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Nick P.
03-25-2007, 08:59 PM
Has this been mentioned yet?
Have the perpetrators been lashed?

http://budogu.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page62.html

Now, if only we could get some custom ones of all the AikiWeb celebrities (Jun, Lynn, etc, etc.... ;)

crbateman
03-25-2007, 10:17 PM
Saw a thread about it somewhere a while ago. I don't think it was here. As I recall, the opinions as to whether it was disrespectful varied across the board. My personal opinion is that I prefer more dignified likenesses, but I don't think it was meant to be an affront to O'Sensei or Aikido. I suppose a lot would depend on whether it was treated in a respectful manner by the possessor.

gdandscompserv
03-25-2007, 10:39 PM
The instructor of a dojo I occasionally train at told me it was rude to use Osensei's photo as an avatar in a forum. Not sure where he got that idea from.

sefie
03-25-2007, 10:51 PM
I lol'ed. Then kicked myself for being disrespectful. :rolleyes:

tarik
03-25-2007, 11:18 PM
Has this been mentioned yet?
Have the perpetrators been lashed?

http://budogu.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page62.html


You're welcome to try.

;)

PS - I prefer wet noodles. Al dente.

maxwelljones
03-26-2007, 12:41 AM
Oh, we've got bobbleheads in the likeness of all our personal heroes, from home-run kings to nuclear physicists, and now great budoka. It's all in good spirits, I think.

tarik
03-26-2007, 12:47 AM
Saw a thread about it somewhere a while ago. I don't think it was here.

I think I might still have a copy of the original thread in which the concept was thought up.

...but I don't think it was meant to be an affront to O'Sensei or Aikido.

It doesn't really matter how it was meant, does it? It matters how people take it.

I suppose a lot would depend on whether it was treated in a respectful manner by the possessor.

Is that what matters? How a doll is treated?

crbateman
03-26-2007, 01:34 AM
The instructor of a dojo I occasionally train at told me it was rude to use Osensei's photo as an avatar in a forum. Not sure where he got that idea from.I am about Aikido and books about Aikido. O'Sensei was a prolific reader, and this is the only photo I have seen of him reading, so I use it out of profound respect. I think he would understand.

crbateman
03-26-2007, 01:43 AM
It doesn't really matter how it was meant, does it? It matters how people take it.I think intent would be relevant, yes.

Is that what matters? How a doll is treated?A doll is a likeness. Like any other effigy, display in an unseemly fashion might be considered disrespectful.

tarik
03-26-2007, 02:14 AM
I think intent would be relevant, yes.

Relevant in what way? It's not like anyone can do anything to recall the product and each person who purchases one has their own intent.

Roman Kremianski
03-26-2007, 06:35 AM
http://budogu.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page62.html

Haha, that's pretty awsome.

crbateman
03-26-2007, 07:20 AM
Relevant in what way? It's not like anyone can do anything to recall the product and each person who purchases one has their own intent.Whether "anyone can do anything" is beside the point. Before I get upset about something, I try to gauge whether the person responsible intended it in a hurtful way. Don't you? This thread began with a blanket indictment of the creators of the bobblehead, not the consumers. I only stated that I didn't think they meant anything disrespectful, but that my personal inclination was for a more dignified likeness. Nothing more, nothing less.

Nick P.
03-26-2007, 07:59 AM
PS - I prefer wet noodles. Al dente.

Funny, I was going to say"....with steaming-hot Soba!", but figured that was over the top.

In hindsight the addition of some smileys might have added the levity I was striving to demonstrate.

No offense intended.

RoyK
03-26-2007, 08:15 AM
I think it's cute and obviously wasn't intended to be offensive, but I wouldn't buy it.

However, if someone who is offended by it would like to take the time and write a complaint to the company that sells/produces it, I'd be interested to hear what they would have to say.

