or the 500 meter hurdles in Track and Field, or triathalons, etc. without actually physically taking part in them?

No.

This question is ridiculous.

Aikido is not strictly a philosophy of the mind. It is a physical activity.

Qatana
05-12-2007, 10:36 AM
Yes. You can very much live in the Spirit of aikido without actually throwing and falling. Wendy Palmer Sensei teached a process called Concious Embodiment which is Entirely based on Aikido and the process of personal transformation which occurs through aikido practice..

There are Many organisations that use aikido principles without any mat time at all. Look up Aiki-Extensions.

Aikido may be a martial art but the SPIRIT of aikido can be applied to Everything.

And sure you can live in the spirit of baseball without ever picking up a bat ot a mitt-just apply strike/ball/hit to every thought and activity you do.Keep score. Name the path to your goal by the run around the bases.

And many people refer to the obstructions in their lives as "hurdles"
Ridiculous is subjective!

SeiserL
05-12-2007, 12:19 PM
IMHO, while I respect that the spirit and the actual practice can be thought of conceptually (mental constructs) as different, I don't think they are different in reality. It would be like practicing swimming without ever getting wet.

No, there is no training without training. So, lets all get back to training in both the spirit and application of Aikido.

Chuck Clark
05-12-2007, 12:42 PM
It's like the people that have read all the Zen/zen books and even hung around a few sesshin and "understand" the concepts of the books (of course based on their own past experiences primarily) and call themselves and think of themselves as "zennists" ....

You can "live and train" in a spirt that you've formed about the aikido that you've read about or watched but it's not the same as real training and transmission from people that "have it" long enough that the spirit you're drawn to forms you instead of you forming it. When this transmission happens we then actualize it in our own authorative way.

In my experience, intelligent, articulate people often create their own 'makyo' (hinderances/demons, etc.) by trying to control the spirit instead of realizing and being with their original authority that comes from original experience. Forrest Gump had no problem with just 'being'... he didn't have a choice.

mwible
05-12-2007, 03:58 PM
you can train yourslef to be a better person through the art of peace without actually practicing aikido, but you cant practice aikido' without practicing aikido. :)
-morgan

dps
05-12-2007, 04:03 PM
And sure you can live in the spirit of baseball without ever picking up a bat ot a mitt-.....


Certainly, eating hot dogs and drinking beer while watching a game.
A new idea for the dojo sensei.:)

David

Aikibu
05-12-2007, 04:51 PM
Now if I could just get rich without working like Sensei Paris Hilton. :D

William Hazen

mickeygelum
05-13-2007, 04:08 AM
Certainly, eating hot dogs and drinking beer while watching a game.
A new idea for the dojo sensei.


Now you know why there is not any cable connected to the televisions in the dojo...evileyes

mwible
05-13-2007, 07:44 AM
Now if I could just get rich without working like Sensei Paris Hilton. :D

William Hazen

you did not just serisouly label Paris Hilton a Sensei.....
...o god...
:P

-morgan

Michael Douglas
05-14-2007, 02:37 PM
Hi there Brian again,
I have a question that might be a little out there.
Is it possible to live and train in the spirit of AIKIDO, without actually physically train in Aikido?
Just a question, now let the malay begin:)

Your question cannot be answered without you first defining what YOU mean by "live and train in the spirit of aikido".

...do you mean it in the californian sense?

Mary Turner
05-14-2007, 10:13 PM
Just a question, now let the malay begin

Melee.

not to be confused with Malay.

a language,

Jim Ryan
05-14-2007, 10:27 PM
It's possible, IMHO. I'm new to aikido, old to music. Music is physical, too, but it is possible to get better as a musician even while taking time (a few months) away from the instrument. It's a matter of imagining the music and the fingering of the instrument oftentimes during the day. You have to be an expert already, though, in order to make improvement through imagination and time off. I've made this kind of improvement and have heard from other musicians that they have, as well. I guess its a matter of refining pathways in the brain.

If you have to be away from any practice place and you are already an accomplished aikidoka, I bet you can profit by using your imagination to recreate your moves during that time.

Avery Jenkins
05-15-2007, 03:26 AM
Been in and out of training multiple times now, usually due to injuries. Yes, you can somewhat keep your skills from entirely rusting away using visualization techniques, but I honestly think you can only embody aikido by doing aikido. It is, after all, a martial art.

