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Andrew Prochnow
03-21-2007, 09:49 PM
I'm going to start this thread off with a few questions for Ron, Mark M, Mark C, Murray M, Stan and Tim.

We have all read about your encounter with Dan (some with Mike and Ron also).
What I want to know is after meeting Dan working with him and experiencing what he and some others are doing, how do you feel this Internal Power can be used in your Aikido? To what degree do you believe using this Internal Power is necessary or relevant in Aikido? As a result from being exposed to this, What would YOU like to see happen in Aikido today?

Best,
Andrew Prochnow

DH
03-22-2007, 08:21 AM
Hah!!
I just saw this. For you guys who don't make the connection -Andy was the big, sweet, 26 yr. old. guy who was helping out.
Dan

MM
03-22-2007, 09:02 AM
Hi Andrew,

You're asking the easy questions of us.

Q2: To what degree do you believe using this Internal Power is necessary or relevant in Aikido?

IMO, the internal skills are very necessary and relevant.

Q1: What I want to know is after meeting Dan working with him and experiencing what he and some others are doing, how do you feel this Internal Power can be used in your Aikido?

To some, I think they can view this in a different way. If you define aiki as matching energy, then what the internal skills do is allow you to do just that without having to "effect" the other person. Without any external attempt at influencing the other person, one can still be aiki.

Q3: As a result from being exposed to this, What would YOU like to see happen in Aikido today?

The training methodology for developing these skills added to the syllabus. Doesn't mean that all class can be spent on training internal, but those that want to do it at home, can. Those that don't want to, don't have to. You get out of aikido what you put into it.

But, you're missing the hard questions. How do you integrate this training into an organization? How do you introduce it to the organization in the first place? Once there, do you introduce it to shihan first and let it filter down? to everyone at once? How do you fit it into the syllabus? Do you offer special classes for the training? What basis do you use to promote people? What kind of ramifications well be seen by the introduction? Address each of these problems for the varying organizations and countries. It's a nightmare to even think about.

For those in smaller places, what do you do? How do you do it? What happens in a year or so when the technical skill becomes apparent to the organization? etc.

I'm very new to the internal skills and I'm still trying to wrap my mind/body around the exercises. I have just started thinking about the ramifications and it's a headache.

Mark

M. McPherson
03-22-2007, 09:21 AM
Hi Andy,

I'm not very qualified to answer from the aikido perspective, as I left the art years ago (although I'll qualify that to say that I think that what Dan and you guys are doing *is* aikido...so from that angle, I hope to be doing aikido again someday). I train(ed) Uechi Ryu...but am taking time off to work on this stuff. I'm also starting to look into some arts that are a bit more, ah, comprehensive, and closer to the ground.
I'm really just posting to say thanks for taking the time to work with us. From the people there (us new folks) I've spoken or emailed with, there is uniform agreement as to not only how good all of you are, but how damned friendly and giving all of you were/are, too. As has been said, given how capable you all are, you people have no business being so damned nice. The nerve of you guys, operating a dojo with no ego, none of that required intimidation factor, or sucking up to rank...
So, again, my sincere thanks to you.

As for your questions, I'll answer them anyway. First, I think this stuff is integral to aikido. If Ueshiba could do it, and some of his students either approximated it or could do it outright, why not everyone? If the koryu model of trying to get the student to approximate if not pass the teacher's ability can hold true (I know, not always the case), why not in aikido? Without it, as has been mentioned here, aikido is not an internal art, and is only a questionably effective form of jujutsu.
Who knows if the current aikido power structure (in whatever organization) will ever embrace this stuff. My opinion is, sadly, that they won't. I think you'll see folks within aikido embrace this stuff, hopefully get good at it...only to be either marginalized at the fringe, or leave outright. Some real schismatic fodder, in other words. As necessary as this stuff is, it's too challenging to the current aikido world view. Maybe in a generation or two...