Roman Kremianski
03-26-2007, 11:46 AM
I think they would write to complain that the bobble head's center of gravity is in it's head and not in the center, thus screaming an insult at O-Sensei's life work...:o

jennyvanwest
03-26-2007, 08:45 PM
I think they would write to complain that the bobble head's center of gravity is in it's head and not in the center, thus screaming an insult at O-Sensei's life work...:o

Good one, Roman!

Peter Boylan
03-26-2007, 10:35 PM
Although Tarik has graciously taken the responsibility for the creation of the O'Sensei bobblehead, I can't let him have it all. The idea sprang from the collected minds of the Aikido-L and was implemented by yours truly, Peter Boylan. It is meant has celebration of Ueshiba and his budo. My eventual plan is to have one for many of the major figures of budo, including Gichin Funakoshi, Jigoro Kano and Nakayama Hakudo.

No direspect was intended. I got one call from an outraged American 6th dan who took it upon himself to be insulted for the Ueshiba family and all of Aikido. On the other hand, I gave one to a Japanese 8th dan, and word is he has it displayed in his dojo with a note telling people where he got it. Invariably, the Japanese teachers who have seen the bobblehead found it amusing and liked it.

The only explanation anyone has ever given me for the bobblehead possibly being insulting is that it doesn't treat Ueshiba and Aikido with the proper reverence. This only suggests to me that they missed the Ueshiba's comment about practicing Aikido joyfully, and that they've never spent any real time in a dojo in Japan. None of the Japanese teachers I know and train with take themselves too seriously. Maybe we shouldn't either.

Just as a note, there have been a bunch of stories posted to Aikido-l by people who bought one for themselves and were afraid to show them to their teachers. When their teachers saw the by accident, the teachers all said they liked it, or that they want one!

As for the dolls of Jun, there used to be a really nice one available in Japan, but I can't seem to find it on the web anymore.

Peter "the Budo Bum" Boylan

PS. I've still got a few bobbleheads if anyone would like one!

Kevin Wilbanks
03-26-2007, 11:43 PM
I think it's funny. I submit that anyone who makes a fuss about how disrespectful it is doesn't get the first thing about the principles of Aikido. Think about it.

Anyway, it's interesting that my first thought was the same as Roman's joke. It just seemed jarring to me to see an image of O'Sensei with a huge, elevated head. I think this is compounded by the design. The neck length is exaggerated even more than the head - so much so that it barely even looks attached to the body. Aesthetically, as bobbleheads go, I give it a D.

tarik
03-27-2007, 12:32 AM
I think it's funny. I submit that anyone who makes a fuss about how disrespectful it is doesn't get the first thing about the principles of Aikido. Think about it.

Kevin, you just hit on exactly why the idea was proposed.

I confess that Peter takes some of the fun out of being a provocateur by explaining everything. While I still lay claim to proposing the idea, it was most certainly he who deserves FULL credit for implementing it with the support of a lot of people on aikido-l who participated in design reviews and promised to buy some (I did research having a single one made for myself before he decided to go for it).

1 sits in a place of honor on a window sill in my great room at home. The other remains boxed for the day I have a place in my own dojo to put it.

Tarik

Chuck.Gordon
03-27-2007, 02:40 AM
I know of a couple of Old Mori bobbleheads on various kamiza that get decorated seasonally ... shamrocks and a leprechuan hat for St Paddy's Day, for example ...

Mine sits on a handy shelf in the kitchen and Em and I periodically switch around his props. He wore an origami kabuto for a while, and he was cradling an apparently totally exhausted Spiderman recently.

Rupert Atkinson
03-27-2007, 03:25 AM
Methinks there be a strong link from this thread to the Future of Aikido thread...

Chuck.Gordon
03-27-2007, 08:10 AM
Just checked at lunchtime. Mori's cuddling a tiny, fluffy blue teddy bear this week.

Choku Tsuki
03-27-2007, 12:43 PM
A Katherine Hepburn bobblehead would be disrespectful.