I am sure you can incorporate many of the philosophical principles underlying aikido by doing different things -- after all, these principles tend to be universal, which is what makes aikido such a powerful art form. But then you are not doing aikido, you are doing Somethingthatapproximatestheprinciplesofaikido. Like Conscious Embodiment or one of the other hundred offspring that have sprouted on the west coast.

Roman Kremianski
05-16-2007, 09:18 AM
Yes, you can somewhat keep your skills from entirely rusting away using visualization techniques

Just before it completely blurs into imaginary fantasy warrior Aikido...

Commit to the mat Brian.

:)

jennifer paige smith
05-16-2007, 09:26 AM
Your question cannot be answered without you first defining what YOU mean by "live and train in the spirit of aikido".

...do you mean it in the californian sense?

Next time you come to California you absolutely must look me up.;)

onegaishimasu

Steven
05-16-2007, 10:33 AM
...do you mean it in the californian sense?

What does this mean and how does it relate to the topic on hand?

Aikibu
05-16-2007, 11:02 AM
Like Dude!!!! I totally picture myself in the barrel while I am at work one tasty wave after another. :)

So I know what you mean by Californian. :D

William Hazen

crbateman
05-16-2007, 11:17 AM
IMHO this issue would depend on one's definition of "training". If taken in the fundamentally physical way, then one is not "training" unless one is on the mat. However, since the original question had much to do with one's ability to live in the Aiki spirit without the physical activity, it is certainly possible to do so (I'm doing that myself during a long spell on the disabled list). I do the stretching, warmups, and ki and mental exercises, and I keep on the learning curve through my reading, videos, observations of seminars, discussions with teachers and my peers, and yes, even these forums. This "para-physical" approach could certainly be viewed as "training", although I think a better term would be "enrichment". Obviously, this would be a less beneficial approach if I did not have a considerable amount of conventional "physical" training prior to my injuries. One cannot learn Aikido in true fashion without the physical, but the philosophical and spiritual constructs could be beneficial to just about anybody.

ChiefDaddy
05-16-2007, 11:30 AM
I believe training in aikido involves: mind, body and spirit. To exclude one aspect of this removes you from the way of aiki. All three parts need to be present to grow.

Chuck Clark
05-16-2007, 11:43 AM
I have a question that might be a little out there. Is it possible to live and train in the spirit of AIKIDO, without actually physically train in Aikido?

When I read this question first, I understood it to mean "live and train in the spirit of AIKIDO without actually physically" (without having ever actually trained physically in aikido) ...

Since this was never clarified, many people are addressing the other possible question of: If you have trained on the mat physically to some some level of accomplishment in aikido, is it possible to continue to train by visualization, exercises, etc. off the mat?

My answer to the first question is still NO. My answer to the second question is: It depends on the level you achieved while actively training and what the mental/physical training is you are doing off the mat. It can be done; and I have actually seen quite a number of aikidoka grow in skill level physically while training properly off the mat.

I have also encountered quite a number of people that read books, watch videos, day dream, engage in internet discussion, etc. that have no real ability to actually demonstrate aikido or the spirit of aikido in conflict resolution.

It's up to each one of us to be realistic about who and what we are by "testing" ourselves against what we conceptualize about and what we can actually do in our life. Philosophy and belief systems are no good until they are actualized by action in relationship with others.

For example, Stephen Hawking is confined to a wheelchair in order to get around physically, but he can soar with his intellect and his relationships with others in dynamic enteraction while in that chair. I think he has demonstrated an understanding and application of aikido principles in his active relationships for sure.

These are interesting questions.

George S. Ledyard
05-16-2007, 11:45 AM
Hi there Brian again,

I have a question that might be a little out there.

Is it possible to live and train in the spirit of AIKIDO, without actually physically train in Aikido?

Just a question, now let the malay begin:)

Yes, this is right up there with "Lose weight without dieting or exercise!"

crbateman
05-16-2007, 11:53 AM
Yes, this is right up there with "Lose weight without dieting or exercise!"When you think about it, though, one CAN lose weight by dieting WITHOUT exercise, and one can also lose weight by exercising without dieting. If only ONE aspect of one's Aikido is enhanced at any one time, it's still progress, although admittedly not as much as if you're banging on all cylinders at once, IMHO.

jonreading
05-16-2007, 12:09 PM
To the question, "Is it possible to live and train in the spirit of AIKIDO, without actually physically train in Aikido?"
I do not believe you can train without physically performing a repetitive action with the purpose of accomplishing a goal. Since you are not physically committing the action I don't think training can take place.