Franco
03-22-2007, 03:24 PM
I don't mean to meddle with a semi-private thread, but how does one begin training this internal strength? Or maybe I should ask: can a regular nobody like me get initiated in this without first needing for the Dan Hardens of the world (of which there seem to be few) to attempt to get some shihans to buy into this, and for the shihans to actually want to listen to someone who is an outsider to their organization (which might never happen), and for them to make up their minds to incorporate this internal training in their organization's curriculum (which might also never happen), and for the knowledge to slowly trickle down to me? (<---that must be the longest question I ever asked)

Ron Tisdale
03-22-2007, 03:44 PM
Hi Franco,
Nothing to suggest really...perhaps when someone from the Aunkai, or when Mike Sigman is near your area, make sure to go see them. Learn what you can, and train hard. No worries about messing in the thread...perfectly acceptable.

Hi Andy, you don't seem so big online! ;)

I'm not really worried about all of aikido. I just go to keiko and do the best *I* can do at that moment. There are a lot of things in the world I don't like, such as the situation in Darfor, or the war in Iraq...but I can't do much about them either. So I try to buckle down and deal with me...or maybe my neighbor, or the kid getting hasselled on the street right in front of me. That is more managable.

I think these skill are important to how I see aikido...how others see it is again not that crucial...they either get it or they don't when they feel it. The biggest problem again is me...will *I* make time in a very busy life to do the training you and your mates were kind enough to share.

Like everything else in life...

We'll see :)

Best,
Ron (waiting now to make a 6:00 pm change in a LAN routing card...ooooh what fun. But it pays good!)

DH
03-23-2007, 06:47 AM
But the real goal is first and foremost to change you. You guys really hold the keys to what's going to happen. My hope is that you come and train often enough to support your solo training at home. To come and shugyo with us and go back inspired. From early on we developed a system of, testing, then training, test, train. The dichotomy in pursuing power and then doing jujutsu is that it is immediate and constant feedback in what you do. I'll even work on Aikido with you like we did that day with Ron and Mark in kokyu dosa (Aiki age) so you can more readily make a correlation. AIkido is Daito ryu no matter how mad it makes people to say so-it simply...is. So we can work on a central pivot and do ten-chi nage, or Irimi and host of other things as part of creating currents while moving. I did this Sat with an Aikido student with good results. The reason its hard to do -away from somone who focuses on this- is that if folks fail, they to often go back to what they know instead of stopping to correct. You can't have an ego-you have to be willing to stop and fix it.
Supporting your technique with solo work is the best way. When you see the active results of your solo work on your aikido mates-I think you'll be encouraged to train even harder. When you're here we can even work on a very small group of Aikido waza.

Then again we could work on some grappling too- after we stop doing real martial arts-and put our weapons down to fool around with you jujutsu guys:cool:
Dan

Ron Tisdale
03-23-2007, 06:51 AM
Got myself some 5 oz. gloves...fit like a charm...
:D

B,
R

DH
03-23-2007, 07:01 AM
Got myself some 5 oz. gloves...fit like a charm...
:D

B,
R

Ooh doggies:D
Old boxing axium
Everyone has a plan...till they been hit!
So does every BJJer. Till they meet the "ground and pound."
I have my own version of the old childrens exercise song
Head... shoulders.. knees and toes.
Head (butts)
Shoulder (throws and jabs)
Knees (in ribs)
toes (kicks to legs and head)
MMA-the great equalizer!

Dan

M. McPherson
03-23-2007, 09:02 AM
Then again we could work on some grappling too- after we stop doing real martial arts-and put our weapons down to fool around with you jujutsu guys:cool:
Dan

That sounds like it would be a blast.
Wait - did I just say that? And why can't I get the phrase "lambs to the slaughter" out of my head now?

Franco
03-23-2007, 09:24 AM
But the real goal is first and foremost to change you. You guys really hold the keys to what's going to happen. My hope is that you come and train often enough to support your solo training at home.
Dan

Dan Harden:

I just sent you a PM.

