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Hogan
03-26-2007, 12:55 PM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=444238&in_page_id=1770

(or: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,260881,00.html
if the above link doesn't work)...

shidoin
03-26-2007, 01:10 PM
Sounds pretty messed up!, Being the father of three great boys, I would hate for them to lose their father. I'm pretty sure anyone in my family would give what they could to save my life, as I would do the same for them. Guess she doesn't like her brother very much. but even if that were the case she should do it for the children. I would give my life for my children or my wife, but I guess people are different.

matt

James Davis
03-26-2007, 04:43 PM
Sounds like something awful happened between them in the recent past for her to change her mind. I don't think that anything would warrant letting those kids' father die, though. I think that if he passes without any action on her part, she will live to regret it.:(

Mark Uttech
03-26-2007, 05:41 PM
Onegaishumasu. This could be a pretty good discussion. My first reaction wasn't emotional, but dwelt on something the Buddha taught: That we love ourselves first. He did not teach that we should love ourselves first, he pointed it out that the sad truth is that we love ourselves first. When I read the newspaper article, I saw the Buddha's teaching in the father's response to his sister's refusal.

In gassho,

Mark

stelios
03-27-2007, 04:06 AM
As a blood donor for many years I can say that there is nothing more sacred and noble than to help another life with yours. Indeed I would be dead if someone (God bless him/her) had not given blood some years back when I needed transfusions of my rare blood type.
And of course the ones I (most people) would assist without any thought or hesitation would be my closest people, my family. It would not have to do whether I like them or even speak to them, necessarily. It would be one human being helping another. Period.
One the other hand, someone I know, went through unbelievable trouble in order to have kinds via IVF. In the end his wife gave birth to 3 wonderfull children who he greatly loves. Yet, because he is Jehoba's whitness, he will not help them if, for instance, they need a transfusion or an organ or bone marrow etc. Sometimes, cultural/religious belifs can distort the acute human-like vision of one's heart/soul and lead to paths morally unjustifiable. We will not be in a position to know the full story behind the reported article but whatever the case to assist is human and presumably to err is human as well.

hapkidoike
03-28-2007, 07:32 PM
Sometimes, cultural/religious belifs can distort the acute human-like vision of one's heart/soul and lead to paths morally unjustifiable. We will not be in a position to know the full story behind the reported article but whatever the case to assist is human and presumably to err is human as well.

How is her position morally unjustifiable? If someone does not want to undergo a medical procedure, for whatever reason religious or otherwise, why are they morally compelled to?

Just curious.

stelios
03-29-2007, 05:04 AM
Just for the sake of argument, ok?
Imagine yourself (or your child) in the shoes of the guy that needs the transplant. Imagine yourself (or your child) about to die. Try to imagine you (or your child) are really about to die!
Then try and imagine one single reason that can justify the non-compliance of the woman mentioned. Can you really?

happysod
03-30-2007, 08:24 AM
Then try and imagine one single reason that can justify the non-compliance of the woman mentioned. Can you really?No problem disagreeing with you at all here - what you're advocating is that people should be forced into offering their own bodies up for a medical procedure if it benefits another.

Currently, you'd talking about a nice black and white situation where the evil sister is heinously preventing her saintly sick brother from living for reasons you cannot countenance! But why stop there? Prisoners with a spare kidney? Why waste money keeping them locked up, if their offences are only minor just whip out a kidney and society will call it quits.

One you accept that a persons body is no-longer their own and that societal pressure (whether enforced by law or just by custom) can be used to justify what is essentially a theft of their own personal property you cease to regard people as human beings and reduce them to commodities. It's a cliff which is waiting for us to fall off - look at the roaring trade in black market babies, organ spares and cadavers, many of which are intended for the Western world.

I may not agree with the ladies position, but I will happily fight for her right to make it.

Mark Uttech
03-30-2007, 09:10 AM
Referring back to my post #4, I need to fix the statement. I saw the Buddha's teaching that we love ourselves first in the sister's refusal, AND in the brother's response to the sister's refusal. My original post (now that I have reread it) was mixed up because the family's father isn't in the story.

In gassho

Mark

Lorien Lowe
04-02-2007, 12:55 AM
Something very bad must have happened between the two.

stelios
04-02-2007, 03:19 AM
Ian you have gone completely wrong, man.
I stated that one human being must help another at any cost and you went on to paint my sentences with racist comments I never made and the sort. I wonder why...

happysod
04-02-2007, 03:32 AM
Stelios - racist statement? Where did I refer to race?

Dirk Hanss
04-02-2007, 04:21 AM
I stated that one human being must help another at any cost and you went on to paint my sentences with racist comments I never made and the sort. I wonder why...
Dear Stelios,
while I understand your feelings, I am astonished how you react on that yellow press story.
Given that story, I do not understand the sister either, but I cannot condemn her without getting full serious information.
It seems as if she has given marrow already once and it did not help. Other than in blood donor, her it is really at her risk. Whatever reason she has, I don't know their value, unless I have heard them and she is not in charge to justify her her decision to me or the public.

Your postulatioon "that one human being must help another at any cost" sound heroic, but do you mean this seriously. Blood donor is not really a sacrifice - at any cost. Unless you are working at least 16 hours a day, eating only a minimum of at most 1000 kcals per day cheap oat soup, and you can think about much more you can do, while people ar starving and dying by simple to heal deseases, there is still something, you could do.

I do not demand this from you, I just wonder why you judge over others based on a rule, you obviously do not fulfill yourself. Otherwise you would not be able to write here.

Again, I do not understand her either, but it is a weird discussion based on yellow press junk stories, missing a lot of information and leaving us unable to verify.

And what Ian said was nothing else than illustrate the consequences of your requests - maybe a little bit exaggerated - before your last post.

Best regards

Dirk