I do think you can learn without physical action. So I do believe we can learn aikido without physcially training. In fact, I believe learning aikido is a necessary amendment to training, and learning may take place outside of a dojo.

For example, I do not "learn" for a marathon, I train for a marathon; I perform exercises to improve my ability to run. On the other hand, I would not "train" my multiplication tables, I would learn them.

Maybe better wording would make the question easier to address...

I also do not think one can simply take components of a piece and induct a whole. For example, I don't think you can live in the spirit of aikido simply because you do X and Y, which are components of aikido. If that was the case, I'd be a whole lot of things I would rather not say...

crbateman
05-16-2007, 12:20 PM
I also do not think one can simply take components of a piece and induct a whole. For example, I don't think you can live in the spirit of aikido simply because you do X and Y, which are components of aikido. If that was the case, I'd be a whole lot of things I would rather not say...I dunno, Jon. If one were to take your statement literally, then someone whose physical abilities no longer allowed him/her on the mat, that they would be wasting their time trying to continue "living in the spirit", or to expand their understanding in those ways still left open to them, or to contribute to the benefit of others by teaching, writing, exchanging, but should instead confine themselves to watching grass grow. I have a hard time reconciling that perspective.

mriehle
05-16-2007, 12:43 PM
Is it possible to live and train in the spirit of AIKIDO, without actually physically train in Aikido?

No.

But..

...there is the follow-on question: What constitutes physical training?

I was not able to be on the mat regularly for nearly twenty years. I would train when I could, but that really meant a few months every five years or so.

But I didn't stop training. I would practice some of the exercises I had learned when I could train regularly. I invented exercises to train my body to move in the ways that I had been taught. I made a point of being conscious of my ki and how I was manifesting it at all times.

When I was able to get back to regular training it was my hope that all of that effort had kept me from getting too rusty. I'd have been happy to find that I hadn't backslid too much.

Imagine my surprise to find out that I had actually improved quite a bit in my Aikido over those years. There were huge holes in my training (some of which I still feel the need to fill in), but I was overall much better than I would have expected.

I've come to believe that the physical training is an integral part of the overall training, but that there is more than one way to physically train. I think it's even possible to train without realizing you're training.

Having said all this, the progress I've made in the last six years since then outstrips those twenty by a considerable margin. Being on the mat is really the best way for most of us.

Roman Kremianski
05-16-2007, 01:58 PM
When you think about it, though, one CAN lose weight by dieting WITHOUT exercise, and one can also lose weight by exercising without dieting. If only ONE aspect of one's Aikido is enhanced at any one time, it's still progress, although admittedly not as much as if you're banging on all cylinders at once, IMHO.

Ok, so you're saying your koshinage will get physically better, even if only a little, by simply *thinking* about it and not actually doing it at all? :straightf

jennyvanwest
05-16-2007, 03:50 PM
This is a really interesting discussion / debate, esp since I'm just starting my first major time out from the mat (due to broken collarbone) since starting 8 months ago.

Thus far I would probably answer no...and then to say I hope there are things i CAN practice to at least stay limber until I can get back to the mat.

When I was able to get back to regular training it was my hope that all of that effort had kept me from getting too rusty. I'd have been happy to find that I hadn't backslid too much.

Imagine my surprise to find out that I had actually improved quite a bit in my Aikido over those years. There were huge holes in my training (some of which I still feel the need to fill in), but I was overall much better than I would have expected.

When I was a kid I rode horses competitively. I got pretty good by the time I was 15, placing at A-rated shows and stuff like that. I thought I was pretty great.

When I was 20 & hadn't ridden in over 5 years, I worked at a plant nursery alongside one of the riding instructors a friend had trained with. I always looked down on their group because they never held their horses' heads in tightly, rather very relaxed and down, and it looked unprofessional and sloppy to my teenaged self.

Turns out they didn't ever restrain their horses heads because it was bad for their necks, and they didn't whack their horses with crops whenever they 'misbehaved' the way I was taught. This teacher's approach in short was not massively control-oriented, but more connection-oriented. I realized right then that having never been on a horse in 5 years I would be a better rider right then and there. Maybe not ready for some big competition hopping over 4' fences, but much more compassionate, kind, connected, and responsive. Much more teachable.