Tim Mailloux
03-23-2007, 04:51 PM
Got myself some 5 oz. gloves...fit like a charm...
:D

B,
R

Whats all this about 5 oz. gloves?

Dan,
Do I need to bring some of these my next visit? I can deal with strikes to the body, just not the face. The wife would be very upset if I damaged the goods :(

Tim

Tim Mailloux
03-23-2007, 04:53 PM
I'm going to start this thread off with a few questions for Ron, Mark M, Mark C, Murray M, Stan and Tim.

We have all read about your encounter with Dan (some with Mike and Ron also).
What I want to know is after meeting Dan working with him and experiencing what he and some others are doing, how do you feel this Internal Power can be used in your Aikido? To what degree do you believe using this Internal Power is necessary or relevant in Aikido? As a result from being exposed to this, What would YOU like to see happen in Aikido today?

Best,
Andrew Prochnow

Andy,
I really cannot answer your questions as I stopped training in aikido about 6 months ago. I converted to judo, Dan had alot to do with it.

Tim

tarik
03-23-2007, 06:23 PM
But the real goal is first and foremost to change you. You guys really hold the keys to what's going to happen. My hope is that you come and train often enough to support your solo training at home.

Go to the well.

Supporting your technique with solo work is the best way. When you see the active results of your solo work on your aikido mates-I think you'll be encouraged to train even harder. When you're here we can even work on a very small group of Aikido waza.

Amen. Most people don't have the willpower to sustain the solo work though, even when they believe and want the results. It builds, though.

Tarik

Andrew Prochnow
03-23-2007, 06:49 PM
Whats all this about 5 oz. gloves? Tim Mailloux


Tim if you want things to be interesting bring some gloves. If you dont have any you can use mine or maybe Dans.

As for Ron, what you read above is true. They do make 5oz gloves my size. Hope to see you guys soon.

see you on the mat

Andrew Prochnow

DH
03-23-2007, 06:57 PM
Hey now
I thought the idea was how to put these skills back into your aikido?
I was hoping to help show you that with the addition of these skills and creation of actual aiki instead of that stuff you guys "call" aiki -you guys can start to kick ass WITH Aikido against an increased level of attacks.
Now everyone wants to do MMA?
What's next? Knife and twin sticks?
Hhmmm....
Must be Andy's influence.

Dan

MM
03-23-2007, 08:05 PM
Hey now
I thought the idea was how to put these skills back into your aikido?
I was hoping to help show you that with the addition of these skills and creation of actual aiki instead of that stuff you guys "call" aiki -you guys can start to kick ass WITH Aikido against an increased level of attacks.
Now everyone wants to do MMA?
What's next? Knife and twin sticks?
Hhmmm....
Must be Andy's influence.

Dan

Well, I am also training in kali/silat. :)

Mark

Ron Tisdale
03-24-2007, 07:22 AM
Hey guys,

It was a joke.... :D

B,
Ron

Edwin Neal
03-25-2007, 04:54 AM
what kind of internal power (ki developement) are we talking about? is it very much more powerful and different from "traditional" ibuki and ki no taiso? i am a late commer to this discussion of "internal power... i don't think it is absent in some aikido, and i think done properly this power manifests over time with sincere practice of the waza... so what are you doing that is new or different?

statisticool
03-25-2007, 04:09 PM
I was hoping to help show you that with the addition of these skills and creation of actual aiki instead of that stuff you guys "call" aiki -you guys can start to kick ass WITH Aikido against an increased level of attacks.


I'm (not really) sorry, but since when is "kick a**" a motivation for learning aikido (that is, the art created and passed down by O'Sensei)? That has more to do with the goals of people who watch combat sports than budo, and is mainly fear based motivation, IMO.

It could be the new aikido. Maybe it is aykido, spelled with a y. -Kind of like like imitation crab is often spelled with a k.

DH
03-25-2007, 05:39 PM
Ueshiba's Aikido never existed "outside" of the extent martial arts. Ueshiba proved its superiority over them by fighting and accepting quasy-challenges in training from many men with and wthout weapons.
From then to now the only thing that has changed is the abilities of the fighters who could come- a-callin
Were they alive, young and kickin I think Takeda, Sagawa, Kodo and Ueshiba would be just the type of men to be out messing with these guys. Why was Ueshiba in his later years showing up at the Kodokan to let Judo men try and throw him? Hmmm.. sound familiar?

Now it appears that many choose to "opt out" of martial challenges or even the thought of them. And "claim" superiority of vision. All while openly stating they don't care about the martial aspects of the art. I find that to be an altogether different take both on Ueshiba's life and the art he demonstrated time and time again against all comers.

Justin
I don't think you should be speaking for the motivatons of thousands whom you do not know. Many have openly stated here and in many interviews I have read over the years they that see Aikido as a martial art.
Your lack of interest or perhaps your weakness in using your Aikido against increasingly able men with or without weapons, and your warped sense of it not being a martial art are your own views Justin.

Dan

Erik Johnstone
03-26-2007, 12:37 PM
Dan:

I sent you a PM.

Thank you.

DH
03-26-2007, 09:37 PM
Thought you guy's might find this interesting and relevant. I don't agree with Jun's view that this has nothing to do with Aikido but I respect his efforts. So I put it here.
I guess this is from an art that has nothing to do with Aikido's "Aiki."
Its from Daito ryu's Aiki. For those that don't know that's just some art Ueshiba trained in..... for twenty years.

".......A seminar was arranged with the help of Horikawa Taiso (Kodo's dad) who had a knack for persuading people and was the one who organized the event. It was this event that Sagawa’s father Konokichi also happened to attend, despite his own age being over fifty. “My father described how Takeda would have people twist his arms behind his back, but all were defeated one after another. My father tried to take Takeda’s legs from out under him. He was promptly crushed by one of Takeda’s knees, almost like he was crushing a frog. He remembered his own demise as being the most unsightly out of all the participants. Takeda also had one person grab the lining on his sleeve, which he said resulted in the person quickly being lifted overhead. Looking on it now, that’s probably an amateur’s take on it. Takeda most likely took advantage of the moment their bodies intersected (ire chigai), smoothly entered and then lifted the person up into the air.”

In any event this was an incredible teacher, so Sagawa’s father created a Dojo in their house that was about 18 tatami mats (30 sq meters) in size, and invited Takeda to live with them. Takeda spent two years at Sagawa’s house. He would practice in the morning and afternoon. Sagawa’s father being the fairly temperamental person he was, often tested his techniques on strongly built workmen at the construction yards. He tried many things, but ultimately decided the techniques were ineffective against a fully resisting opponent unless you possessed Takeda’s “Aiki.”

His father then said to Takeda Soukaku that he “would rather learn Aiki than technique.” Sagawa’s father said at the time that “Takeda’s Aiki is simply mysterious. That skill is definitely one that has been “absorbed” to his body and maybe he is the only one who can do it.” Despite that, time passed and his father received his Kyoujudairi (instructor permit) on March 28, 1914. Sagawa’s father happened to be the Kyojudairi when Yoshida Koutarou (who would later teach the Oyama Kyokushinkai association Daitoryu) brought Ueshiba Morihei to the Kuta Inn. Ueshiba, having already being confident of his skills acted rather arrogant in front of the “country bumpkin martial artists.” So Takeda Sokaku put numerous techniques on him so vigorously that Ueshiba shed tears because of the pain, something that Takeda himself liked to recall. Ueshiba, having experienced Takeda’s skill promptly immersed himself in the study of this Bujutsu. "

Worthy of note are the "trying to take Takeda's legs out from under him, Trying to throw him and twist up his arms." These along with many many other accounts of his life with Judoka and jujutsuka and bandits he killed clearly demonstrated he was not zoned out on mushrooms and farting golden clouds in the garden out back. He and others who trained with him-including Ueshiba- were squarely concerned with "real skills," applicable skills. Not some cooparative playtime of meeting-energies called "aiki." One could easily draw comparisons to Horikawa (Kodo) and Sagawa (Yukioshi) sons of the men mentioned above who in their seventies and eighteirs were throwing Judo men.
Real skills from real men.
Kinda sounds Chinese eh guys?
Cheers
Dan

DH
03-26-2007, 11:46 PM
Dan:

I sent you a PM.

Thank you.
Got a group of guys coming Sat I sent you a P.M back

DH
03-27-2007, 06:21 AM
what kind of internal power (ki developement) are we talking about? is it very much more powerful and different from "traditional" ibuki and ki no taiso? i am a late commer to this discussion of "internal power... i don't think it is absent in some aikido, and i think done properly this power manifests over time with sincere practice of the waza... so what are you doing that is new or different?

I dunno Edwin
I'll write back in a few years after I've met more Aikido teachers. I haven't felt much so far. Sure seems a lot of their students aren't even headed in the right direction. Maybe they just haven't been listening to their teachers.
Here's an Aiki masters take on Waza as as a means to get you there.

Sagawa
"Training must be done EVERYDAY for the rest of your life. That is the meaning of "Shugyo." No matter how much muscle you think you aren't using (you're only misleading yourself.) The true execution of Aiki requires an enormous amount of solo training to condition the body (Tanren). It is not easy to attain.
You won't be able to manifest Aiki unless you continue tanren of the body everyday for decades. You must train the body, ponder and have the techniques "seep out" from the body itself. Even if you train everyday all the while changing yourself, it will take at least 20 years. Ten years or so isn't nearly enough time.
Your body has to truly be ready; otherwise no matter what you do you won't be able to do "Aiki."

Mike Sigman
03-27-2007, 07:07 AM
I dunno Edwin
I'll write back in a few years after I've met more Aikido teachers. I haven't felt much so far. Sure seems a lot of their students aren't even headed in the right direction. Maybe they just haven't been listening to their teachers.
Here's an Aiki masters take on Waza as as a means to get you there.

Sagawa
"Training must be done EVERYDAY for the rest of your life. That is the meaning of "Shugyo." No matter how much muscle you think you aren't using (you're only misleading yourself.) The true execution of Aiki requires an enormous amount of solo training to condition the body (Tanren). It is not easy to attain.
You won't be able to manifest Aiki unless you continue tanren of the body everyday for decades. You must train the body, ponder and have the techniques "seep out" from the body itself. Even if you train everyday all the while changing yourself, it will take at least 20 years. Ten years or so isn't nearly enough time.
Your body has to truly be ready; otherwise no matter what you do you won't be able to do "Aiki."Training hard everyday in a subject many people are even sceptical exists or sceptical that it applies in Aikido, *an art they're already 'teaching'* is only going to happen with a few, Dan. I think the few that have the drive and interest have, for the most part, already stepped up. I.e., I think the law of diminishing returns is already in effect; my interest in bandying and negotiating with the masses is fading out.

Good posts, though. That's the kind of information about Japanese perspectives on these skills I was looking for.

Regards,

Mike

DH
03-27-2007, 07:30 AM
Training hard everyday in a subject many people are even sceptical exists or sceptical that it applies in Aikido, *an art they're already 'teaching'* is only going to happen with a few, Dan. I think the few that have the drive and interest have, for the most part, already stepped up. I.e., I think the law of diminishing returns is already in effect; my interest in bandying and negotiating with the masses is fading out.

Good posts, though. That's the kind of information about Japanese perspectives on these skills I was looking for.

Regards,

Mike
Yeah but you were right on many points. Not the least of which was helping and also talking about it a bit more. I never showed outsiders and after finally giving in- I've met some of those who are like us; sincere researchers. Your model of "Teaching those who were like yourself years ago." So It is a good start for the other sincere researchers out there. I was also one of the ones who thought this knowledge was -only-in their art. I had no idea it was in the asian arts in general. So that was another great piece of information.

I know what you mean about the diminishing returns. But I'm not really talking to them any more. I talk through them, past them, to the ones who have ears to hear.
Odd that of the many now coming every almost every week, none would ever go back to either the way they thought about movement or the way they practiced waza.
I'd only hope to encourage you- like you have encouraged (yeah right-prodded, chastized, beat over the head:cool: ) others, and start to help some local guys without pressing on your time too much.

In the end I'll be the first to say thanks for being another voice-even when I wanted to throw a chair at ya.......And don't give up!!!

Mike Sigman
03-27-2007, 07:44 AM
I was also one of the ones who thouth it was -only-in their art. I had no idea it was in Chinese arts, so that was another great piece of information. I made the same error and for a long time. Yet, the clues were there. All the arts talk about qi, Heaven and Earth, the mind, etc. I never analysed it at the time I was wrong, but I think I was thinking that "they were talking about some other kind of qi/ki, not the Real Stuff (tm) which is in my own art." It's BS..... this stuff has been around so long that the same codified statements and tenets have become part of the lore of almost all the arts. That takes a LONG time to have come into effect. In the last year or two I've had to constantly push back not only when this stuff was first in the Chinese' hands, but also when it was first in the Japanese hands... I think again that my first impressions were wrong and that it has been around far longer than I originally thought. The A-Un statues are a strong clue that this stuff was probably in Japan around 2,000 years ago. I know what you mean about the diminishing returns. But I'm not really talking to them any more. I talk through them, past them, to the ones who have ears to hear. Then you did most of your job. You don't have to nursemaid the hungry ones. In the end I'll be the first to say thanks for being another voice-even when I wanted to throw a chair at ya. And don't give up!!!There's an old sign that some business people used to hang on their wall in their office: "Make a Buck". Whatever you do, large or small, you have to make a buck for yourself.

I personally go where there's information exchange and I got a lot from some of the better people on this forum... but that seems to have dried up. Rob is going to where there's more "ack-shun" in his way and I'm going to places where I can get more information. I think a lot of the discussion is now headed back to the "let's talk about this for a few more years" mode. Been there; done that. It's archived. ;)

Best.

Mike

Thomas Campbell
03-27-2007, 02:26 PM
My work here is done. ;)

Mike Sigman
03-28-2007, 06:52 AM
My work here is done. ;)"Our work here is done, Tonto"

"Ahnnnnnnn.... that right, Kimo Sabe".

Da...dadaDa...dadaDA!

Ron Tisdale
03-28-2007, 07:39 AM
Ah, Kimo Sabe ... someone once told me that meant sh**head in some native american language... :D

b,
r

Robert Rumpf
03-28-2007, 08:31 AM
Ah, Kimo Sabe ... someone once told me that meant sh**head in some native american language... :D

For what its worth, http://www.old-time.com/misc/kemo.html

MM
03-28-2007, 11:41 AM
Well, Ron, since you're guiding us back to on-topic ...

Question for those who do solo training. What would you say is a good length of time each day for solo training in respect to beginners, medium level, and skilled?

TAnderson
03-28-2007, 12:05 PM
Mark,

FWIW, I try to put 2 or more hours of practice in a day. My caveat is the solo practice exercises I train are not necessarily done all at once. Often my solo training is broken up throughout the day. Also, with correct mindset on internal body mechanics and manipulation of forces one can practice your daily mundane efforts continuously (i.e., open/close doors, lift objects, etc.). For the record, I am talking about beginner level training and so far I have seen progress from this level of effort.

Tim Anderson

DH
03-29-2007, 04:52 AM
If you're a beginner and you're doing two hours a day spread out over ten minutes here or there that's actually not so good. It's far more beneficial to set aside significant blocks of time where you can concentrate and burn-in the connections. Blocks of time will gve you chances to feel and focus far better then stolen moments, Then the greater your body understands the more you move with a new awaeness. And that becomes part of you 24/7. Then all day long- while moving- your body talks to you and you demand of it. So getting up from a couch turning around a corner, opening doors, picking up things or bumping into someone are whole new things.
If you are still doing martial arts if someone doesn't notice in a couple of months...you ain't doing it right. If it's been six months and they haven't noticed- get a teacher. After a couple of years most MA people should be stumped at having to deal with you.
Dan

TAnderson
03-29-2007, 12:02 PM
I agree with you there Dan. Ten minute increments don't help but if you had 45 minute increments a good exercise and of course instruction on the how's and why's of the exercise then one should be able to get their foot in the door.

Tim Anderson

DH
03-29-2007, 12:22 PM
Yup
Can't speak for anyone else but I have folks do the what looks like essentially the same things.
But group a is doing 1,2,
Group b is doing 1,2,3,
Next is doing 1,2,3,4,5
There are stages to things I do. Your body has to be ready for it or its really a waste of time.They won't even feel it, it will go right over their head.
Other things I do are simple direct things that just build over time through repatition.
But that's just me.

Talon
03-29-2007, 03:49 PM
Can someone Dan or Mike, give some us real newbies an excercise or two to try? solo excercises or partnered ones?

Paul

Aran Bright
03-29-2007, 11:38 PM
"Our work here is done, Tonto"

"Ahnnnnnnn.... that right, Kimo Sabe".

Da...dadaDa...dadaDA!

"Who was that masked man?"

"He'll be back."

:cool:

Al Heinemann
03-30-2007, 08:23 PM
Can someone Dan or Mike, give some us real newbies an excercise or two to try? solo excercises or partnered ones?

Paul

Hi Paul,

I believe that part of what Dan, Mike et al. have been arguing is that you have to first "feel" these skills before you can properly train in them.

I f you search enough you will find that Rob John has posted detailed explanations and videos of some of the exercises done with his teacher Akuzawa. Maybe these will help you and maybe, like I mentioned, you have to feel it first.

Good luck to you.

Talon
03-30-2007, 10:02 PM
Thanks Al... I did a google search on Akuzawa and saw some of the youtube videos however I did not fine and aeplanations on what is really going on or about excercises one can do to start developing these skills.

If you do have some links, please PM me .

Thanks again,

Paul

Upyu
03-31-2007, 03:09 AM
:D Thanks Al... I did a google search on Akuzawa and saw some of the youtube videos however I did not fine and aeplanations on what is really going on or about excercises one can do to start developing these skills.

If you do have some links, please PM me .

Thanks again,

Paul

Paul, the english version of the Aunkai website is up, and there's a lot of information in there about our approach, but you'll have to be willing to wade through Ark's diatribe (and partly mine since I transed it ^^; )
That being said I also did an article on training the body for Martial Movement, archived in a the training section. Do a search ;)
(Look for "Training the Body for Martial Movement")
It should get your foot in the door so to speak.

Oh, and if the exercises aren't excruciatingly difficult...you're probably #"#$ing something up.:D

DH
03-31-2007, 06:25 AM
Oh, and if the exercises aren't excruciatingly difficult...you're probably #"#$ing something up.:D

I loved the comment you amde once
"If you're claiming you do twenty of those a day:
1. You're either not doing them right
2. Lying
3. Or I want to come train with you.

Mike Sigman
04-01-2007, 08:43 PM
Can someone Dan or Mike, give some us real newbies an excercise or two to try? solo excercises or partnered ones? OK, get a "push broom", a broom with a wide horizontal head of bristles attached to a long handle. Place the wooden head of the push broom across your hips at the hip joint and the tip of the handle on your partners chest (suitably padded so it doesn't hurt his chest). Then walk forward across the room pushing your partner back with just your hips pushing the broom into his chest. Notice how it is just your hips pushing.

Then go back to the starting point and get rid of the broom. Put your hand on your partner's chest, and then walk forward pushing him back across the room pushing him with your hips and the imaginary balloon.... your hand on his chest is simply the tip of the handle that was on his chest before.

FWIW

Mike

Upyu
04-01-2007, 09:04 PM
If you're a beginner and you're doing two hours a day spread out over ten minutes here or there that's actually not so good. It's far more beneficial to set aside significant blocks of time where you can concentrate and burn-in the connections. Blocks of time will gve you chances to feel and focus far better then stolen moments, Then the greater your body understands the more you move with a new awaeness. And that becomes part of you 24/7. Then all day long- while moving- your body talks to you and you demand of it. So getting up from a couch turning around a corner, opening doors, picking up things or bumping into someone are whole new things.
If you are still doing martial arts if someone doesn't notice in a couple of months...you ain't doing it right. If it's been six months and they haven't noticed- get a teacher. After a couple of years most MA people should be stumped at having to deal with you.
Dan

Just to put things in perspective, I got to meet Tim. And for only having started these exercises a short while ago 6months I think?
he had a great feel to him. But I agree, once you get a grasp on the training exercises, you have to push yourself occasionally.

I often tell guys to start small on the solo exercises, building up a habit to do them everyday. If I were to choose between doing 2 hours 3 times a week, or 10-15 minutes twice a day everyday I'd pick the latter. As the connections burn in you can build up to doing concentrated tanren sessions that last 2 hours or more <gulp>.

Frankly, I'm a lazy bastard, and it's a good thing that at a minimum I was forced to have a concentrated 2 hour session twice a week. Then my own training didn't feel quite so bad and I'd force myself to increase the density and length of my own practice.

Funny annecdote, I was just cornering for one of my shooto friends at a fight he had yesterday. After the fight, we were sitting down in a soba stall, and since he kept on bitchign to me about "well I still dont get how come you punch so hard? :confused: Is it how use the lats etc?"
So I had my girl (small Japanese girl, loves shiny things, Louis Vitton, Chritian Dior, dyed hair, manicured nails, 109, high heels, barely tips the scale at 100lb) punch him in his pecs. First she did a "girly" punch, and I was like, oh cmon' do the one you always do, when you're pissed at me, you know? the one where you focus on your back?" and she punched him again girly like...onlly this time it hit hard enough that he got rocked back into the wall of the shop.
The look on his face was priceless :D

Anyways, just goes to show that even a little bit, done dilligently everyday can have an effect.
Even for a 100lb 109 gyaru :D

Josh Reyer
04-02-2007, 05:16 AM
Anyways, just goes to show that even a little bit, done dilligently everyday can have an effect.
Even for a 100lb 109 gyaru :D
So, you're saying that you can use Para-Para to learn internal power, right? ;) :D

Upyu
04-02-2007, 05:25 AM
So, you're saying that you can use Para-Para to learn internal power, right? ;) :D

Hey it's all about the substance right?? :cool:
There we go...new marketing scheme for japan's youth!
1nt3rnal Para Para -> ROLL THAT TaNd3n! "Spirit fingers!!!" lol

MM
04-02-2007, 07:46 AM
I'm glad I learned not to drink and read AikiWeb at the same time. LOL.

Anyway, I did a small set of exercises this morning. I was sweating and my body was screaming and I felt like a baby because I hadn't done very many.

Mark

Erik Johnstone
04-03-2007, 08:18 AM
Mark:

It was great to meet you; hope your return trip went smoothly. Nice meeting Mark. C and Cady as well!